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        General >> OBD Advice >> Bit of a problem friends.
        
(Message started by: Nunnspoet on Dec 3^rd, 2012, 9:49am)

Title: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Nunnspoet on Dec 3^rd, 2012, 9:49am

Three registered fault Codes:

P0155 Oxgen Sensor Bank 2 sensor 1

P1401 Diff pressure feedback lean EGR circuit I expected this code as I have disconected the EGR.

P1151 Lack of HO2S21 switched - Sensor indicates Lean ( see P2197 ).

Ok, I was expecting the first code as I had previously had this code which turned out to be a broken wire so close to the sensor that my friendly garage could not rescue the sensor. So thinking that I had a good second hand Sensor I did a swap. Wrong, :(. .With the second hand sensor still fitted I have the above codes recorded.

P2197 is a mystery - can't find it on the site.

My dilemma is this; the other codes relating to the Bank 2 Sensor 1 are shouting "failed Sensor" but what is this Code P2197? ???. Can somebody please enlighten me. :)

Mike

Title: Re: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Tompion on Dec 3^rd, 2012, 10:57am

I’ve not been able to find anything definite via Google on that code, mainly problems with bad wiring in the loom or leaks. You’d expect a leak to affect both sides unless it’s in the exhaust manifold.

The code is mentioned here, but nothing specific.
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=OBD;action=display;num=1147882397

Title: Re: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Nunnspoet on Dec 3^rd, 2012, 11:13am

Thanks Tompion, I've had a look at that post and I will check the post Cat wiring to the Sensors though I would have expected a Fault Code to have registered had there been "shorting"

What do you think of this; Swapping the faulty pre-Cat sensor for one of the post-Cat sensors?

Mike

Title: Re: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Tompion on Dec 3^rd, 2012, 12:36pm

Yes that's probably what I'd try assuming they come out reasonably easily. I think wire lengths may vary if originals so you may find you have to extend the wires.

Title: Re: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Pegasus on Dec 3^rd, 2012, 10:53pm

Hi,
info suggests there are no codes that start 2nnn.

FYI, prefix letters mean: B=body, C=chassis, P=powertrain, U=network.
There are only 2, 1st numbers: 0 = generic, 1 = manufacturer specific.
2nd no is specific to the vehicle system (e.g. 1=fuel & air metering and 4=auxiliary emission controls)
3rd & 4th nos are fault specific.

This site lists generic and Ford specific codes HERE (http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/82-maintenance-repair/132766-obdii-trouble-codes-list.html)

Paul

Title: Re: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Matt on Dec 3^rd, 2012, 11:29pm

Hey

fault code P2197 Heated Oxygen Sensor (Bank 2 Sensor 1) Biased / stuck lean

so cylinders 4 5 6 pre cat lambda

i highly doubt all injectors on that bank have blocked up but worth checking the link pipe for leaks

Title: Re: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Nunnspoet on Dec 4^th, 2012, 8:29am

:). Thanks for your input everybody ;D.

Providing I can release one of the good post Cat sensors I will go down that road first, thanks Tompion

Believe it or not but my Missus is biased towards a new Sensor, saying words to the effect "Leave well alone"! 8). Great but at 147gbp. a Sensor from Ford is out of the question ???. Christmas time to boot! We'll see.

Thanks for finding the meaning of P2197 Matt :). It was a real puzzle and stopped me in me tracks as it may have been a vital piece of info. Interesting though as I have no driving issues other than a slight "heaviness" on the throttle. which I put down to a faulty pre Cat sensor. It feels more like a slight reluctance to comply with my right foot! I'm sure you know what I mean ::). Also idle is brill. So I can't see any evidence of blocked injectors.

I am puzzled by "checking the link pipe for leaks" :-/. I know now't about Injectors. I think that both Banks are fed by a common rail. Methinks you know a lot more than I will ever know so I will shut up and await enlightenment ::).

Thanks for the link Paul, interesting and I'll use it again though I could not find P2197, but Matt has answered that one 8)

Where did you get "2nnn" from :-/.

Mike :)

Title: Re: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Simmo on Dec 4^th, 2012, 9:41am

This link (http://www.justanswer.com/car/4082r-diagnosis-p2197-trouble-code.html) ,from a Google search, may help. :)

Title: Re: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Matt on Dec 4^th, 2012, 10:11am

as your reporting and the code i found said "bank 2" im assuming its a V6 engine you have. your correct its a common rail but you have 2, one each side of the v connected with a small hose :)

youd know if it was leaking as it would stink of petrol lol.

a quick check is pop the spark plugs out, if all 6 look the same color then id say lambda, if the 3 on cyls 456 look a different color then you could have an ignition fault but your not reporting enging power losses.

it could be the cat on its was if its hesitating but a dirty maf can cause that to

before you start taking the skin off your knuckles trying to undo a lambda fo all the basic checks, ht leads, plugs, maf

if you cannot undo the sensor the plug on the lambda should be the same, so just plug the post cat plug into the pre cat wiring

Title: Re: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Nunnspoet on Dec 7^th, 2012, 9:17am

Thanks again for your replies :)

I've been quiet for a couple of days 'cause it's cold, wet and miserable out on the driveway :(, so have done 'nowt ::), I have had a kind offer of a Sensor, but need to check the that the "old" finis No. relates to a pre Cat sensor for my Cossie.

Now to confess my stoopidity :-X. Since I have owned this Cossie she has always revved up sharply when started up - cold or hot. The amount of revs can vary with the sharpet rise being after she has stood for a day or so. She ticks over like a dream and drives superbly, and honestly I became used to her revving habit. I have recently had the centre inlet manifold out to effect a repair on those little vacume hoses that sit under it, and even more recently I removed the EGR, blocking the orifices so as to preclude unmetered air ingress. So all things considered I feel a bit of an idiot :-[ :-[, as I obviously hav unmetered air coming into the Inlet manifold from somewhere - I have squirted all around with Carb cleaner with no change in revs :). The only thing that I can think of now is the "Butterflys", (should have thought of that before) as the unmetered air is not being sucked in from outside but is ingressing through slightly open butterflys via the Air filter and MAF., therefore the squrt test would not change the revs.

Interesting really; this could explain the revving syndrome and makes me wonder about the affect on the whole of the fueling! :'(

What do you think folks?

Mike

Title: Re: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Tompion on Dec 7^th, 2012, 8:14pm

Unmetered air is air that hasn’t passed through the MAF, but I assume you mean a slightly open butterfly.

If you’re saying it briefly revs without you touching the throttle a couple of things other than air leaks spring to mind. A small amount of petrol entering the manifold whilst standing could cause this. Petrol weeping past an injector whilst the engine is off or leaking past the diaphragm of the pressure regulator.
The vacuum hose between the regulator and the inlet manifold just reduces the petrol pressure at tickover, no petrol should pass through it but the diaphragm can deteriorate you could try disconnecting it and plugging the manifold. My 2.3 will start normally like that can’t speak for the 2.9.

Title: Re: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Nunnspoet on Dec 8^th, 2012, 8:15am

Thanks Tompion.

I did wonder if a slightly open butterfly could cause the reving. Not so sure now :-/

Yes she revs briefly without touching the throttle so I'll have a look about and see what is what. Weather permitting.

Title: Re: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Matt on Dec 8^th, 2012, 10:07am

they will rev on cold start. don't think thats anything to worry about. it will be the cold start system operating

Title: Re: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Nunnspoet on Dec 19^th, 2012, 8:29am

Update.

A very very happy Scorpio owner. ;D ;D ;D.

No Fault Codes :D.

I disconnected the N Bty. terminal and fitted a new Ford Sensor extending the cables which were too short. Took her for a "Drive Cycle" and did an OBD2 read. just the EGR code which I expected. Great stuff! 8)

There is more! She no longer revs up sharply on start-up, either hot, cold or indifferent. This is really good stuff friends and shows the necessity of good Sensors.

Code P1151 Lack of HO2S21 switched - Sensor indicates Lean ( see P2197 ), had me quite worried but that has now gone.

She is now driving like a dream, easy feel to the throttle and an awareness of power through the accelerator pedal, you know what I mean folks 8). She is a real beauty and no more sharp revs every time I turned the ignition key.

I can't thank all of you enough for all your input. Invaluable ! :-*

Happy Christmas everybody.

Mike

Title: Re: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Tompion on Dec 19^th, 2012, 9:16am

Good to hear Mike.
After you posted about revving I watched mine, it revs briefly to an indicated 1500 revs then gently drops to the correct revs each time I start it. Does yours do that now?

Title: Re: Bit of a problem friends.
Post by Nunnspoet on Dec 21^st, 2012, 10:22am

Hi Tompion.
Having read your message I realized that I never look at the rev. counter when I start her up ???. I just listen, usually not taking any notice unless something tweaks my curiosity. Even having just fitted the sensor I did not look at the revs :-X. Old fashioned or daft, never mind.

Had to rush out just now, she reved a bit high, still didn,t look ::). But will keep an eye out and report back.

Mike