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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> 12v electrics
        
(Message started by: Torbayboy on Jul 9^th, 2021, 1:33pm)

Title: 12v electrics
Post by Torbayboy on Jul 9^th, 2021, 1:33pm

Need some help, had fans shorting on the motor and had rewired from a seperate feed and all seemed well cutting in and out as the temp went up etc, and after having leccy man to check the problems below are not associated with this work :)

Car starts drives ok no heater as fans etc dead no front and rear screen heaters or lights on switches for them no clock no air con no interior lights,

fuse 17 (7.5a) blown and blows again on replacing, have had a small problem with door open light, due to switch in door,seems the car has a "bad spot" somewhere behind the dash engine loom Ok and back loom OK accoring to checks today.

Car left a week battery flat, previously last week it started and ran after left 4 days, needle flick after starting (probbaly due to fuse 17 blowing as has this before) lights wipers radio horn indicators fogs etc all working as is horn.

Require pointers, suggestions (not that sort!! :o) and help to get this sorted.
Thanks for reading

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Tompion on Jul 10^th, 2021, 10:03am

Are you saying a problem with one door and interior lights or all doors.
There have been problems with the plastic of the interior lights breaking allowing the live to short to earth but don't know if it would cause fuse 17 to blow. you could try pulling relay 5 (interior lights) - wrongly listed as rear screen in the handbook.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Torbayboy on Jul 10^th, 2021, 10:57am

To clarify all interior lights do not light, the drivers door always shows open on the dash, and having queried this in the past it is Led driven, not bulb as in the granada so will not ruin the dash display. The car has functioned with this error for over a year now, and the switch in the door is hard to get at so it has been "lived with).

;)

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Tompion on Jul 12^th, 2021, 1:05pm

Roy

The wiring diagrams aren’t always correct but had a look through – not easy as info scattered all over the place :)
It lists F17 as supplying:
Instrument interface control
Diagnostic system
Charging system
(also engine control on the diesel)

So presumably blown F17 is why the battery is running down.
It shows a splice somewhere behind the instrument cluster & the wire to the cluster as Orange/Blue.
Coming out of the cluster as White/Black, shown as .5 – so thin wires. For the 12 valve engine it then goes through connector C2521 & remains as White/Black heading for the alternator.

Connector C2521 is shown as a 6 pin connector – 2 rows of 3 pins and says it’s located in the engine compartment rear right hand side. If you can't see it you'll have to trace back from the alternator.
Try disconnecting it and see if the fuse still blows & you’ll know which side to look for the problem.
As I say the diagrams aren’t always right – there could be other items supplied by this fuse.

Dave

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Torbayboy on Jul 12^th, 2021, 4:36pm

Thanks, when it stops raining will ahve a look at that,

Have a spare 2 litre on the drive with most of the dash out will see if we can trace there before we shred his estate.

::)

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Tompion on Jul 14^th, 2021, 6:37pm

It could be the alternator at fault so try disconnecting that if the connector C2521 isn't easy to find.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Torbayboy on Jul 23^rd, 2021, 3:02pm

OK so today after the rain had the blistering sun, that furnace has now gone also, so we go scorpio fixing ;D

Removed relay 5 as you mention (yellow one with base left behind) and replace fuse 17 with a 10a one, it blows :(

Car starts OK 2 times while we try this , but an old problem surfaces.. try to start -- nothing no light on dash no click sweet fanny adams, so old fix check terminals on battery and just for good luck press down on drivers side fuse box bridge link, as normal all that was functioning now functions, had this several times when car was new to us but havent seen it for along time now.

Same things not working heeater and controls f & r screens heaters and button lights, interior lights, but radio works ('95 tiny model one) heater doors half open so it's nice and warm, fans that caused it all still workin fine cutting in and out, h lights, winkers et c and horn OK.

Haven't disconnected the alternator -yet.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Tompion on Jul 25^th, 2021, 7:58pm

Not a good idea to use a bigger fuse, as mentioned it's a thin wire - you run the risk of melting it.
Assuming the diagrams are correct, ignore my first post, disconnecting the alternator is the first thing I'd try.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Snoopy on Jul 28^th, 2021, 5:41am

One ting to check is the BIG multi plug ( the long one) take it off and refit it NOT the one on the inner wing with the bolt on top. It is VERY easy to misalign the pins when refitting. Well worth checking and take care when refitting.
IMHO anything is worth a go.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Simmo on Jul 28^th, 2021, 8:18am

on 07/28/21 at 05:41:50, Snoopy wrote:

One thing to check is the BIG multi plug ( the long one) take it off and refit it NOT the one on the inner wing with the bolt on top. It is VERY easy to misalign the pins when refitting. Well worth checking and take care when refitting.
IMHO anything is worth a go.

There used to be photos of this on How To Do Things. Sadly they are no longer there due to Photobucket changes.
The fitting has two pins which MUST be located in the corresponding lugs on the Fusebox before closing the fitting down. IT WILL go down one row of pins out and thus cause all sorts of issues. It was once said that if it goes down easily first time 'it ain't right'! As Snoopy says well worth a check.
;)

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Torbayboy on Jul 28^th, 2021, 2:16pm

Hi Tompion we only had 10a fuses original was 7.5a none of those around. I take your point as wires are thin.thanks R

Mike & Dave Is this the plug you refer to-

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/fuseboxlocation.jpg

Obviously a left hand drive car, but I presume same plug
out of my depth here, really need someone to fix it.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Simmo on Jul 28^th, 2021, 3:53pm

Yes it is. ;)

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Tompion on Jul 28^th, 2021, 6:36pm

on 07/28/21 at 14:16:35, Torbayboy wrote:

I don't think that plug is your problem.
I don't have access to my car at the moment but if I remember correctly look closely at the cover to the fusebox, if the plug isn't fitted correctly the cover won't quite sit flush to the fusebox over the plug - at the corner of the cover there's a small dimple that locates in a hole, if it's going home the plug is seated correctly.

According to the diagrams there isn't much connected to that fuse.
Disconnect the alternator & see if the fuse still blows.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by brds on Jul 28^th, 2021, 7:20pm

I've just looked at the fuse charts and, in addition to the items mentioned by Tompion on 12th July, they show FS17 as also feeding Instrument Cluster,
Anti Theft Alarm,
Cigar Lighter & Clock,
Air Conditioning.
From prior experience, I can vouch for the Instrument Cluster but I haven't searched throught the actual wiring diagrams to verify the other items.
Bob

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Tompion on Jul 28^th, 2021, 11:24pm

I assume Instrument interface control I mentioned is the same as Instrument Cluster.
At 7.5 amps it can't be feeding the cigar lighter unless it's the bulb.

Roy mentioned the clock.

As he's not keen on tackling electrical problems I think disconnecting the alternator is a good place to start even if it only rules it out.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Torbayboy on Jul 29^th, 2021, 8:06am

"As he's not keen on tackling electrical problems" read "scared, apprenhinsive, unwilling" or just plain petrified ;)

Clock not working, needle flick after start up no interior lights (cant say about dash lighting as it never gets dark at the moment (or I'm asleep when it is) no lights on screen heater buttons no air con no heater controls no puddle lights.

Only since leccy man re wired the fans and added new relay for the fans (wires bad at green relay they came on when car parked and destroyed the battery eventually. wiring coming up from both fans have been rewired ,power for fan 1 is now fed directly from battery, a small grey relay replaces the big green one. Fans work as they should as far as we can tell he came back and ran a "short" test on engine loom noted OK, tried inside car under dash but walked..... :(

Since he put wiring in we have had these problems listed above. fuse 17 no longer in as it blows as inserted, will try to disconnect alternator and add notes.

Car starts (most most all of the time see july 23rd comments by me) and have all electrics necessary for mot working, all gears etc working fine occasional abs light ... but thats a Scorpio for you. Have added a trickle charger to cure battery drain (direct to battery terminals).

Thanks to you all for help in this help to save a Scorpio.

::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by brds on Jul 29^th, 2021, 9:39am

[quote author=Tompion link=board=Advice;num=1625834020;start=0#14 date=07/28/21 at 23:24:00]I assume Instrument interface control I mentioned is the same as Instrument Cluster.

I've taken a look at the diagrams and, they are different things.
The Instrument Cluster is shown on sheet 33-04-05.
The Instrument Interface Control is shown on various sheets of 17-01.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Torbayboy on Aug 2^nd, 2021, 3:59pm

OK finally took lead off alternator and fuse 17 didnt blow, but did as soon as lead reconnected to alternator.

Have local Ford dealer who thinks they can fix anything as most of the leccys down here are not so good, so it's going there in the next weeks.

??? ??? ???

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Nunnspoet on Aug 3^rd, 2021, 9:48am

One thing came to mind, you may have already checked it out but have you checked out the cigarette lighter light in the front of your Scorpio and the cigar lighter? The wiring can short out in there which, as I know, causes all sorts of wierd things to happen. It's a bit of a fiddle getting the ashtray out etc, but it's got to be worth a try.

Good luck mate

Mike :)

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Tompion on Aug 3^rd, 2021, 9:57am

on 08/02/21 at 15:59:56, Torbayboy wrote:

When I read that I thought you meant you were taking the alternator in, but reading Mike's reply, are you taking the car in?

Try another alternator as it looks like that's the problem.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Torbayboy on Aug 3^rd, 2021, 5:09pm

Hi yep, its the car going in, got son in law to take the live wire from the alternator yesterday, and the No 17 fuse only blew when the wire was reconnected.
Couldnt start the car as yet again battery drained - seems to have a short somewhere that the other guy walked away from.

Do have a 2 litre alternator and a cossie one but I think the 12v is different again ???

Have faith in the local ford garage as when I had Granadas they had the awful Bos(t)ch alarm fitted by Ford at the time (92-94 models), and this was the only place that could get my 2.9 M saloon running, as it used to cut out intermittently after up to 10 mins running time, got left in the middle of a busy junction once, still wear brown trousers now :)

Will see what they make of it, as for what Mike mentioned, the last guy said the ahstray area was fine as was underbonnet and electrics to rear of the car.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Tompion on Aug 3^rd, 2021, 6:58pm

Certainly sounds to be the alternator.
When did you last charge the battery?
Even if the the alternator was OK it won't charge with F17 blown so battery will run down.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by a900one on Aug 5^th, 2021, 2:08pm

Hi Roy
I had the same with my Granada scorpio, it would cutout the same place every morning on the way to work, turned out to be a dry joint in the Bosch immobiliser.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Torbayboy on Aug 5^th, 2021, 2:58pm

Hi Gerald,
Had the bosch problem with several 2.9 granada scorpios, back in the noughties.
They were very dangerous to drive, I used to let it tick over for 10 minutes before I went anywhere, was charged at the time about a ton to remove it all, and by coincidence thats the guy at the local Ford garage who's on reception now recommending their auto leccy can fix this one for us.

This is why I have confidnce they can save the 12v estate for us,havent got round to booking it in yet but will keep you all posted. ;D ;D

Have just finished charging it over the weekend, looks like a decent short in it, but luckily it hasnt killed the battery (yet) it's now fully charged and disconnected, I will only reconnect when it's ready to go in for it's fix. Feel sure it's tha alternatoe and some bodgy wiring frm our walking leccy man.

;) ;)

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Torbayboy on Sep 11^th, 2021, 7:58am

Following on from the last post of early August, have let the car stand with charged battery (disconnected) and booked into local Ford garage.

Car went in last monday on a "suck it and see" will use as a filler job, as they are nearly £100/hour!

BUT if it fixes it we have a good car saved.

Turns out the climate control panel was fried!! (the one with the ribbon on behind the air con panel on the dash) it seems to be common according to them (working Ford all the time so I presume he's right).

Supplied one from the shed (thank you peter) and most if not all things running now, haven't fully checked everything, but the guy who did the work only mentioned "button 3 on radio not working") - new one to me any ideas?

And he had a comprehensive list of all bits "broken" now fixed.

Did mention the ape who fixed the fans should take lessons, but thats life, if all stays well will probably get them to rewire this also.

So there we are then 1 more aubergine estae on the road again.

I'd like to thanks you all for your inputs and help with this it's much appreciated. It shows also sometimes the Ford dealer is a good way to go.

:) ;) :D ;D >:( :( 8) ??? ::) getting better everyday

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Simmo on Sep 11^th, 2021, 9:13am

That is good news indeed. Congratulations and fingers crossed things go well from here on. :)

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by johneisen2001 on Sep 18^th, 2021, 11:14am

Hi I have a 1996 ford Scorpio Ultima. I have the same problem radio works but don't have interior lights

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Torbayboy on Oct 3^rd, 2021, 5:11pm

SO... the car has been working fine for a while now, but having inadvertantly double locked it earlier this week, went out to a flat battery today.

To best of our knowledge nothing else changed, i have locked the cars on the rear doors for a while now and had no problems, but we did have bad rain since last used on friday-no sign of run down battery or trouble starting then.
Battery tray is sound and so is inside of car as otherwise Ford mechanic would have noted it, funnily though the car would only unlock on drivers door with the key, but wouldnt do the same on passenger door and couldn't open the back doors at all until I connected a battery charger to it.
Any comments - suggestions welcome

Thx R ??? ??? ???

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Snoopy on Oct 4^th, 2021, 7:35am

Sounds as though your key is worn too much to operate the nearside door. The keys and locks wear over time, and if the car is double locked then you will NOT be able to open the doors from the inside until the double lock is operated.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Torbayboy on Oct 4^th, 2021, 1:05pm

Hi Dave thanks for that will check it out.

One thing we did notice a while ago is the drivers door light stays on on the dash (as its LED it wont burn the dash out like the granny does), would this trigger a problem with double locking, as this car has only gone down in the 48 hours since it was double locked on friday-perchance it all meshes and the car thinks the door is still open, but all the doors are double locked & just the drivers door works on the key.

Kind comments welcome

??? ???

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Simmo on Oct 4^th, 2021, 2:40pm

This item and links (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/doorlockbld.htm) might be useful.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Torbayboy on Oct 5^th, 2021, 5:06pm

Got the car charged up and started no problems, had a note that the radio would not log in from Ford garage, we solved this as the amplifier was disconnected, if this has any bearing on it's current problem will remain to be seen.

Tested all we reasonably could with the car running, but didnt drive it, locked as usual with out key so the moring will tell if we still have a leak in the electrics, will be a lovely motor when all runs right.....just need patience and percy verance

8) :o :(

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Torbayboy on Oct 6^th, 2021, 11:58am

Updatede,

In around 18 hours has flattened battery again, left with enough to restart car now nothing
Off to ford again

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Tompion on Oct 12^th, 2021, 11:19am

With regard double locking, it shouldn't cause a problem. I always double lock mine and the driver’s door ajar light was faulty (fixed the light now, only took 2yrs to get round to it). The only difference the faulty door ajar light made was it didn't flash the indicators when double locked.

Sounds more and more like loom damage, the trouble is there’s no real way to check other than unbinding the loom.

Title: Re: 12v electrics
Post by Torbayboy on Oct 30^th, 2021, 12:38pm

Hi again, am I right with no kry in ignition the cooling fans should NOT work??
Is this on all scorpios or any scorpio should be the same as today back in the 12v we had fans working as we parked they ceased just before key was taken out, and as the key in hand on came the fans-original problem repeated.
At least we fixed the air con unit though.

Thanks all

:) ;) :D