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        General >> Off Topic Subjects >> Road Pricing - Have a look at this WE GOT A RESULT
        
(Message started by: Geoff_W on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 9:02pm)

Title: Road Pricing - Have a look at this WE GOT A RESULT
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 9:02pm

I know this will impact us all in one way or another, I will leave it to the moderators (Happy New Year Chaps) ;D to decide if this is the right place or wether it should be off topic.

Our blessed PM Tony has commissioned a website for petitions from us common folk where we can vote on line about what troubles us.

The largest on line at the moment is proposing that satelite tracking and road pricing as a cash grabbing tax scheme should be abandoned

See Here...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/02/nroads02.xml

And the petition is here...

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

Now I suspect that somebody in the Ministry of Transport or the Treasury is hoping that people will snooze their way past this but over 70,000 (edit now 77,055 edit now 79885 edit now 83009 edit now 86995 edit now 88015 now 101716) have already spotted it and signed up. It is only available until February

Have a look and tell them what you think. Or just wait and watch it happen.

Geoff

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Baz on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 10:37pm

I think it is a worthy News story and should be signed by anyone who drives a car..... Unfortunately I reckon it will probably be implimented and the Tories will not get rid because of the amount of extra cash it will generate to replace all the cigarette tax now that 16 year olds won't be able to buy fags till they are 18!!(tongue in cheek by the way!!)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 11:09pm

Fair comment Baz but if we sit still for it we get what we deserve.

Well fuel duty and vehicle excise duty already go into Gordons coffers and he had a lucky escape in the European court on the mail order/ internet shopping appeal, maybe we can see the tax burden reduce through more efficient government }{

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by jonnycab on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 11:24pm

I think that the government are already losing huge amounts of tax from tobacco sales & have been for years......I don't know anyone that buys it in shops anymore.

Most people go to Belgium to buy it, don't they....like I do ;)

Imagine if everyone gave up smoking & drinking.......petrol would probably be £10 a gallon & council tax would be higher than your morgage repayments ::)

P.S. I gladly signed it.....I wonder if it will affect my credit history ::)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 11:30pm

Jonny I know what you mean, there are some parts of the country where 50 - 60% of booze and tobacco is personal import.

Well maybe if our government learned to spend our money wisely instead of just spending it........Aaaagh!!!

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Baz on Jan 3^rd, 2007, 1:23am

But that goes for every government not just this one (which I really do deplore.....) I reckon the people should be allowed to have a get out clause in our votes that if after 2 years of a parliament we think the government are just a corrupt bunch of freeloading pocket liners, we could recinde our votes and force an election. 4 years is too long. Just think, we have to possibly put up with the slack jawed Brown leading us for 2 years after that nice Mr Blair decides to stand down!! so Gordons report would read: "10 years bleeding us, 2 years leading us!!"

And I think I will move this to off topic subjects.... Sorry Geoff!!

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 3^rd, 2007, 11:42am

No problem Barry.

The post is starting to look a little bit more like an off topic one any way.

78758 Signatures at 11.40am on the 3rd and the site keeps timing out so I guess it is getting a lot of hits, chance to take part in a sort of democracy so go and have a look folks ;) You know it makes sense ;D

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by macroy on Jan 3^rd, 2007, 12:22pm

Same thing over and over again.Hit the motorist,Hit the smoker,Hit the drinker,and then Hit them some more and if there is anything else we can tax,then tax it.They make me sick. Roy.>:(

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 3^rd, 2007, 2:09pm

Jonny & Roy

We get taxed because some of the things we pay for make sense Defense (though the money does not seem to reach those that need it), Health, Education, Social Care (whatever that means),and all the other guff pops up as stealth taxes.

Actually if everybody gave up smoking (coffin nails, cancer sticks etc) our tax bill would drop because of the reduction in cardiac and asthma / breathing related diseases. (But with people living longer and in better health other things would start to kill us off and actually for those people that get a calm moment from having a ciggy would be running up big bills on other types of pharmaceuticals).

On the booze front well a slice of folk just don't handle it well and then wander about doing stupid things, picking fights and acting like richard heads. ( In some areas at weekends 50-60% of A&E activity links up to overindulgence and a big slice of the ones that are drunk and agressive are not paying taxes to fund the NHS anyhow)

For all the sober calm charming members of the Scorpio community this does not mean you ::)

Council Tax well we are in for another hit this year partly because for some people it is easier to stick the tax up than manage what they already have smarter. In my neck of the woods Council Tax has literally doubled in the last ten years.

Now the vested interests on this road charging fiasco are the government, the technology companies that want to put in the infrastructure and the academics who see this as a nice way of getting grants for bits of research.

Apparently we in the UK are going to trial this so that it can roll out across the rest of Europe, the satellites are paid for it just needs the black boxes fitting and I expect each of us will have to pay for that pleasure as well and the problem is that a lot of folk are just wombling along and don't have a clue

Rant over for now.

Geoff :-/

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by taliban on Jan 3^rd, 2007, 7:50pm

not sure if i agree wiv the smokin bit geoff,

if theres between 12 and 20 million smokers (dont know if that includes cigars n pipes) so say 15 million. lets say they smoke 20 a day at roughly 4 quid on each pack as tax, thats 60 million squids tax per day, times that by 365, that equals a lot (my calc wouldnt do it lol).
its often said that the revenue from tobacco cud build and run 10 new hospitals per year. i dont know if thats true, however, theres lots to take into account, probably more so from outpatients (as you mentioned asthma etc) with ongoing treatment more than the terminal in wards from smoking.
but lets face it, every government loves a smoker, they pay exhorbitent tax throughout their lives, then its very nice of them to die early so they take less pension.
i find it interesting that this government has increased and invented all sorts of taxes, seems to coincide with more people like me buying there tobacco in belgium; costs me around 2 quid a pouch there, about 10 quid here.
i find the political future of this country a tad worrying, most of us dont want blair (or brown), but whats the alternative? the conservatives? well they lost my future vote as soon as they said they would bring back that barbaric mentally retarded blood thirsty pastime.....fox hunting. not as if blair actually banned it though, more of a ladyboy whimper attempt.
the liberals? sorry, silly thought lol.

oh well, back to the actual topic; i find it disconcerting that blair feels the need to do this vote thing online, he already knows the reply to it.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by taliban on Jan 3^rd, 2007, 7:54pm

'Council Tax well we are in for another hit this year partly because for some people it is easier to stick the tax up than manage what they already have smarter. In my neck of the woods Council Tax has literally doubled in the last ten years. '

how very true, exactly the same can be said for the nhs, this current gov proudly throws increasing billions at it, but it still fails. doesnt matter how much is thrown at it if it isnt managed correctly.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 3^rd, 2007, 8:21pm

on 01/03/07 at 19:54:39, taliban wrote:

'Council Tax well we are in for another hit this year

The council tax on our place is rising to nearly £2k a year, it isn't a mansion for Gods sake >:(

Add that to road tax, fuel duty and all the other 1 million or so stealth taxes and you see why so many people in this country live barely above the poverty line. This charging per mile thing really gets my back up, surely fuel duty is proportional to the amount of so called greenhouse gases a car puts out. A tank of fuel in the Jag normally costs me about £50, if they really want to punish souls like me for owning a second car to drive around at weekends then surely fuel duty is the most profitable way to do it, the more you use the more you pay...

...But they've now realised that make fuel expensive enough and people will go and buy smaller cars or go for alternate fuels. Hence charging per mile, with the added advantage of putting a box inside your car to record every journey you make, along with the proposed ID cards, the photocard driving license and new passport. I don't like this thing when I drive past a police car now and I can see them scanning my plate and waiting...alas, not to see if my car's been stolen, waiting to see if they can pull me over and trick me into a hole because my tax disc's out of date, I've skipped a parking ticket or my car is really registered in my girlfriend's name to make the insurance cheaper.

Now we have a mass of people on this blind 'save the world' crusade because large companies have just realised how much profit there is to be made out of people's fears...this will make a few company bosses and ageing rock stars hideously rich. Mabye we really will get cooked in our own slow bake oven but I don't think a tiny island like the UK could make the blindest bit of difference to what is touted as a worldwide phenomenon...

Aaahhhhh...I should apply for a slot on Talk Sport...the world is a darker place since the loss of Britain's angriest man :'(

Regards, Bruce ;)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 3^rd, 2007, 10:34pm

Regardless of the other taxes that we have this one is still at a stage where we can make politicians regardless of colour wobble.

Yes they want our money, yes they want to know where we are and what we are doing and how fast, but its worth having a go.

If you have'nt visited the site yet please go and have a look, it was over 80,000 votes by 5pm. If the link gives you an error page please keep trying, it is a government website after all, and the government are poor at IT.

Tell anybody you know that has to pay for their own motoring about it.

Geoff

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 3^rd, 2007, 10:40pm

[]

Done it Geoff, the least we should all do ;)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 3^rd, 2007, 10:44pm

Nice one Bruce ;)

83009 and still counting

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 4^th, 2007, 1:48pm

Talib

I knew I was on shaky ground with smoking ;) but there is still no reason for Blair to push through road pricing when they are already using fuel duty as an inhibitor/source of revenue.

The other thing is that I am concerned at the way that this government are nibbling away at our civil liberties and our pockets and the idea of compulsory satellite tracking linked to road pricing.

The main thing is that with TB doing this on line we can send a message, he can ignore it but at least we are marking the cards of those that follow him.

Geoff

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by taliban on Jan 4^th, 2007, 6:47pm

quite agree geoff, the thing that worries me is its an un advertised online 'vote', aimed at not reaching the whole audience for a reason...

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by dh_dove on Jan 4^th, 2007, 6:56pm

Tiberius....I'm with you on all your comments.
Re road pricing....if(when) it comes in they use a GPS based system then that will know what the speed limit is and how fast you are going....result squillions of cash, huge congestion and a happy Scottish forum member...... (none intended :P)
NB Last figures I heard smoking related diseases cost the NHS £1.5billion annually and smokers pay @£7.5billion in taxes. And as has been pointed out they have the good grace to die earlier and claim less pension. (It begs the question why are "we" so reviled???)
Off to Tony's "Consultation exercise" now to regiister my futile disgust >:(
Catch you all later
DH Dove
PS Have you put bricks in your fuel tank to save on petrol a la 1976 drought? It costs me £80.00 to fill the XJS ::)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 4^th, 2007, 7:21pm

on 01/04/07 at 18:56:54, dh_dove wrote:

result squillions of cash, huge congestion and a happy Scottish forum member...... (none intended :P)

LOL, I wonder who that could be then???

I do however remember the ancient words "If you speed, you deserve to get caught" ;)

on 01/04/07 at 18:56:54, dh_dove wrote:

PS Have you put bricks in your fuel tank to save on petrol a la 1976 drought? It costs me £80.00 to fill the XJS ::)

Come to think of it Dove, I haven't tried that one yet, couldn't squeeze the bricks down the hole ;D. The biggest shock I had was the day after I bought it when I could see the fuel needle dropping before my eyes...alas, fuel economy!...If only someone had said the fuel senders on the X300 are nearly always faulty ::)

I normally get it tanked up at a quarter, costs me around £50. I'm still getting mid 20's MPG out of the beast, mabye my driving shoes have feathers attached to save the world from certain slow baking?

Happy driving ;)

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by dh_dove on Jan 5^th, 2007, 6:18pm

Bruce
OK Sounds like you have a bad case of nineties Jaguar dodgy gauges, they really are hopeless. It amazes me that a "quality" manufacturer could take such a big step back. Only problem, dodgy gauges coincident with Ford takeover :-X
All late XJS owners know never to believe what the gauges tell them. We calibrate them ourselves.......brim tank, set trip, do 100, 200, miles etc take note of needle position, brim tank again check fuel input and do the arithmatic. It's the only way of knowing what your gauge is actually telling you.
Best bit is the same goes for the engine temp. oil pressure etc. etc. ::)
Still, nothing beats giving an AJ16 a good thrash (apart from doing the same to the Cossie!!!). Always bearing in mind prevailing speed limits {}
Regards and enjoy your big cat. 8)
DH Dove

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 5^th, 2007, 7:04pm

And that's even before you get to the oil pressure gauge which they had to change to an idiot switch ;)

I drained the tank to almost empty, took the fuel sender out and cleaned it...working fine at the moment. If it goes again I'll get one of the later ones. Also fixed the faded clock, crankshaft sensor (yes, I've enjoyed limp home mode already), headlamps, sparkplugs, filters; on to the oil change and brakes next.

The AJ16 is purrrrfect (pun intended ::)), the harder you push the happy pedal the more that muted growl grows...3.2 is nice but the 4.0 is a different beast, power and handling is spot on. I'll never part with this one, not over my dead body :-*.

Happy driving ;)

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by jonnycab on Jan 6^th, 2007, 4:13am

Back on topic...road pricing ;)

Blair's government are running scared.
They've got themselves into Iraq & Afghanistan & have now realised how much it is actually costing the country.
Our defense budget should only be spent (in my opinion) on protecting our own interests & not backing up the US's rapidly fading dominance as the world police.

All the tax that is paid in this country, does not get ploughed back into this country...instead ends up in the back pockets of the beaurocrats in Brussels & seems to be handed out to the madness that calls itself political correctness ::)

Road pricing just seems to be another way of raising money for the above & the excuses given by the government & big business are frankly comical.

They treat us like a bunch of gullible idiots....& the worst thing about it is......we are!!
The British attitude to life is ' pay it & forget about it' ???

A classic example is the BBC licence fee..........taxed to watch tele ???.....I seem to remember in Australia, or was it New Zealand a few years back that people en-mass refused to pay it. So they had to get rid of it.
That would never happen here because we seem to lack a sense of community...every man for himself kind of attitude.

Sorry...went off on a tangent there...now where was I....Oh yeah....road pricing.

The Dartford crossing spings to mind. For cars it is a quid, but they want to put it up to £1.50...the reason being is to deter people from driving over it or through it....thus reducing pollution ???

It doesn't matter how much they charge... It ain't gonna reduce the traffic. The only alternatives are driving down the A13 & going through the Rotherhithe tunnel (like driving through a Victorian sewer), or the Blackwall tunnel (height restriction & still like driving through a Victorian sewer).

Errrr...hang on...isn't that going to be worse for the environment....all those drivers doing a 30 mile detour just to save 50p >:(.....this government really do think that we are all complete mugs......but then again...we.... the electorate, did vote them in ::)

Another thing about the price hike at the Dartford crossing...

Both Essex & Kent Councils were supposed to benefit from the extra revenue created from an increased charge at the Dartford crossing.
But now, apparently, it will all be going direct to the treasury....I wonder what for ::)

One last thing....the toll charge at the Dartford crossing was originally only going to last until it had paid for itself....then it was going to be free.
Apparently the toll boothes have now taken well over a 100 times more than what it cost to build....& they still want to charge more >:(

Whilst I'm still in a ranting mood....
The latest thing about train ticket prices going up....to stop over-crowding on trains ???

Is that the answer...to price people off public transport as well as pricing them out of their cars ???

What kind of idiots do we have running the country & big business....do they really live in the real world or are they so engrossed in their own utopian lifestyle that they see everything through the bottom of an empty champagne glass......distorted >:(

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by macroy on Jan 6^th, 2007, 1:22pm

[]Jonnycab for Prime Minister. ;DRoy.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by big_neil on Jan 6^th, 2007, 2:47pm

i have said on the forum before, the people of this country are voting these so called politicians into office thats why they,re their. are these people voting because there,s not a lot of alternative. do like i do keep your vote in your pocket until it,s worth using!!(is that why i,ve never voted )i,m sorry if people think that not voting at all is an awful attitude, but until i can see any good i,d be doing, voting for something thats crap will never tempt me to the booths!

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by brewer on Jan 7^th, 2007, 9:30pm

I just object to paying to use something I and other motorists have already paid for.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 7^th, 2007, 9:48pm

122718 people have signed up to reject road pricing with over 50,000 in the last 6 days.

At least you can make your views known with this petition use it or loose it and tell anybody else that you know who stands to loose by this one.

Considering this has had little publicity by number 10 and they usually bring in legislation which follows consultation with sample sizes of less than 5,000 this has got to be worth a punt.

To Neil and others who think there is no point in making waves the big thing that this has got going for it is that you still get to keep your electoral vote tucked up safe to use or not as you wish.

The other thing is that if you don't tell people what you value or what you oppose, getting your own way will only happen by accident and with this government they will just keep hoovering up our rights and frittering away our money.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by LiverpaulH on Jan 8^th, 2007, 9:13am

Jonny, I agree mate, william hague would've made a great pm, trouble is he didn't look right! I know it sounds daft but so much is ablut image, hence the spin machine they call the blair gov.

We'll never know. As for brown just taking over, he's stuffed up the economy now he wants to try an stuff everything up now!

Paul 8)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by jonnycab on Jan 8^th, 2007, 11:31am

Sorry Paul, I deleted the post....thought it was going a little off topic ;)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 8^th, 2007, 6:56pm

on 01/08/07 at 11:31:24, jonnycab wrote:

Sorry Paul, I deleted the post....thought it was going a little off topic ;)

lol Jonny, off topic? I know someone who suffers from that affliction ;)

I agree with you 100% though. A few years back the Govt. wanted to get more people on to public transport. In the past few years the price of fares has rocketed, I remember when I was at school, the price of a local bus fare was 30p, went up to 40p just before I left (1998 )...now it's a quid??

Same case in London with the congestion charge. As the charge goes up, transport prices soar too, it's a no win situation. Same with diesel, the cost in relation to petrol has risen sharp over the past few years so people are now using LPG etc. But you wait until LPG gets really popular and the price of that will do the same...

I just hope the ...rotters... don't manage to sew up the loophole with cooking oil in diesels for a while yet.

Why force people off of the roads if you can make that amount of money? For the good of the environment? Pah! Like hell it is! ;D

Regards, Bruce ;)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by taliban on Jan 8^th, 2007, 8:16pm

the government, transport for london, and local council's like westminster need to take a reality check;

the gov discourage, impound cars and fine people for using veg oil in diesel engines, why? because they're losing tax revenue, yet, they claim to be 'green'. veg oil is sustainable, its not a fossil fuel, the plants its made from produce oxygen, even old veggie oil can filtered and re used in engines. there are approx 8 thousand buses in london running at around 10 mpg, if they could be converted to use re cycled veggie oil the enviromental saving would be vast. but alas, at the moment its seen as tax dodging.

TFL; congestion charge, oh dear, all it does is move congestion from one place to another. the ring of tax around central london generally lies in poorer areas where pollution has been increased due to the added congestion. the morning rush hour has been extended due to people trying to get through before 7am. more fuel is used as people take longer journeys on 'rat runs' around the charge zone, which in turn has lead to more accidents. the benefits, well, the private companies that make money from the partnership, tfl from fines etc.

local government; westminster has noted that since the congestion charge has come into place the use of PTW's (powered two wheelers) has increased by 40% as they're exempt from the charge. they use less fuel, pump out less emmissions due to not being stuck in traffic, cause less road damage due to their weight and get to destinations quicker. so, westminster council rubbing their greedy hands together now plan to charge them 1.50 a day parking in traditionally free motorbike bays.

TFL are extending the congestion charge to cause more misery, on the 2nd of Jan this year cash bus fares went up from 1.50 to 2.00 and tube fares of the equivalent 4.00. they say they dont want to take cash on buses, and as i drive them i like the idea, but, they need the cash revenue as it subsidises travel cards etc.

the whole of londons transport situation is a joke, we need steven norris as mayor.....

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 8^th, 2007, 9:17pm

136000 people and going strong

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 8^th, 2007, 10:14pm

on 01/08/07 at 20:16:03, taliban wrote:

the whole of londons transport situation is a joke, we need steven norris as mayor.....

Tali, Steven Norris is the same as Livingstone and Co...sounds good on the level but you see the change if he got into power...

But, I agree with your points, if we all left our cars at home they'd run out of revenue very quickly. And veggie oil would become legal very quickly if they could police and slap 50% tax on it, look at all the fuss over red diesel a few years back.

Taliban for Home secretary []

Oh no...wait a moment, we'll get bombed by the UN :-[ ::)

Regards, Bruce ;)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Highlander on Jan 8^th, 2007, 11:24pm

Running on veggie oil IS legal

not paying the 27p a litre fuel duty on it isnt

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 9^th, 2007, 10:25am

142000 and going on at about 50 a minute

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by taliban on Jan 9^th, 2007, 10:33am

thats the point though highlander, the gov wont advocate its use because they're worried about lost revenue even though its a sustainable fuel source, theres also probably a few 'hand shakes' with oil companies too...

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Highlander on Jan 9^th, 2007, 10:40am

True but they cant stop you using it if its done legally, there are filling stations selling it :)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 10^th, 2007, 12:29am

164401 people have bitten the bullet

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 12^th, 2007, 6:12pm

It is now up to 318000 who think that the idea of tracking every vehicle at all times is sinister and wrong. Road pricing is already here with the high level of taxation on fuel. The more you travel - the more tax you pay.

Using this as an excuse to track cars is weak and the new tax will be an unfair tax on when and where we travel and is especially unfair to those who have limited travel options and have to be at certain locations at set times, for people who live apart from their families and poorer people who will not be able to afford the new high monthly costs.

If you have voted well done, now tell someone else where thay can find the petition.

Geoff

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by jonnycab on Jan 14^th, 2007, 1:17am

Why, oh why, oh why, do the government (& most other governments) tell us that we are killing the planet by using fossil fuels, when it is within their power to stop it ?

We pay far too much tax on something that we need for everyday life, & are made to feel guilty about it ???

Why should I feel guilty ?....I don't have an oil well in my back garden....I buy it from the petrol station like everyone else....

Ultimately it is the Saudi's & the big oil companies that should bear the guilt of global warming, because they are the ones holding the whole world to ransom >:(

They won't offer an alternative because business is good >:(

No doubt they all have an alternative....but until the world oil reserves run out....then, as far as they are concerned, that isn't an issue ::)

I've heard that the US are considering (as a last resort), to start mining the Canadian Athabascan Tar Sands....the largest oil reserve in the world....but also the largest nature reserve in the world....so cannot be touched....unless the US want it >:(

"Err...excuse me....world leaders, big oil companies & anyone else whom it may concern.....have you ever heard of sugar cane (& various other beet products) ??

It's not indigenous to any particular part of the world.....& with the right conditions, you can grow it practically anywhere on the planet :P

Well, do you know what....there is a product called ETHANOL, that comes from beet products & is as good, if not better than petrol & it doesn't harm the enviroment.

Apparently a mix of 10% Ethanol to 90% petrol will reduce the likelihood of pinking.

And any petrol car can run on ethanol (they all do in Cuba & parts of Sweden) :P

My personal opinion (just an opinion) on petrol is that since the oil companies have bought in ultimate/ultima etc petrol, they have down graded their 95 octane petrol ever so slightly.
So people notice that their cars aren't running so well & pinking a bit & think "Okay...I'll try that new Ultimate stuff....& low & behold....no more pinking & the car runs better"........wow problem solved ???
"It runs just like it used to"...... ???

Forget aliens & the JFK assassination......oil production is the real world conspiracy & until we have a global re-think about fuel production, then oblivion may be just over the horizon >:(

Have a read....http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/altfuel/ethanol.html

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by taliban on Jan 14^th, 2007, 2:04pm

i think its brazil where 25% of cars run on fuel derived from sugar beet.....

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 14^th, 2007, 2:43pm

In Mexico they are having problems buying corn bread because the americans are buying up the crops to make corn alcohol as an alternative fuel. Cost of bread has risen 60% in the last couple of months

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by cossieguy on Jan 15^th, 2007, 8:10pm

Just signed, total now 400,000 ;D
guy.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 15^th, 2007, 11:15pm

Nice one Guy,

Welcome back, hope your move went off well ;)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 16^th, 2007, 12:08pm

416,000 people signed up as at this post

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 17^th, 2007, 5:01pm

Another 53,000 today

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 11:54pm

Stands at 557,272 people have voted for Tony to not pursue the universal satellite tracking and road pricing policy.

If you have not voted yet click on the link below this message ;)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Jan 26^th, 2007, 10:54pm

1 + Gordon for 588,311 against ::)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Dean on Jan 28^th, 2007, 1:36am

Hi Geoff
very well spotted, its now at 592,076 after i voted

cheers

Dean ;)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Neil W on Feb 9^th, 2007, 1:54pm

The petition is still going strong ;D and is now almost at one million signatures with one week to go. Whether or not HMG takes any notice at all I, for one, will not buy and fit the proposed black box so that all and sundry can snoop (sorry Dave) on what I do, where I go, and how I do it :P!

Cheers,

Neil W.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by dh_dove on Feb 9^th, 2007, 7:06pm

Neil W
I'm with you []
DH Dove

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Feb 10^th, 2007, 11:31pm

1,050,943 today

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by jonnycab on Feb 10^th, 2007, 11:44pm

The other night, was listening to James Whale on Talksport, someone Emailed him about it, & he'd never heard of it....as there wasn't much publicity..... ::)

....Hopefully, there will be even more publicity now, as it seems that James Whale approves....& is urging his listeners to sign the petition also.. ;)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by sector-9 on Feb 11^th, 2007, 12:04am

Well there you have it, over a million people against the idea (still only a small percentage of the population though) - hope the government gets the idea, especially as there's no way they can find 1,000,000 extra jail spaces!!!

Still, I reckon they'll try the blackmail approach of threatening to crush your car like they do with road-tax dodgers; but acually enforcing it on anywhere near that number of motorists would be nigh on impossible (you could possibly save enough money to buy another car by the time they get around to crushing yours).

Darren

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by jonnycab on Feb 11^th, 2007, 2:36am

I can visualise the Downing Street scenario....

Tony Blair phones Gordon Brown & says....."Hi Gordon, do you fancy being Prime Minister, 'cos I'm going to Florida to live"

"Yea, okay Tony...but what do I do ?"

"Oh not much, just pretend to run the country & employ a dullard who has no idea of how to distribute the country's wealth.... ;D

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Feb 11^th, 2007, 3:47am

A million people voting on this issue is 250k more than the difference between New Labour and the Conservatives at the general election in 2005.

It is also more than any other parties vote at the election after you count the top three. Like 400,000 more than the Scots Nats polled or 800,000 more then Plaid Cymru.

So any government ignores this does so at their peril

Anorak alert!!! ::)

Have a look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_United_Kingdom_general_election%2C_2005#Overall_results and you will see what I mean.

Jonny the dullard when Gordon gets crowned is Ed Balls creating a wealth of comic opportunities as we pay and pay.

Geoff

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by TiberiuS on Feb 11^th, 2007, 4:11pm

On top of that Geoff, it even got a slot on BBC news yeaterday 8)

Power to the people, lets hope it gets listened to rather than being swept under the Downing Street carpet by Blair's magic broom :)

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Neil W on Feb 11^th, 2007, 7:02pm

And, Bruce, front page headlines in The Times :D.

However, Douglas Alexander MP said it would make no difference and anyway it is not true that the black box would or could be used to monitor anything else such as speed, journey's, etc etc.

Young Mr Alexander seems to have overlooked the fact that it is common practice that laws written for one purpose very quickly are found convenient for purposes never agreed in Parliament. I guess this is one reason why so many people do not trust politicians or the judiciary to stick to the original intention behind any new law.

Cheers,

Neil W.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Kjetil S on Feb 11^th, 2007, 9:40pm

on 02/11/07 at 19:02:07, Neil W wrote:

However, Douglas Alexander MP said it would make no difference and anyway it is not true that the black box would or could be used to monitor anything else such as speed, journey's, etc etc.

If the black box can log time and place within short intervals (half a minute or so should probably suffice), it would be EASY to calculate average speed, journey, etc. It's (afaik) just a basic GPS reciever/transmitter similar to the boxes used by many logistics companies. (And they use it regulary to monitor speed and journey)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Feb 12^th, 2007, 3:43am

I guess Douglas Alexander cannot really be that stupid, but he thinks we are.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by ml on Feb 12^th, 2007, 12:10pm

:o
It got a feature on the Jeremy Vine show on Radio2 today. probably gonna be 2 million by the end of the week now.

mark

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Feb 17^th, 2007, 11:52am

Well last few days and its got to 1,543,669, still chance to register your view if you have'nt yet

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by jonnycab on Feb 18^th, 2007, 8:31pm

Check your Email in the next few days for a personal message from Tony Blair ::)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/12/npetition212.xml

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Feb 20^th, 2007, 6:03pm

Looks like a final number 1,722,756

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by dh_dove on Feb 20^th, 2007, 6:25pm

BRILLIANT RESULT
Tho I doubt they'll take any notice........... >:(
Anyway, read an interesting article in the papers at the weekend (unfortunately papers have been re-cycled so can't find it), Aren't I a good Green ;D
The Gist of it was.
1 GPS is an American Military system
2 US military will not authenticate, validate or certify ANY civilian uses of GPS.
3 Thus any intended prosecutions for Road Pricing violations based on GPS will not hold up in Court
4 Any UK system to have any legally binding basis will have to wait for the proposed EEC GPS System to be in place, I think it's called Galileo......
5 Earliest possible date for Galileo 2020 AD.......
And you know how successful the European Space Agency has been, there are more EEC satellites buried in West Africa than Starfighters in Germany........... :-[ :-[ :-[ ;D ;D ;D ;D
I think that's a GPS system sunk for the foreseeable future }{
Technology to the rescue
DH Dove

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Feb 20^th, 2007, 6:31pm

Well I heard it on the grapevine that the UK is going to be Gallileos first big customer and that the system is nearly up and running.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Kjetil S on Feb 20^th, 2007, 8:41pm

wonder if "nearly up and running" is the status of your ID card database, or the new NHS computer system? ::)

(been following them closely as I'm a daily reader of The Register)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Feb 20^th, 2007, 9:11pm

Me to!

UK government and IT do not compute ;D

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by jonnycab on Feb 21^st, 2007, 11:39am

Did anyone else get their Email from Tony Blair this morning ? ::)

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by ml on Feb 21^st, 2007, 12:01pm

yeah jonnycab, got one - looks like almost 2 million motorists views are just being swept under the proverbial carpet. No surprises there then. >:(

Mark

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by macroy on Feb 21^st, 2007, 1:00pm

Got mine too,I was just watching the news and they say that 1.8 million emails have been sent out to those who have signed the petition.Bet his fingers are sore. ;DRoy.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by pistonbroke on Feb 21^st, 2007, 8:36pm

Thunderbird put Bliar's email straight in the "Junk" Folder }{

Who am i I to argue? ;D

Dave

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Neil W on Feb 23^rd, 2007, 6:37pm

As a sailor in my spare time, I am aware of GPS accuracy and the possibility of the US military switching it off or downgrading it without warning. However, as most ships now use it to auto-navigate with, I doubt the US would actually switch gps off. For coastal work, its accuracy is enhanced by coastal differential beacons to within 5 meters usually - in fact rather more accurate than many marine charts.

The EU has upgraded the accuracy of gps as an interim measure with the EGNOS system (European geostationary navigation overlay service) with an accuracy of 1-2 metres and this system is operational. It relies on 34 ground stations to adjust gps signals and make them more accurate. I reckon it would be suitable for road pricing purposes.

As said elsewhere, the civilian European Galileo system is being rolled out now and is expected to be operational late 2008 and is a satellite based system like gps. There will be 27 satellites and accuaracy could be as good as 1 metre.

So, by the time all vehicles (except mine) are equipped with the necessary receiver, the navigation system accuracy should be beyond question. Whether the associated road pricing system will be any good is quite a different matter. ;D

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by dh_dove on Feb 23^rd, 2007, 8:49pm

Deep Joy
Apparently "jamming" boxes are readilly available on the net for about £150.00.
I can't wait to place my order }{ }{ }{ }{ }{
DH Dove
PS No-one has discussed how many thousands of faceless Civil Servants will have to be employed to administer this Joke...I feel a jobsworth opportunity coming on............ ;D

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by sector-9 on Feb 23^rd, 2007, 11:09pm

All I can say is they'd better figure out how to free up 1.8M jail spaces and we'd best stick to our guns on this... >:(

Darren

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Kjetil S on Feb 24^th, 2007, 11:10am

on 02/23/07 at 23:09:16, sector-9 wrote:

All I can say is they'd better figure out how to free up 1.8M jail spaces

They would probably just stick a £999 fine to your window. Much easier and the gov gets to make money too.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by sector-9 on Feb 25^th, 2007, 2:10pm

Reading the Sunday Express today (no I don't buy it, just the headline caught my attention) - they say that normal road and fuel taxes wouldn't be cut if the new charge comes in, and the government are blackmailing local councils to introduce the charges as "pilot schemes". Because they are introducing it an area at a time, they'll face much less resistance than suddenly dropping it on the whole country. :-/

Personally I think we're a few years off paying per mile (other than the existing fuel tax), but the government are planning to roll out congestion charging zones like in London and this would be much sooner and cheaper than tracking vehicle movements nationwide.

Darren

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this
Post by Geoff_W on Mar 5^th, 2008, 12:24am

Well this looks like a bit of people power that worked ;D ;D

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/mar/04/transport.transport1

Or at least for the moment.

For all of those that signed the Downing Street Petition well done for sending the message.

Thanks for the support ;D ;D

Well done all

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this WE GOT A RE
Post by jonnycab on Mar 5^th, 2008, 2:05am

Wow...they actually listened to public opinion :o...that's gotta be a first ;)

Only problem with the new idea of using the hard shoulder is....what happens when cars break down & there is no hard shoulder to pull onto ?...or have I missed something here ? ???

Are the AA/RAC etc, prepared to risk life & limb on the main lanes of a motorway to put broken down cars on the back of a recovery truck ? :-/

And as for the green campaigners saying that this is only a short term solution & that road pricing is enevitable....

........Yea, it's a short term solution....& a rather dumb one at that ::).....but what these stupid tree huggers fail to see, is that motorists already pay billions in road tax & fuel tax & feel victimised when told to pay more. If all that money was ploughed back into improving the transport system as a whole, then we probably wouldn't have this problem ;).....

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this WE GOT A RE
Post by peteHull on Mar 5^th, 2008, 6:51am

More Waffle.... :(

Where do they get thier prices from?

"The M42 experiment cost £6m per km whereas widening it would cost between £18m and £25m per km." Quote by Ruth Kelly.

I think they should spend the money they're ripping off motorists on PROPER road improvement ie more lanes, better road surfaces and LESS obstuctive paraphanalia.... the prices quoted above, £18 MILLION and £25 MILLION per KILOMETER, that would buy a heck of a lot of concrete and tarmac.

COME ON RUTHY let's have another go and see IF we can't get something right..... (Get some of the crims doing the labour) (grin)

Just my opinion, for what it's worth......

endofrant >:(

Pete

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this WE GOT A RE
Post by TRACEYS_LIMO on Mar 5^th, 2008, 4:51pm

it would be a good idea if freight moved by rail this would free up roads the costs are probably higher but if they increased the amount moved by rail this would come down, theres no logic to any road stategy that i can see :(

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this WE GOT A RE
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Mar 8^th, 2008, 3:52pm

we can slate em, call em tree huggers etc all we want, but unfortunately the truth is they are right we are wrong;
we cannot keep using fossil fuel without a negative effect on the world, even the thousands like myself that often use veggie oil are adding to the problem.
then the problem with overcrowded roads? well, every decade the total number of cars on the road increases and we're letting it get to the point where drastic measures will have to be used, we know we cant keep building more roads. so i would suggest the hold on road pricing or similar is exactly that, just a hold.
i dont know what the solution will be but we might as well wake up and get used to the idea that something will happen simply because it has too, but one thing is definate, none of us on this board will like it.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this WE GOT A RE
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Mar 13^th, 2008, 5:42pm

doesnt look like it now, i read in a free london paper today that they're going ahead with tendering, testing etc of road pricing schemes...

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this WE GOT A RE
Post by peteHull on Mar 13^th, 2008, 11:24pm

on 03/08/08 at 15:52:14, taliban aka Cheekyboy2 wrote:

we cannot keep using fossil fuel without a negative effect on the world, even the thousands like myself that often use veggie oil are adding to the problem..

I think.... ::)
If everybody in the country did all that these people wanted ie:not using plastic bags, walking everywhere, not flying off to foriegn lands, not doing this, not doing that it wouldn't make one iota of difference 'cos all the other people in all the other countries would STILL be carrying on regardless. Global Warming.... it's popythingy, it's ALL designed to generate the need to put prices up for all the greedy ones. Could you imagine half of these so called leaders of the country practicing what they preach about, "WE have to make changes" my foot they are all in each others pockets anyway, they are a load of puppets pulling each others strings. >:(

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this WE GOT A RE
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Mar 13^th, 2008, 11:57pm

pete thats just a poor cop out; 'im not gonna do anything cos no one else will'.
yes of course governments will use the issue to raise revenue, being sneaky, crafty or just downright devious is what politicians do best ::) but you cannot use it to hide from the fact that if you burn fossil fuel there is a by product.....the largest being co2, and if we continue to produce more co2 than nature can deal with then at some point there will be severe consequences.
it wont be the first time nature has bitten back; look at how americas weather changed when they changed the landscape with miles upon miles of grain fields creating dust bowls, now argentina is doing the same with intensive cattle farming for the wests hamburger market...

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this WE GOT A RE
Post by Geoff_W on Mar 14^th, 2008, 1:45am

In addition to protecting our climate, there will always be a need for some kind of taxable activity, how else will our parliament pay their expenses and final salary pension schemes?

We should certainly be thinking about years and generations to come and actually also looking at ways to improve the here and now.

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this WE GOT A RE
Post by peteHull on Mar 14^th, 2008, 6:51am

My old Grandad so I'm told used to drive great big shire horses.... he used to get them to do all the pulling cos the cart was too heavy for him to pull. Before he could do that he would have had to tackle the horses up with teathers to keep it fastened to the cart, he would have to fit the reigns so he could make the horses go in the direction he wanted (so he could benefit from its labours) not only that but he would also fit what were called "BLINKERS" over its eyes so it could only see the things it needed to see.... Then off they went, Oh he would also take with him a nose bag which contained a little snack (treat) for when they were left outside the destination.

Life Eh.... ???

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this WE GOT A RE
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Mar 14^th, 2008, 9:16am

I might be a bit less cynical about 'Global warming' or 'Climate change' if the solution didn't involve more and more tax.
I'm all in favour of having a clean environment but how exactly does giving the Government more money cut carbon emissions ???

Title: Re: Road Pricing - Have a look at this WE GOT A RE
Post by peteHull on Mar 14^th, 2008, 9:43am

:D

I agree Mike, it wouldn't be so bad if we were all in the same financial situation but it is ALWAYS the less well off who get screwed. In my job I am paid a basic rate and also 9 hours a week "contracted Overtime" I rely on the ot to bring my income up to a reasonable level (we can manage) however, the local council have now decided to pull the funding off lettings which enable our kids to play sports on the school grounds at the weekends. That means access will stop 'cos the organisers don't have the extortionate price requirements to continue, therefore that means that the kids end up losing out. Why? because the council squanders money on stupid invaluable projects supposed to improve the city. It is obvious to me that at ALL levels, the so called LEADERS of this country leave a lot to be desired, I think the lot of em should be put on a ship and cast off to Irac or Afguanistan or somewhere. They are manipulated by scientists who are manipulated by the government because if the scientists don't come up with ideas they would be phased out..... I'm ranting again... Makes me sick so I'll finnish for now.... I'm off home, while I can still afford one.

Pete (disgruntled) >:(