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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> TDi Turbo issue
        
(Message started by: andyw2000 on Apr 1^st, 2014, 6:28am)

Title: TDi Turbo issue
Post by andyw2000 on Apr 1^st, 2014, 6:28am

Hi All,

I have just purchased a 97 TDi which isn't in bad condition but is really slow.
I got it home and plugged it in and it had the No1 injector fault so I brought another one which cleared the fault so I thought great it will be fine now but its still really slow.
I have checked it out and found that there is no boost from the turbo and it seems that the turbo wastegate actuator
is not working, I can move it freely by hand but it won't move via the vacuum pipes.
I have looked at the drawings on the site under engine data 2.5 TD and the turbo drawing is wrong, it shows the actuator pipe going the a pipe off of the turbo outlet like all the turbo's I can find in ebay, and the vacuum pipe drawing is not for a TDi and doesn't show this pipe.
What I want to establish is if the vacuum pipes are connected correctly so I can rule out if it is the actuator itself, I presume I should be able to test the actuator by sucking on the pipe whilst the car is running to see if the rod moves?
If anybody has a drawing of the vacuum system that would be really helpful as I can't seem to work out where the actual vacuum comes from, I thought it was from the inlet manifold but that pipe goes straight to the EGR pressure transducer (well that's what it says it is in the drawing).
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards
Andy

Title: Re: TDi Turbo issue
Post by a900one on Apr 1^st, 2014, 9:36pm

I think most diesels dont get a vacuum in the inlet manifold, the engine speed is controled by the amount of fuel injected. There is most likley a vacuum pump some where.

Title: Re: TDi Turbo issue
Post by Scorpio on Apr 1^st, 2014, 10:02pm

Faulty EGR's are a common fault on theses 2.5 td's for showing lack of power.
Adam

Title: Re: TDi Turbo issue
Post by andyw2000 on Apr 2^nd, 2014, 6:27am

Hi, Thanks for the replies, I spoke to a diesel mechanic yesterday and he told me to connect the vacuum pipe from the wastegate actuator to the inlet manifold.
I cleaned out the EGR valve last night to make sure it seals and then disconnected it, the inlet manifold was full of oil and gunk, it really needed coming off and going in a bath but I didn't have a new gasket so I cleaned it out as best I could and put it all back together.
I have join all the vacuum pipes together and blocked off the EGR vacuum pipe, I think I will add a T piece in the inlet to actuator line so the MAP sensor know what's going on but it has made difference.
I took it out last night and there was a noticeable power gain, I still don't think it is 100% but then its never gonna be as fast as my 24v although I did expect it to have a bit of a kick at just over 2000rpm.
It has made the car drivable again and it now has a years MOT, I changed the fuel filter as well last night and added some injector cleaner so hopefully it will see another year out.
Hopefully the next job will be converting my 24v to Manual, I have a box now so just need a flywheel and a pedal box, a bit of research and maybe borrow a ramp, as rolling around on the floor isn't fun any more!

Andy

Regards
Andy

Title: Re: TDi Turbo issue
Post by Scorpio on Apr 2^nd, 2014, 7:51am

Andy

Matt did a great write up on the manual conversion.
Dave is now also able to delete ECU autobox settings.
I have just purchased a manual diesel to use for my own conversion.

Quote
As it seems a lot of people wish to convert their 24v's to manual transmission I’m getting a lot of pm's asking various question about different aspects

As those who have pm'd me will know I have not kept the info to myself! However since this seems to be the new thing to do atm I though I better give a rundown of parts, my own personal setup and the wiring modifications I performed.

Firstly though let me say that this is just based on my findings and I DO NOT guarantee the success I had

Mechanical Parts needed

Non Scorpio

V6 MT75 gearbox bell housing obtained from either a Granada or sierra 4x4

2.9 v6 flywheel again from above vehicles

Starter motor again from above vehicles is preferable for 'bolt on' application

Pedal box and bearing arm if going for a cable clutch

Clutch unit (mine is escort cosworth however I feel this is not up to the job and should be replaced with a 2.9 unit)

Scorpio Related

A 2WD MT75 gearbox preferably a TD or late 2.3

Prop shaft again preferably from a TD

Pedal box and all hydraulic equipment Inc brake fluid reservoir from a manual Scorpio (for hydraulic clutch setup - this is my setup) NOTE! the bracket on the brake vacumme has to be flipped 180 degrees to get the correct off set for the pedals, i have taken some pics which will be given on request!

If using the hydraulic clutch option, your v6 bell housing will need 3 blobs of alloy weld added around the main input shaft nut so that the hydraulic thrust bearing can be bolted to the casting; also the main nut from the 2wd box must be used as this centres the bearing!

I’m not going to tell you how to bolt the bits and pieces together as 1. It’s fairly obvious once you have all the bits and 2. I’m assuming that considering your even reading this you have some mechanical skills.

Ive used the cars Standard wiring loom (the BOB one), Others will say that its just easier to swap it all the the earlier BOA one but thats the easy option

Now for the hardest bit, the wiring, as I was doing a straight swap auto to manual I had the auto box to take apart and pinch some parts out of for measurement and in the case of the EPC solenoid wiring back into the system

On the auto box range selector switch you will have a row of 4 wires in a line and a row with 2 in the middle

The row with 4 wires, the outer 2 are the start inhibit, just chop and join these two together, the middle 2 wires are the reverse switch connection

The row with 2 wires is the engine control, my wire colours were Brown/yellow and white/black, this needs a resistance of 737R between it (simulating the neutral position in the range switch)

So

Start - 0
Rev - 0 - 0 - eng
Rev - 0 - 0 - eng --- range selector plug
Start - 0

Now you have to sort the solenoid plug which is the square shaped one

This one is a little tricky but if you hold the plug so that the catch part is on the right pin one is bottom right and pin 16 top left

Pin 16
V
0 0 0 0 pin 4
0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 catch side
0 0 0 0 pin 1
^
pin 13

Right then

EPC (use the solenoid out the box or a power relay) uses pins 11 and 12

Temp pins 4 and 8 - use a resistor can’t remember the value of hand but I think it was around 4 K ohms

Lock up pins 1 and 5 again use a resistor 8.7 Ohm

Then the shift sols

Pins 7 , 9 , 14, 16 are the one side of the relays (use the Yellow ones out the fuse box) and pin 10 is the common

That the main lot sorted

there’s a little bit to do around the selector switch, just link the buzzer out for the not in park buzzer, leave the O/D switch open, and then I pulled the wiring out for the winter mode but left the eco and sport switch in as these may have an effect on the fuelling but no one really knows lol

I made up a little resistor board for the resistor related parts, for a small fee i could make up another but will only be made on weekends

My car has now done over 1500 miles since this was carried out and ive had no problems other then a wiring clip braking and allowing the loom to droop next to the exhaust, so im very pleased

Adam

Title: Re: TDi Turbo issue
Post by Simmo on Apr 2^nd, 2014, 1:22pm

Just to flag up that Matt's article is in How to do things (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1285441192) :)

Title: Re: TDi Turbo issue
Post by Matt on Apr 2^nd, 2014, 2:47pm

Do you have the cable throttle setup or the fly by wire system?

if its the cable version there is a rubber diaphragm in the top of the diesel pump that cracks and fails, this can result in the no boost feeling

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd429/Matt24v/89470415_4_644x461_ford-scorpio-kombi-25-turbo-diesel-motoryzacja_zps63a55d91.jpg

Its under the cap in the circled area. Made a note of the way it came out, its attached to a needle type device that has an off set taper on it which needs to go back in the correct way

Title: Re: TDi Turbo issue
Post by andyw2000 on Apr 2^nd, 2014, 3:17pm

Hi Adam,

Thanks for the 24v info, looks like I should have kept the Diesel for parts.

Andy

Title: Re: TDi Turbo issue
Post by andyw2000 on Apr 2^nd, 2014, 7:23pm

Hi Matt,

I think mine is the fly by wire type as I can't see any cables.

http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b524/andyw2000/IMG_1043_zps98c54c9a.jpg (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/andyw2000/media/IMG_1043_zps98c54c9a.jpg.html)
http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b524/andyw2000/IMG_1043_zps98c54c9a.jpg
Andy

Title: Re: TDi Turbo issue
Post by Matt on Apr 3^rd, 2014, 9:33am

Yea thats a fly by wire system,

In that case your car should have a MAP sensor, if this fails or it piped up.wrong the ecu doesnt know what boost your getting and limits the running parameters

I think its on the drivers inner wing with s bunch of other solenoids but best to follow the vac pipes fron in inlet back

Btw the vm has a mechanical vac pump thats gear driven off the crank

Title: Re: TDi Turbo issue
Post by andyw2000 on Apr 3^rd, 2014, 2:15pm

Thanks Matt,

I think I know what the problem is then.
I traced a vacuum pipe back under the rad and over to the bottom of the engine by the crank pulley, it had a push on rubber bit of pipe on the end that fitted on to a pipe on the block. This looked a bit of a loose fit so perhaps I can find a tighter bit of pipe and join it properly.

I was thinking of putting a T piece in where I have connected the actuator to the inlet manifold so that the MAP knew what was happening.
Do you know what the other 2 vacuum things do, the ones with the 2 pipes at the bottom and an electrical connector with 2 wires?

Regards
Andy