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(Message started by: sector-9 on May 6^th, 2006, 1:06pm)

Title: Rant
Post by sector-9 on May 6^th, 2006, 1:06pm

Okay I've decided - 80% of car drivers should be banned from the road until they've learned a few simple rules (all in the highway code and taught in driving lessons):

On a motorway or dual carriageway you should drive in the left hand lane unless overtaking something. {}
Speed limit on a single carriageway road is 60mph for cars and motorbikes and 70mph on motorways and dual carriageways (unless towing then it is -10mph for both). {}
Anticipate when another vehicle is likely to pull out in front of you (e.g. they're approaching a lorry and you're in the middle lane).

Most of my driving (some 70K/year) is on motorways and main roads up and down England/Wales. I've found that very few car drivers pull into the left lane after they've finished overtaking. It's very inconsiderate as it means anybody wanting to overtake them has to squeeze into the right hand lane to do so. Worst still, such drivers are usually totally oblivious to those in the left lane that are trying to pull out to overtake something. The amount of time I've been approaching a lorry but couldn't overtake because somebody has been sat next to me - or too close behind - in the middle lane, with no intention of actually overtaking. Or the reverse, I can't get out of the RH lane (without speeding) because somebody is sat in the middle lane - with nothing on their left! >:( Even worse are those that sit in the middle lane and don't even do 70mph but dawdle along at 60 or so... >:( >:(

Darren

Title: Re: Rant
Post by fordcos on May 6^th, 2006, 1:10pm

great thought is was just me that came across these idiots.

Title: Re: Rant
Post by mr._floppy on May 6^th, 2006, 2:59pm

Can't think of any reason why we can't adopt the US habit of weaving in and out of lanes as the fancy takes us , thus doing away with the outdated need to stick to the left all the time .

The onus then is on the " I'm in a hurry " driver to safely negotiate his way round the lane hoggers.

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Baz on May 6^th, 2006, 3:04pm

ALL Lorries should be banned from the roads during the hours of daylight and at rush hour thus making the road traffic more evenly spread throughout the day.

Title: Re: Rant
Post by sector-9 on May 6^th, 2006, 3:56pm

If somebody sits in the middle lane and I'm gaining on them without speeding then I'll stay in the LH lane and pass them - I'm doing the correct speed in the correct lane. As for banning lorries, we've got so many of them now because we no longer have a decent rail network for goods. Personally I think lorry drivers have much better road awareness than car drivers and are more considerate. Though I would ban lorries from overtaking each other unless there's at least 10mph difference in speed!

Darren

Title: Re: Rant
Post by nuttyscorp on May 6^th, 2006, 9:10pm

having driven many nights (friday and saturday as a cabbie), the thing that gets me most, is the amount of people who still drink and drive,and even more so, comletely drunk. those of you that work on the road these hours will know exactly where i'm coming from.
do you sit behind them watching them weaving about? or floor it, hoping they wont weave into you?
and are they really that stupid, thinking they are "ok to drive", when its blatantly obvious otherwise.

Russ

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Baz on May 6^th, 2006, 9:44pm

Get on your phone and report them...just remember they may run over and kill someone you care about Russ!!

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Bren_K30 on May 6^th, 2006, 10:09pm

This rant could have been from me. On average I do about 4,000 Km per week and about half of this is on the M6, M1 M25 and M20. The rest is mostly in France and Belgium. Much as I don't want to admit this but British drivers are fast becoming the poorest drivers in Europe as far as I am concerned.

Title: Re: Rant
Post by nuttyscorp on May 6^th, 2006, 10:19pm

on 05/06/06 at 21:44:40, Baz wrote:

Get on your phone and report them...just remember they may run over and kill someone you care about Russ!!

at 2am on a fri/sat night, a call to the local police, about a "possible" (we know otherwise) drink driver, will not be of there utmost urgency, no doubting it will go on their "database?" and will be looked out for when issues such as brawls/urinating/disturbing the peace etc, are sorted out, (very evident between 2-3am) by this time they will be home/ or involved in an accident.
hopefully the police will record info/regs, to catch them at another time...........without doubt between the hour of 2/3am, i will see 3 d/drivers every night.

Russ

p.s by no means do i mean any disrespect, about the way the police work their night shift, i've seen the s*** they have to put up with, ....respect is due where its due.

Title: Re: Rant
Post by sector-9 on May 6^th, 2006, 11:33pm

on 05/06/06 at 21:10:05, nuttyscorp wrote:

...are they really that stupid, thinking they are "ok to drive", when its blatantly obvious otherwise?

That's the problem. They can rely on the fact that there are too few police to catch them. And why aren't there enough? The ones I've spoken to have blamed an increase in paperwork to be filled in at the station (they still only work the same number of hours though, so that means less hours out and about). Also they aren't getting the funding needed - it's better (from an accountant/manager's point of view) to install speed cameras which can all be serviced by one or two people, pay for themselves and quite often generate profit . Of course, speed cameras don't actually make the roads safer - they probably make it worse by replacing real police - and they're easily rendered useless just by removing or covering your number plate... }{

Darren

Title: Re: Rant
Post by jonnycab on May 7^th, 2006, 12:07am

Driving is a stressful experience, but you have to remember...anyone that has a driving licence is entitled to be on the road, good or bad. Every driver thinks that they are the safest/best driver & they all slag off other drivers just because they don't drive like they do. You get cut up/you cut someone else up...it's life.... nobody's perfect.
As for drunk drivers...a couple of years back, I followed a swerving Previa coming up to some traffic lights. I pulled up beside him, wound my passenger window down & asked if he was okay. He looked at me in a drunken daze & told me to f**k off. I got out of my car & pulled his keys out through his open window (he was to drunk to resist). He got out of his door & tried to punch me with flailling arms....I drove off with his keys..leaving him rolling around the road next to his car.

My driving instructor who was a wisened old man once told me..."treat every other road user as an idiot & anticipate what they are going to do"....Use the Force!!

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Baz on May 7^th, 2006, 8:56am

Johnny, my dear old dad used to say exactly the same. He drove in excess of 50k a year and was trained at the metropolitan police driving school and was also a Rolls Royce trained advanced Chauffeur. He could drive extremely well in all conditions but was also not averse to an extra turn of speed now and then!!

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Spannerdemon on May 7^th, 2006, 1:23pm

Get on your phone and report them...just remember they may run over and kill someone you care about Russ!!

I did this about two years ago when a BMW convertible shot past me on my way home from work at about 10pm. The guy was all over the road (The A38 Expressway).

The police emergency services answered. "Hello, Emergency Services Peterborough"!!!

The guy had NO IDEA where the A38 was. Like between Devon and Cornwall.
Why the hell i should have been connected to Peterborough...I don't know!.

You're right though.

GET THESE PEOPLE OFF THE ROAD.

They might just kill YOU, Your Wife, Daughter, Son, or somebody YOU love. It's not telling tales. They are a total menace on the road.

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Danny_R on May 7^th, 2006, 3:53pm

I agree that the UK does need more police to rid the roads of these dangerous drunk drivers. Here in the US we have Highway Patrol or State Troopers as they are more commonly known which deal solely with such drivers on the highways, and all the riff raff causing trouble around the neighborhoods are dealt with by the city and county police departments. Always plenty of cops on hand to deal with the smallest of incidents.

Danny_R

Title: Re: Rant
Post by mr._floppy on May 7^th, 2006, 5:32pm

Would you all be happy for random breath tests to be introduced ?

Title: Re: Rant
Post by sector-9 on May 7^th, 2006, 6:50pm

Yes. But I very rarely drink at all...

Darren

Title: Re: Rant
Post by monghad on May 7^th, 2006, 7:16pm

Bad driving is not contained to a specific age group or gender, I have been blocked from overtaking by Grandad driving down the outside lane at 50 mph on a motorway, overtaken whilst in stationary traffic by mothers using the hard shoulder to get to the next junction to get the kids to school. Dangerous overtaking on country roads by inexperienced drivers is a near every day experience, I do between 100 and 250 miles per day in the works Transit and have lost count of times I have been cut up on roundabouts by people with no lane discipline.
Here in Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland(For our overseas viewers) the local papers report road crash fatalities involving young drivers nearly every week.
I am sure that nearly everybody on this site has lost somebody they know to a fatal crash, I personally have lost good friends, one of whom had been driving home one night along the Edinburgh bypass, the report said that he had been speeding, his 2.0 Capri had flipped going around a bend and rolled several times, he survived that, but, he climbed out of the wreckage and walked in front of a truck, he was killed instantly, the only saving grace is that he did not kill anybody else. He was a VERY pleasant and funny guy and I still think of him when I am on the Bypass. :-/

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Bren_K30 on May 7^th, 2006, 10:39pm

Yes - no problem with random breath tests at all, because let's be realistic about it, we already have them!! A police officer can stop you on the flimsiest of reasons and then carry out a breath test if given the slightest indication that you have had a drink.

Unfortunately they have to be out and about to be in a position to stop somebody, and that's going full circle to previous comments on this thread. Also in theory we do have a dedicated branch of the police who deal with traffic, but I suppose in practice they also are used on general matters because of money, manpower or political expediency. It's not so long ago since we regularly heard the oft repeated "why don't they catch burglars instead of hammering the motorist all the time" I was one of those then, but now at the front of the shouts about ***** motorists.

Bren

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Spannerdemon on May 8^th, 2006, 8:50am

Very definitely.

Also random Drug testing for drivers, as I reckon there are more of them these days. Long, automatic custodial sentences for those convicted.

You've only got to see the aftermath of just ONE of the 'aftermath accidents', (my wife see it regularly as she is a nurse), caused by driving with 'substances' to bring it home.

Bits of human body spread all over the road, blood and guts all over the car, and the sure knowledge that for some unfortunate family or families, they have a funeral on their hands.

These selfish drivers don't just injure/ kill themselves! They usually take innocent people with them.

You are NOT OK to drive if you have been drinking!! You only THINK that you are...............
but that's what drink/drugs do to you.

:-[ :-[ Only wish the government would take it far more seriously.

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Baw_Flinger on May 8^th, 2006, 11:07am

I am in total agreement. I know a couple of people who have had their licenses taken from them while under the influence. The first was a couple of points over but the other one was legless by all accounts. I gave hime such a bollocking and didnt speak to him for a month afterwards because I take it that seriously. I wont even have one drink when driving and dont see the point of it anyway. The same goes for a few times in the past where I would rather pay £25 in a taxi than get in the car with someone who has had 4+ pints and offerd a lift.
The worst place I have been for drunk driving is South Africa, where there is no public transport to speak off. Out there it is perfectly normal to go out on a complete blowout till 3am and drive home with a car full off likewise bladderd people. Of coarse, this is in a country where MOT does not exist, road tax is £25 per year and insurance seems to be optional (if you get pulled, you bribe the copper with a fiver or so to get off). Now, I'm a drinker but to have someone match you drink for drink (double JD's all night), then drive you home when you have no choice was very sobbering!! ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Baz on May 8^th, 2006, 11:17am

Absolutely....There should be coppers outside every pub at closing time

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Baw_Flinger on May 8^th, 2006, 3:18pm

On the subject of pubs. What amazes me are the little pubs in the middle of nowhere, when on a Fri/Sat night, the car parks are full and the pub is likewise. Come closing, a multitude of the walking dead shamble into their cars and drive home along those tiny 1 track roads at 60mph >:( >:( >:(

Title: Re: Rant
Post by sector-9 on May 8^th, 2006, 11:28pm

on 05/08/06 at 11:17:56, Baz wrote:

Absolutely....There should be coppers outside every pub at closing time

Unfortunately with 24hr opening (I think) now legal it's almost impossible to police - one of their complaints about it if I remember...

Darren

Title: Re: Rant
Post by sector-9 on May 8^th, 2006, 11:37pm

on 05/07/06 at 00:07:49, jonnycab wrote:

Driving is a stressful experience, but you have to remember...anyone that has a driving licence is entitled to be on the road, good or bad.

Ummm, to earn the priviledge of driving unsupervised you have to demostrate a certain standard of driving and you can have your license taken off you if your driving is so bad as to be dangerous (though you might need more than one conviction to do it). Part of the problem is that normal driving lessons cannot cover motorway driving (learners not allowed on them), so you get people who may well be fine in towns and on country roads who are suddenly able to drive up and down the motorways unsupervised with zero experience or knowledge.

Personally I'm in favour of including motorway driving as part of the normal driving test, and compulsory re-tests every ten years. I know for a fact I wouldn't pass; I've picked up far too many bad habits over the years - but surely an inconvenience once every decade is worth it...?

Darren

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Bren_K30 on May 8^th, 2006, 11:57pm

on 05/08/06 at 23:37:28, sector-9 wrote:

so you get people who may well be fine in towns and on country roads who are suddenly able to drive up and down the motorways unsupervised with zero experience or knowledge.

Darren

It's another scary thought that a 17 yr old can pass a driving test in the morning and, in theory, take a 7.8 ton truck down a motorway (in lane 3 at 70 mph) in the afternoon

Bren

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Kjetil S on May 9^th, 2006, 12:25am

That's probably why they changed the basic drivers lisence in Norway to 3.5 ton max, instead of the 7.5 we had before.

"Basic" lisence is valid for:

up to 3.5 tons
8 passengers (+ driver)
trailer (as long as car + trailer is less than 3.5 tons put together, but a trailer of max 750kg is always legal, even if car + trailer then weighs more than 3.5 tons)

Title: Re: Rant
Post by jonnycab on May 9^th, 2006, 11:03am

On the subject of driving a 7.5 ton.....That law was changed a few years back.
If you passed you're driving test before January 1997 then you are entitled to drive a 7.5 ton. If you passed you're test after that date then you have to take a further 7.5 ton test. You also now have to be at least 18 years old as well.
Alot of employers also will not let you loose on 7.5 ton until you are 23 years old, due to insurance purposes.

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Spannerdemon on May 10^th, 2006, 8:33am

I've just put some of these points to my daughter. She's 21 and passed her test in October last year.

Firstly, and as she did, she thinks that ALL newly passed drivers should HAVE to display a P plate for the first 6 months.

Secondly she asked me to accompany her for several runs on the nearby M5 before she was happy driving on it herself.

Thirdly the THOUGHT of driving a 7.5 tonne truck fills her with so much horror that it would be a non-starter, and she suspects that most newly qualified drivers certainly of her sort of age would feel the same.

Drink Drivers. She would ban them from driving for LIFE. That's the view of a 21 year old. Very healthy I think. She thinks anyone who drink drives should just think about how they would live with themselves if they killed someone from either their own or someone else's family, or even a close friend travelling with them.

Finally, she also thinks that after only 8 months on the road, that Middle Lane Lepers are the biggest pain in the arse on the Motorway, and cause more problems than anything else on Motorways.

Me.......................I'm nearly 60, seen most of it, and just enjoy my car when I'm driving it. I just let all the other morons get on with it!!

It's refreshing to hear a young drivers thoughts though. :)

Title: Re: Rant
Post by monghad on May 10^th, 2006, 8:39pm

'Just let the good times roll..daddio' 8) ;D

Title: Re: Rant
Post by mazzy_j on May 15^th, 2006, 8:52am

Quote:

Firstly, and as she did, she thinks that ALL newly passed drivers should HAVE to display a P plate for the first 6 months.

I remember when i passed my driving test and my instructor was driving me home i asked him whether i'd have to put P plates on my Orion before i took it out on my own. He laughed and said that it was only meant for less confident drivers. I took that as a compliment and happily spent the rest of the day getting used to my new found freedom!

And as for drink drivers,

Quote:

Drink Drivers. She would ban them from driving for LIFE.

[]

Matt

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Ells on May 19^th, 2006, 9:10pm

Ah the 'P' plates, admittedly they work in that I give people with them a wide berth, but that's because they seem to be displayed by people who recently found a driving licence in a cereal box..... ::)

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Penguin on May 23^rd, 2006, 11:32pm

Penguin's shilling's worth on these matters is as follows:

Random breath tests - certainly (and for drugs as well as alcahol). Also, since tiredness can kill just as well, I would like to give the police an extra power to be able to order a driver off the road for (up to) four hours if they think that s/he is too tired to drive. (Backed up with say, three points and a fine if they return to the road before the time is up).

Elderly Drivers - I think the Australian system would be a very good idea. That way those are still able can continue to drive and those that are not can be stopped.

Young and New Drivers - I would like to see the green "L's" made compulsory for the first six months, with a 50mph speed limit and a ban from motorways for the first three and a 50mph speed limit for all roads except motorways for the second three. The existing two minor offences and returned to learner status should be tightened up to just one in the first three months. However the driver has the option of ending these restrictions early by taking an advanced driving test.

Everybody Else - I want to see alterations to speed rules in the intersts of road safety.

1) Speed limit on motorways/dual carraigeways to be rasied to 90 for cars and motorbikes.
2) All gatsometers to be removed from motorways and trunk roads - speed to be enforced in accident blackspots only by average speed measurers only. In this way the phenomenon of breaking for the camera will be ended. Gatsometers may remain on urban roads but 300 200 and 100 yard warnings (motorway exit style) must be posted well in advance.
3) Speed limit on all trunk roads to be raised to 50 if it is currently lower. Roads to be fenced off from pavements if pedestrian safety is an issue. Pedal cycles to be banned from all trunk roads without seperate curbed off cycle lanes - but seperate curbed off cycle lanes to be made available on all trunk roads.
4) On dual carriageways and motorways a MINIMUM speed limit of 56mph for when the road is clear. That way everyone is at least as fast as the trucks which should keep them from having to overtake. Any vehicle not capable of this speed (apart from very heavy trucks with permits) to be banned from motorways.

Too Many Lorries:
Yes there are. Don't get it myself, a train can carry 20 lorries' worth of stuff easily. Not that I have anything against lorries whose drivers are usually the very best on the roads, but I think large tax breaks for companies using rail freight might be a good idea, coupled with a ban on lorries within city limits between the start of the morning rush hour and the end of the evening rush hour. (The idea being that companies will shift their goods by train and use lorries from the train depot at night, thus making the roads more bearable during the day for everyone else).

Buses:
Highway code rule 198 to be abolished as bus drivers seem to interpret this as a license to pull out even when cars are already half way past them (happened to me twice today).

Also bus lanes to be removed to make room for another car lane and the aforementioned cycle lanes. I don't see why bus passengers should have priority over car drivers myself.

Okay that's all for now...

Cheers

Penguin

Title: Re: Rant
Post by LiverpaulH on May 24^th, 2006, 8:44am

A fair few good points there penguin, but you have missed the point about lorries. Lorries should have priority over cars, not the other way round. Most car journeys are for pleasure, not need, all lorry journeys are a necessity.

Everything that you eat, buy, use and live in will have been delivered by lorry at some point. Train is not an option in this country, for a start you need twice as many lorries, one to deliver to the train one to collect off, instead of one to do the journey. Our country is too small to make rail viable. Rail also hasn't the capacity, they can't cope at the moment with the current level of freight, how can they cope with more. Goods can't be delivered at night because in many areas they are banned during night hours, people complain about loss of sleep. Also everyone would have to work at night, the places being delivered to and those being collected from, would you be willing to do that?

Have you noticed that near hold ups/ roadworks the lane that moves smoothest is the inside lane, why because of the lorries, they don't accelerate hard then jam on the anchors like many car drivers. What we need is much better driver training esp lane discipline. I've just got back from a holiday in austria and germany and the autobahns there even when busy still move well, why because people move over as soon as they can and those passing don't sit at 1/2 mph more than the car they are going round. They get their foot down, so the car can the pull back out when necessary.

It is the selfish middle lane and outside lane hogs who need re testing which will sort out congestion probs. Police should enforce driving with undue care and attention anyone who fails to pull across when they can, they'd soon learn. If you are able to be undertaken then you should've pulled over, no questions.

Have you also noticed that the worst hold ups are when it's a bank holiday without many lorries, why cos it's all the cars causing the hassle, eg. Mr & Mrs Rover who use it only on sundays and holidays and haven't got a clue about etiquette and with no driving ability whatsoever.

Oh, don't start me on gatso's!

Cheers
Paul

Title: Re: Rant
Post by mazzy_j on May 24^th, 2006, 9:08am

Penguin, I agree to virtually everything you've said above, the exeption being about having to wear green 'L' plates, i'm with Ells on this one. Those cars i see with green plates on i take the assumption that they're grateful to have just about got through they're driving test and now that they're licensed to drive on the public roads they (possibly) find it all a bit overwhelming and need to let others know they're not as confident.

I'm 19 and i've had my license for 2 and a bit years now, taken my Pass Plus and have covered about 50K miles so far, about 80% of which are motorway miles. I passed my driving test first time with not a single minor whatsoever :o I'm into my cars and driving is something i've wanted to do for as long as i can remember, so failing the test wasn't an option. Plus, at the time i was living in Surrey and my g/f living in Leicester, so if i wasn't able to use the motorways it would probably be quicker to walk ;) From what i can see its a confidence thing that green platers lack.

My mate's just read this, and he says that having green plates lets other drivers know you've just passed your test, and so will be trying to get past you at the soonest oppotunity which won't help on the safety side of things.

As for BMW drivers, I know they have a bit of a bad rep but from my experiance it isn't 5 series and anything upwards, its the 3 series owner who has just bought a cheap(!) BM and now assume that they own the road >:(

Hope i havn't offended anyone :-/

Matt

Title: Re: Rant
Post by jonnycab on May 24^th, 2006, 10:11am

I have a theory about BMWs. It may not be the driver. It is a possibility that all beamers are fitted with large magnets in the front bumpers. These attract the vehicle to the rear end of any car that happens to be infront, & once the beamer is within two feet of that vehicle the driver can slip it out of gear and let his beamer be invisibly towed....thus conserving petrol. ;D lol

Title: Re: Rant
Post by tintin on May 24^th, 2006, 1:35pm

i used to drive a mini around (one of the real ones, not the modern things), and got "bullied" all the time, by far the worst was BMW drivers (agreed, it was usually the 3 series, maybe just cos there are more of them?). . .despite the fact the mini was no slouch on the road, and was happy at the "usual" speeds on the motorway. funny to watch Mr BMW get overtaken by the mini, glance across to girlfriend, plume of black smoke as he floored it so i couldnt pull back in, and undertake me.

now driving the scorp, i seem to have a lot more room to breathe ;D

everyone should have two cars, small one for town, big one for motorway !! or maybe some kind of transformer car?? think my mini would fit in the boot?

Title: Re: Rant
Post by Penguin on May 24^th, 2006, 3:46pm

You probably could fit a mini in the boot of a Scorp Estate...

:D

Cheers

Penguin

PS - I think my lorries idea came across rather more draconian than intended. I said "ban within city limits between begining of morning and end of evening rush hour." I actually meant simply "during the two rush hour periods" eg I do not want to ban them all day as well.

Title: Re: Rant
Post by sector-9 on May 24^th, 2006, 8:49pm

Not sure about the idea of making people do different speeds on the same road. We've had a couple of fatal accidents on the A52 and it's always been because somebody tried to overtake a lorry (which are legally limited to 40mph on a single carriageway whereas everyone else can do 60mph) and didn't get back across in time.

If the lorries could do the same speed as cars then there'd be no need to overtake them - unless you're a 3-series owner! ;) Not only that, it's madness that we 'encourage' overtaking lorries on single carriageways which often have a lot of bends and junctions - yet on a dual carriageway where it is generally safe to overtake there is less incentive (lots of car drivers think a dual carriageway is 60mph limit)...

Darren

Title: Re: Rant
Post by monghad on May 25^th, 2006, 8:11am

'Every other driver on the road is an idiot'. That bit of wisdom was passed onto me by my driving instructor in Edinburgh many moons ago, it has served me well over the years...but not obviously true...well, not all the time. ;)