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        General >> Off Topic Subjects >> Road toll, Pay as you go!
        
(Message started by: dart on Jun 5^th, 2005, 10:46pm)

Title: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by dart on Jun 5^th, 2005, 10:46pm

The new proposed road tolls!
You must have seen it on the news.
Personally,I don't think we possess the technology to monitor 30million cars,vans,trucks,busses and motorbikes,at any given moment,all day,everyday no matter where, in the UK, from space!!
Bear in mind figures like £1.30 per mile,on busy roads,in the rush hour have been bantered about!
what do you think :-/

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Baz on Jun 5^th, 2005, 11:25pm

I think the sooner I b****r off to France the better...this country is becoming a joke. Everything the government comes up with has to do with how much money they can screw out of businesses and the working man while continuing to hand out money to those who don't want to work for it. Houses for 16 year olds with children etc. I had a guy working for me and he had done for 7 years. In January this year he came in and said he was leaving and was going on benefits to claim incapacity benefit due to his alcohol and smoking problem!! His girlfriend also packed her job in. To this day they are now living off benefits in a house paid for by you and me, spending our money on cheap fags and beer after giving up a job that paid him £1200 in his hand every month!!

Stop the benefits culture by stopping benefits. It can't be any simpler than that. Get everyone to re apply and get those bloody ID cards in to stop multiple claims.....Oh and next time....don't vote Labour!!

As for the road tolls, it is only putting money into Browns back pocket so they can add some more money into their fat pension funds and spent nothing on the day to day maintenance of the roads. How many times have you had your suspension battered by driving through pothole Britain?

Tell ya....France, Spain or anywhere other than here is the future. I vote we all b****r off and leave the politicians to sort out paying benefits when no one is paying tax...should be fun!!

Baz

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by dart on Jun 5^th, 2005, 11:47pm

See ya point Baz! :o

I detect a slight Bee in ya bonnet? :-X ;D

But stop mincing your words and say what you mean! ;D ;D

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Eddie on Jun 6^th, 2005, 2:43am

JEEZ! What next,special duty on Bread?

Its as I have suspected for a long time,the Government has cottoned on to a way to raise cash. I dont mean JUST the road toll idea, anything that is a problem then tax it out of existence,problem gone.
Considering thier Working class/Union roots they seem to have done a complete 180 on us.

Adding road and congestion charges hits the hard up the most,not to mention the problems it will create for business-they will simply pass on the charges to the consumer. Business users and the well of will be able to cruise at their leisure.
I NOTICE NO MENTION WAS MADE OF THIS BEFORE THE BLOODY ELECTION!

It would be interesting to see members ideas regarding a usefull and sensible way to protest about this idea.

G.Brown can go back to scotland and stay there.

eddie

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Baz on Jun 6^th, 2005, 8:48am

Good point...why do we have so many scottish MP's down here and yet I don't recall one English member in the Scottish Parliament!

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Steve_S on Jun 6^th, 2005, 2:28pm

Big Brother

1984 is coming, its just a little late

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Geoff_W on Jun 6^th, 2005, 9:32pm

Hot News from the Treasury++++++++++++++++++++++

Rumour has it that there is a deck chair duty collection pilot at Blackpool next year, transponder fitted and the deckchair attendents will be able to monitor you from outer space, unless you are sitting under one of those aluminium umbrellas, bill it straight back to you at home.

After the pilot the plan is to tax garden chairs and recliners and rumour has it a greenhouse tax.

Now those of you that have barbeques is it gas or charcoal, cos thats going to trigger a different tarif?

Allegedly Gordon is an islander and apparently they are a bit more determined than most......unless his anti fun chip goes faulty

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Baz on Jun 6^th, 2005, 11:13pm

I did hear tell that all of the GPRS systems that operate in the UK an probably Europe rely totally on the USA defense satellite network for their tracking system. How will they sell this one to the environmentalists, anti US types, Muslims, and just about anyone else if this is the case. Would you like the Yanks to know where you are everytime you go out in your car??

But of course they are leaving the way open for two possible outcomes to all this:

First, that the implimentation of a system that is able to track 20+ million cars at any given time will fail, the government then says they have tried to do things another way, apologises then bangs up fuel duty instead..... all the local councils continue to charge a "congestion" charge as well so the motorist gets done over twice

or secondly, the system is a glowing success and everyone then pays £1.34 a mile (because you know that will be the case) apart from some bloke with a rabbit farm in Powys who pays 2p a mile. Then the government (after reducing fuel duty and road tax instead of abolishing it) start to slowly and stealthily, put up duty and fuel tax again to pay for....green issues, makeovers for teenage mothers and public transport/roads so the motorist gets done over twice.

You can see where I'm going here? the motorist will never win, the rabbit farmer in Powys will not be allowed to be better off because he is a motorist, and as such is a legitimate target for the taxman.

Of course the Scottish Parliament will not allow it, nor will the Welsh assembly and we in England will carry the can....and the cost for everyone. Anyone else for France? we can set up Le Scorpio website!!

Believe it or not, I am a proud Englishman who is disgusted by what is happening to my country. Past governments have allowed too many lilly livered liberal types to convince the powers that be that being soft on criminals is good, that giving money to any old foreigner who comes here for an easy ride is preferable to allowing our pensioners who fought for the country a decent standard of living in their twilight years, that being a soft touch to everyone who doesn't want to work will be OK because the people are now so used to the crazy things we see in the papers, that they don't care anymore.

Will someone please stop this now because I want to get off!!!!

Baz

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by dart on Jun 7^th, 2005, 12:06am

Firstly; I do not like the idea of this country being taken advantage of,by anyone!
Secondly; I do not like the idea of peoples freedom being dictated using money (ability to pay) as a weapon!
for green issues or any other,that will never answer any problem.
Thirdly;This system is used in the US and Japan to great effect and has been for many years,and they pay less vehicle related tax than we do!
Fouthly; I'm English and proud of it! and no govenment,present or future,is going to make me move!
They will have to move!I'll still be here.

But I'm sick of traffic jams!
what is the answer? ???

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Simmo on Jun 7^th, 2005, 5:13am

The answer seems to be get Baz elected Prime minister with a few of us to help him !!!.

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Baz on Jun 7^th, 2005, 8:58am

Dart,

this system might well have been used effectively in USA and Japan, but those countries are car loving countries. Petrol is cheap (although I know it is rising recently) they have lanes wide enough to land jumbo jets on side by side, not like here where everything is done to restrict the driver; speed restrictions, cameras, tolls, speed bumps and total lack of maintenance of roads resulting in potholes that you could hide a bus in! Did you read recently that prescot had rejected the idea of getting rid of his Jags and having one of those Prius cars like all the stars in America do? one rule for the Labour government while trying to tax the rest of us onto a non-existent transport system. Surely if there was a viable alternative to driving to work, a lot of people would do it. I live in Warrington, but have worked a lot in London, Manchester etc and just about all of the major cities have some kind of decent bus/tram/rail network. In comparrisson, it is the rest of the country, the smaller towns that have 20 buses to cope with all of the rush hour requirements. If everyone made a stand and said "OK, lets all get the bus for a week" the whole country would grind to a halt with riots as people tried to get onto the public transport system!!

Maybe that should be the next protest, forget about blockading fuel depots and the like, because the cops only get involved as obstruction is technically illegal (although they got to benefit when the fuel prices went down a tad...maybe they should be charged more!! ;). What we should do is all leave the cars at home for a week and have a planned mass use of public transport!! nobody would get to work and maybe then someone might realise that the only way is to build a transport ystem before they tax us out of the cars otherwise the country will be in a bigger jam than it is now; no one can afford to drive anywhere at normal times and the buses can't cope with the extra people!

That's my opinion anyway!

I too am proud to be English but if I am being denied my pleasures in life, why shouldn't I move to a European partner who doesn't seem to agree to everything Brussels spouts? I hardly drink, I gave up smoking so my car is my only indulgence. Why should I drive a Yaris while that fat ships waiter Prescott drives round in a Jag....that I'm paying for anyway??

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by mazzy_j on Jun 7^th, 2005, 1:44pm

If the government gets its own way before you know it the window tax will be back, and at £1.30 a mile at peak time it would cost me what, £143 every friday after work when i go see my mrs-to-be who currently lives 110 miles away! i'd prefer the £165 (i think it is) road tax and rip off pump prices than pay up. I think i may invest in a plane and avoid the charge and traffic jams altogether...
Matt

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Lee on Jun 7^th, 2005, 6:48pm

i agree with most of what Baz says ,,,,,,,I still can't work out why people still vote Labour everything that mans says is a lie ,,,i know the others are not much better but the people who voted for him,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well best not say too much about that
also it would cost me £402 every fortnight to see my kids ,,,,i pay the CSA £215 a month (i know its not as much as some )have a new partner and her 2 kids and only bring home £350 a week ,,,who is going to tell my kids one is 8 the other is 5 that i most probably only be able to see them once every 3 months
Lee

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Baz on Jun 7^th, 2005, 7:03pm

Eventually, the public will wise up to what is happening in this country...how we are squandering all the tax income on stupid non deserving cases like a ridiculously overpriced national stadium in which we can buy overpriced tickets to watch overpaid numptys kick a ball around. How we can continue to spend large sums of money on jobs for the boys and retirements at 48 for coppers. It won't be the small minority of the population that bothered to vote though, it will be the lot that never bothered, the ones who are so pigged off with the whole political game that they can't find anyone worth voting for. Those are the ones to watch!

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Eddie on Jun 8^th, 2005, 5:10am

Cardiff local authority are jumping on the bandwagon and considering 'city centre access charges'.
The reason given is congestion!
The only time I ever see congextion is after an international Rugby match or a major league footy match.
Of course the roads are chock a block for 2 hours in the morning and likewise in the late afternoon, i.e. The dreaded rush hour! The buses are also rammed to the roof at these times.
Many people who work in Cardiff travel many miles from 'The Valleys',public transport is not an option.
It would appear the answer lies somewhere else!

This is a city where a MAJOR Hospital charges medical staff to park thier cars in the hospital grounds/car parks.
Staff,some of , if coming to work by public transport would need 2 to 3 hours travelling time to get to work!

The most common sense answer is to gradually increase the forms of public transport and provide incentives,not disincentives.

Sounds like the easy end of the stick is being grasped.

The Money end.

eddie

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Baz on Jun 8^th, 2005, 7:54am

The local council here in Warrington are even considering it, yet at the same time, they are granting permission for the building of hundreds of new houses all over the outskirts of town, each with garages and so adding to the problem even more. Our council doesn't even discourage the use of cars by it's staff because it even gives them free parking in the local multistorey (which is being rebuilt at the moment so it is a big talking point as they now have less places to park!!)

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Snoopy on Jun 8^th, 2005, 8:04am

Under the current European legislation they have to provide parking spaces for the staff....Strange but true.

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Boblavens on Jun 8^th, 2005, 1:46pm

Matt
I've got news for you the window tax is Bac, cos when you put double glazing in yourself you are supposed to pay the council 100 pounds so they can say wether your new windiws meet the new isulation and heat transfer requirements. Instead of banning firms from making and importing substandard C**p.

Bob

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by dart on Jun 8^th, 2005, 10:29pm

How about,They abolish road tax and in it's place put a set levy on petrol to replace it? Then the more miles you do,the more you pay? Also,on any motorway,if you have 1 person in the car you can only use the inside lane!two people,up to the middle lane,Three or more, the fast lane?(sorry, the overtaking lane ;D) By the way this would allow a reduction in the fuel tax t'boot!and we would'nt all have to get on buses! not bad heh! ;)
Well,it beats moaning about it(Well,nearly)
That's my best try at an answer to the problem!
I hope one of you can come up with better and I'll vote for you,even Baz ;D ;D ;D

the honourable Baz,PM ;D ;D ;)

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by dart on Jun 8^th, 2005, 10:36pm

Ho and also Bob!
If you want to change any more than a socket or ceiling rose in your own house,by law,it has to be checked by or fitted by an authirised electrician since the end of Jan this year! ??
strange but true.

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Baz on Jun 8^th, 2005, 11:47pm

I am an electrician by trade and I am not allowed by law to install anything in my own house because I am not part of an approved company!!

Apparently it was brought in by some MP who lost a member of his family through dodgy wiring. Pity they don't do it for dodgy builders or gypoes selling tarmac!

I now have to get an electrician in to do all the work in my house (yeah right!! ;))

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Geoff_W on Jun 9^th, 2005, 11:28am

Problem is that polls are being taken and if you pick the right people to ask you will find 47% think we need to pay more and only 16 percent were totally against having a tracking system in their cars.

Have a look at:

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-06-09T080424Z_01_MOL929055_RTRUKOC_0_TRANSPORT-BRITAIN-ROAD.xml

Any of us who have to travel for business but work for ourselves are going to get screwed big time if Darling gets his act together.

Taking Barrys point about France, the French just would not put up with it. It shows how sad your average Brit is when it comes to standing up for themselves.

The World Bank carried out some research in the 90s that drew a direct linkage from peoples ability to travel and the possibility of prosperous communities and viable economies. If we are not careful we are going to turn into a small land full of poor people. (And Government Ministers being chauffered around at the cost of us taxpayers)

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by ferretmobile on Jun 10^th, 2005, 10:12am

Im with Baz on this one. I drive a lot in france and their roads are far better than here in rip off britain. The MOT system is every three years and they dont pay road tax like us mugs. The french have a lot of toll roads which are maintained to a very high standard with rest "airs" so you can take a break when wanted. I too am proud of being british but when I arrive back at dover, and drive on the M20 which is a hell hole of a road and the road signs tell you that tiredness kills and to take a break...BUT WHERE? I can see riots just like the poll tax riots occouring in the future on this pay as you go nonsense. CANT PAY WONT PAY! and I will be bu**erd If I am going to put a tracking device in my own property. Yep and I too will be moving to France when I retire. I am sick to death of bad manners, bad roads, bad attidudes, bad government, taxed till I squeek...oh I could go on. Its only paying off my mortgage that keeps me here. rant over

Ferret

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by dart on Jun 10^th, 2005, 9:02pm

Whoa! a cold darkened room and a damp flannel for you Ferret or you'll bust a vein! ;D ;D
But I do agree with you and the majority of posts!
Just a quick point about Lee's post
I too was jumped on by the CSA,in 1991,six years before labour took office,sorry to say mate it was the torys that invented it!and by the time anyone noticied it could'nt work,so much money had been thrown at it(down the toilet) no one could dare pull the plug,so it limps on, lame in three legs! :-/

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Eddie on Jun 11^th, 2005, 5:11am

I see that Darlings (has a Beeching sort of ring to it?) idea would involve the use of satellite tracking.......

When I used my scorpio as a Taxi it was fiitted with a GPS tracking system (not a routemaster type of thing for my use) to let the computer in the office know where I was for job dispatch purposes. Accurate to about 100 yards or so.
When the system was first fitted the techies couldnt figure out why it wouldnt work!
The Satellite 'arial' was a small puck that was stuck to the top of the the dash. It took a lot of head scratching to realize it was the heated screen wires acting as a screen,placing the puck right over by the pillar cured the problem.
Getting the idea?? Sounds like this could be fun!!

Things bugging me, Is the plan to reduce congestion or to make money,or both

eddie

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by ferretmobile on Jun 13^th, 2005, 10:29am

Oh Eddie, you foolish boy ;D ;D
Its all about money! But then you probably know that }{ LOL ferret

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Eddie on Jun 13^th, 2005, 5:54pm

I hope they are planning to charge pro-rata for engine capacity,or car length.
Sorry about that you 2.9 fellas but if it is a flat rate then the majority of people to 'suffer' from this latest nutty idea will be the ordinary man in the street with an average sizes 1.6 engine etc.
Merc. and BMW owners etc. will be laughing thier heads off.

eddie

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Eddie on Jun 13^th, 2005, 5:59pm

Just found this from 2002.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1996237.stm

I like the bit about 'The government has no plans for any tolls this decade'. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

eddie

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Baz on Jun 13^th, 2005, 6:42pm

The reason that the government is trying to go down this route is blatently obvious to anyone who has used the peage system in France; they work on the basis that there are sections of motorway that are free and sections where you have to pay. On a free bit, everyman and his dog use it and it does resemble our overcrowded motorways to some degree. They then have signs which will say "peage 1000m" it is then a battle for everyone to get off the motorways and onto the side roads before they have to pay!!! The only people on there are tourists and people with a few quid and the odd lorry or two. Other than that they are pretty empty in my experience

The government here has reduced the need for this by simply charging everyone everywhere they go!!

Will they introduce this for buses, taxis, ambulances or police? I personally think they should and it would then be seen as a universal tax for everyone!! And make the individuals pay as well rather than the companies or organisations they work for. stop it directly out of their wages I say!!! ;)

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by dart on Jun 13^th, 2005, 10:03pm

Then abolish road tax! Put it on petrol!The more you use the more you pay,no fancy gadgetry,no satalites,no spencer tracys! ;DIf you,ve got a bently doing 8 to the gallon then you "will" pay more,so the aristocracy suffer as much as the peasants!,no one gets away with it!. as a luxury car,the scorps, actually does well out the deal! the 'well to do' pay more for once!

" Probobly!" why it has'nt been thought of before? :-/
" Ho, no ma lord"
That's nice! ;)

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Eddie on Jun 14^th, 2005, 3:03pm

Dumping RFL is no good. It is used more these days as a visible confirmation that the vehicle is on the raod 'legally'. Insurance and MOT documents being required to obtain the RFL disk.

What I find scary is what will happen to the traffic that does not use the pay as you go sections,they will mostly be driving along the 'A' and 'B' roads instead. The accident rate is Bound to go up IMHO. Along with Insurance rates.

eddie

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by dart on Jun 15^th, 2005, 9:21pm

The traffic on these minor roads will also go up!All those years of bypass building,Who's going to pay,say,50p a mile when you can go through the town again and pay 2p?Ohooo,the problems with this system make yer shudder! :-/
And another point,What happens if this is just a double bluff? in a few years time it threatens to become reality? we all go ape...rise up....it's in the papers in the media....so they drop the idea! phew! and we all happily go back to paying the RFL and tax on fuel and were thankfull of how cheap it all is ??? :-/
Scary.

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by Boblavens on Jun 21^st, 2005, 6:22pm

Putting the RFL tax equivalent on fuel was thought of decades ago but like most simple things that work "FAIRLY" it was discarded as I believe they reckoned it unworkable, something to do with the Oil Companies not liking it. Sounds a bit like America and Bush doesn't it?

Bob

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by stevelufc on Jun 21^st, 2005, 7:07pm

just in case you want to avoid extra charging for traveling in the uk and use public transport, train companys want to charge a congestion tarrif for peak times using busy stations. so there is no escape. unless you become a gypsy and not insure, register or tax your motor. apperently scorpios make good towing vehicles, i'm off to buy a caravan.

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by brewer on Jun 25^th, 2005, 12:42pm

I just object to paying to use what I have already paid for over and over again!
The Government has milked motorists for years and if a reasonable amount of this ransom had been spent on a road system there would be no need for congestion charges.Politicians are there (supposedly) to meet the needs of the population , not to make things difficult for it.
Let alone the civil liberties aspect and the Government's record on large scale IT enterprises.........

Title: Re: Road toll, Pay as you go!
Post by dart on Jul 4^th, 2005, 11:46pm

Stuff it,I say ;D