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        General >> Off Topic Subjects >> The general public are shallow
        
(Message started by: Penguin on Jan 12^th, 2007, 9:57pm)

Title: The general public are shallow
Post by Penguin on Jan 12^th, 2007, 9:57pm

Hi all

I was just reading Bruce's post on selling his car (and yes I would have it like a shot did I not already have a Scorpio and only one driver in my household) and I was quite amazed to see how low the Parker's valuations have got. I checked mine and it came back at £1700 from a small dealer.

Now I don't have an issue with this, it's not a lot less than I bought it for a year ago and anyway I intend to drive this car until it dies but it got me thinking that if such a good car is valued so low then it could only be because of either badge or appearance - which are quite shallow things to consider when one is buying a car.

To test this hypothesis I decided to have a look at how much BMW (the ultimate example of a bling badge on a fairly average car) one could buy for the same money without getting anything older.

Answer - nothing.

However if you were prepared to add another £400 pounds you could have a 316i from the same year. A car with steel wheels, wind down windows, a tape player, no air-con, cloth seats no speed, no space, no acceleration. In fact the only thing it equals the Scorpio on would be the fact they both cars a rear wheel drive.

If you wanted to get the actual BMW equivalent to my scorp, a 1998 528i SE Touring of the same year (and even this did not have leather, cruise or a CD stacker as standard kit (and 14 less horsepower than a Cosworth) you would need to have SIX AND A HALF GRAND to buy one today.

Now I have actually driven a (1999 as it happened) 528i SE Touring (was considering one when at the time I was buying the Scorp). The one I drove did have leather and a CD stacker (but no cruise) and was optimistically priced at £7,995. But it wasn't very comfortable, and it handled like a breeze block shot from a catapult. Even the Omega I tried was better than this, and so was the Volvo (both of which were much cheaper than the beamer but niether as cheap as the Scorp).

So who buys a 1998 BMW 316i (or a 528i SE Touring)? They must be very shallow...

Penguin

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by taliban on Jan 13^th, 2007, 1:32am

the only possible advantage of the bwm is the build quality might be better than the scorp.
i dont know if its still the case, but bwm never used to put hi fi's in cars, their reason was they let the customer choose which one they want then charge them accordingly as an optional extra.

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by Penguin on Jan 13^th, 2007, 6:03pm

Scorpio's aren't badly built though, they are better than Rovers, a lot better than Vauxhalls (of the period) and definitely better than Daewoo's (trust me, I once had one). Okay, Scorps aren't as well built as Hondas but then and again what is? And Hondas are devoid of a soul (In the three years I drove a Legend I never at any point could say I enjoyed the experience).

BMW build quality is not something I have any great experience with although it has to be said that every late 90's BMW I've ever seen still on the roads today looks pretty shabby, whereas any Scorpio still running doesn't. (Though this could be because we all love out cars and look after them :) )

on 01/13/07 at 01:32:20, taliban wrote:

i dont know if its still the case, but bwm never used to put hi fi's in cars, their reason was they let the customer choose which one they want then charge them accordingly as an optional extra.

That's hardly a selling point for a Beemer then is it? We'll rob you blind on the purchase price and then we'll rob you blind again if you want a decent sound system...

Admittedly I have just had my Ford 7000 radio replaced by an Alpine job but only because it died. While it lived it was the best standard kit sound system I've ever come across.

Cheers

Penguin

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 13^th, 2007, 8:21pm

With the value of the Scorpio, it's a fact of life with owning a Ford, they devalue. With our Mondeo, bought new (well, ex dem) by my uncle in September 1996, cost him over £12k even with his Sierra as p/x...list price then about £14,000. 27k genuine miles, dealer serviced, excellent condition, now probably worth £500 if we were lucky. Same with the Jag, I got it for £4000, near mint, low mileage, full history etc etc. In September 1995 that car cost £46,800...a lot of money then, our house was only worth £55k at the time. So, I benefit where others lose out, the same as when (if) the Scorpio sells...somebody’s getting a LOT of car for a grand or so. List price of the Scorp nearly £24k in 1996; 4 owners, good condition for age (whatever nice things you say, it’s not a minter, not perfect by any means but a nice car nevertheless). Even with good tax, MOT it’s worth little more than a banger now. Build quality of the Scorpio is quite high IMO, it doesn’t have a bad problem with rust and despite the niggles people have with electrics (could happen on ANY car, look on the Jag and Merc forums) and longevity problems with the autobox, the head/manifold gremlin on the 2.3 and the radiator gremlin on the 24v they last well, a good testament to this is the amount you see on the road in good condition.

Fords devalue...well they just do, mabye because the second hand Ford image is of a car caned to within an inch of it’s life and non-maintained, also Ford doesn’t have the badge/lifestyle image of an overpriced lazy German lump. Jags devalue because people run scared of the running costs and the supposed reliability problems and because they too have image problems. With BMW and MB, it's the badge thing above the quality of the car...gotta have the BMW badge, makes the car go faster, buys pseudo status; most of the 316 and 318 cars around here have M3 boot logos, 'why buy the real thing when you can have the bling' kind of thinking.

Mercs have more class than Beemers but just look so clumsy, sexless, unpassionate, lacking in soul. They look like bricks, handle like bricks but base models always hold value, because the badge is seen as something to aspire to. A mate of mine has a 1997 C220D Elegance; ok, it’s got leather and walnut trim, alloys. But, it’s slow, unsatisfying to drive, looks base merc (overly bare interior) and it cost him £5000 in average condition, I’d rather have a top end Ford than a bottom end Merc. And the likes of Toyota and Honda. Super high revving but no torque, fair build but no ride quality or soul. Give me my prowling cat or grinning frog back any day.

Rant over, I feel for my cars as you may have noticed ;)

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by jonnycab on Jan 14^th, 2007, 3:28am

Yup....It's a sad fact of life that alot of people (with lots of money & no class) always opt to buy the badge & not the car ???

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by taliban on Jan 14^th, 2007, 1:57pm

Yup....It's a sad fact of life that alot of people (with lots of money & no class) always opt to buy the badge & not the car

thats a good thing for us then, think how much our scorps would cost if that wasnt the case....

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by Penguin on Jan 14^th, 2007, 6:17pm

[]

£1,700 for a '98 Cosser Ultima Estate or £2,100 for '98 BMW 316i is really not an intelligence test anybody should fail, but we are the beneficiaries of all those people who do.

Cheers

Penguin

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by Spannerdemon on Jan 14^th, 2007, 6:30pm

It actually amazes me that anyone would even want to be seen in a BMW. They are so BORING.

Personally I think they are the most boring looking cars on the road. Badly designed, horribly expensive to service and run, and invariably driven by total Richard Heads.

I hear them in the pub......Oh...I've got a BM!!! (Waiting for applause) ::)

(Not saying of course that it's the one round the corner 14 years old with the bumper hanging off, and furry dice hanging from the mirror)!! }{ }{ }{

As to them being a status symbol, I think a 1930's tractor has more appeal!!

Give me the Scorpio any day. Quiet, refined luxury without having to 'show off' about it.

As for Mercs. A friend of ours needed a new wiper motor 2 years ago. Over £700.00 from Merc......THAT put me off them for life. Ugly critters anyway. Bit like German women!! ;)

Yes, our cars MAY be a few years old, but they look good, and have far more refinement than any BMW will ever have. ;D

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by big_neil on Jan 14^th, 2007, 7:24pm

have you noticed that most ,if not all bee,em drivers have gone for the extra spec. I.E. the piece of velcro stuck to the chin and the corresponding bit stuck to the middle of the chest! thats why they have that"pass me if you dare look"
and i thought i was the only person in the country who BMW,s do nowt for .ooooh i luv my scorpio!

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 14^th, 2007, 10:57pm

Spannerdemon, I've seen you driving around in your pearl finish M3 convertible with decadent rap pumping out of the stereo at 120dB, you can't lie to us mate ::) ;)

To someone my age, the 3 Series Beemer has way more status than either the Scorpio or the Jag. It's bling status, nothing to do with either performance or build quality; like an ipod or a gap year in peaceful, sunny Iraq, gotta have one, gotta have one...

If I sold both my cars I could get myself an M3, have the poke to pass 9 out of 10 cars on the road and have a car that a lot of youngsters drool over but why the hell when I already have a car which feels so good to drive, beautiful interior, ample power and is unusual as well? The Scorpio might not have quite the same gutsy acceleration or the real wood trim but it drives well, that dash is looooverly and has so many nice features which set it aside from other carsThey might have gremlins but how many people can honestly say a Scorpio handles like a brick or falls apart as soon as the original guarantee ends? These cars are getting old now, with all cars parts wear out...

Handling is the most understated thing on our cars in my opinion, for a lump with such a big arse it feels so nimble, so tight on the road. No bias from me, it's just outstanding in that area compared to a lot of 'better' cars. Give the Scorpio a subtle restyle, AWD and a revised block and you could market it today.

Regards, Bruce :).

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 14^th, 2007, 11:03pm

on 01/14/07 at 19:24:24, big_neil wrote:

Neil, was it you then who outbid me on that fake body hair and gold medallion kit on eBay? >:(

Will have to shave the cat now to save my male pride, tabby designer stubble and hairy chest }{

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by big_neil on Jan 15^th, 2007, 4:46pm

my ex work colleague has a nearly new M3, went to the chinese tother night in it,only gone half a mile when my fillings nearly dropped out, it just doesn,t have any suspension does it ,also the extremely low profiles don,t help either.he says the suspension is that stiff so you can take roundabouts at 70mph!.he also said my ultima was the most comfartable car he,s ever sat in, obviously it would be if he,s only had BMW,s. there,s nowt like being wafted along in a scorpio is there?
P.S he,s got the extra spec one with the velcro pac!!

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by mr._floppy on Jan 16^th, 2007, 1:04am

Compared to modern cars the quality of the 10 year old Scorpio interior trim still stands comparison.

The much maligned Walnut effect still looks as good as the day it was fitted, no fading or dullness, and the wee analogue clock has real olde worlde class.
The leather seats are as supple and soft as they were on the cow's back, no cracking or splitting.

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by jonnycab on Jan 16^th, 2007, 1:15am

on 01/16/07 at 01:04:47, mr._floppy wrote:

[]....most people that get in my Scorp can't believe that it's nearly nine years old.....& are even more shocked when I tell 'em it's a Ford :o ;)

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by Dave on Jan 16^th, 2007, 10:14am

My first words when I got in a friend's parent's brand new BMW 3 series touring:

"Wheres the radio ???"

First words when I got in the Scorpio:

"Oh my god its amazing, how much was it again?"

8)

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by big_neil on Jan 16^th, 2007, 4:30pm

the last time i drove a BMW 5series i felt like the queen does when she rides a horse, I.E. side saddle, my butt firmly planted in the drivers seat(uncomfortable) and my feet felt like they were in the passenger footwell!! are new BM,S like this? an awful driving position.

dave, your quite right the cosworth ultima when it was new would be close on 30,grand would it ??

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 16^th, 2007, 8:14pm

Neil, I'm not sure about your statements mate...at no time have I ever seen the queen riding a horse whilst driving a BMW 528i with a fake hairy chest and gold medallion attached. Shurely shome mishtake?

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by big_neil on Jan 17^th, 2007, 2:34pm

maybe i,m right tiberiuS, have you seen the queen without a top on? she might be hairier than a grizzly!(bang goes my new year honour)

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 17^th, 2007, 2:40pm

Oh gaud Neil, I'm shuddering as I write this...

Donate me a few £££ and I'll see if I can get you an honour ;)

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by sector-9 on Jan 18^th, 2007, 10:15pm

Let 'em pay silly money for a badge - it's a tax on idiots!

Darren

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 11:11pm

on 01/18/07 at 22:15:45, sector-9 wrote:

Let 'em pay silly money for a badge - it's a tax on idiots!

Darren

That's what they said about ASBOs and look how much they sell for now on eBay ::)

And there's me getting laughed at because I nearly bought a Lexus >:( ;D

Regards, Bruce ;)

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by Spannerdemon on Jan 24^th, 2007, 2:54pm

Quote by Terry Wogan this morning.

People don't WANT to drive BMW's.

They just want to be seen driving BMW's.

Just about said it all to me.

BMW=Bigheaded Moron on Wheels. ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 24^th, 2007, 5:01pm

You see what painkillers do SD? They make you want to listen to Terry Wogan ;D

Beemers aren't the problem, it's the image they promote. With any car you get good and bad drivers...I'm sticking my neck out here but it seems like 7 out of 10 bad drivers around here are driving 3 series Beemers nowadays. And then you get the ones who sit up your bum when you're already over the limit...

Oh, you want to overtake...why didn't you say so ::)

I'm a relaxed driver, not interested in outrunning every car which appears up my six...I know what the car can do, I'm just happy poodling along while getting 27mpg ;D

I admit I had mucho fun outrunning an Audi the other night on a nice clear road (not that I did anything illegal speedwise you understand {}), but that was different, let em' thrash their cars into an early grave ;)

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by Highlander on Jan 24^th, 2007, 5:48pm

Well I'll have to admit to some bad / dangerous driving here but my solution for someone tailgating me is to stand on the brakes!

Never been hit yet but had plenty of smoke, some people take three attempts before they back off ;D

Van drivers seem to be the worst i reckon

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by mr._floppy on Jan 24^th, 2007, 7:41pm

I must be in a minority, I'm not much concerned with what's happening behind me, apart from the usual MSM, I concentrate on what's going on in front of me .

I'm more likely to be killed from a front impact than being dunted by a tailgaiter .

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by Highlander on Jan 24^th, 2007, 8:16pm

I avoided a rear end shunt once by taking to the verge when traffic slowed quickly and I quickly checked the mirror to see the car behind hadnt noticed...

But I still had to appear as a witness as I had seen he was driving without due care and attention :-/

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by Highlander on Jan 24^th, 2007, 8:19pm

P.S. due to our Scorpios values now, a half decent dunt probably means a write off :-/

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by Dean on Jan 28^th, 2007, 3:42am

Hi Guys
These are probably the most factual and evidentual statements on this web site ever (no disrespect to previous posters intended) but its so true, you will not find a car of the Scorps era with as much spec or toys within the price bracket they are being offered today and all because some people cannot see past the (superb) looks of the car. ???
such narrow mindedness, its untrue.......................

cheers

Dean ;)

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by ian on Feb 13^th, 2007, 8:13pm

on 01/24/07 at 14:54:30, Spannerdemon wrote:

BMW=Bigheaded Moron on Wheels. ;D ;D ;D

or
BMW = Bought Mainly by W@nkers
;D

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by cossie_al on Feb 13^th, 2007, 9:25pm

I have mentioned this before but as a youngster I did fall into the "must have an m3" croud.
And for a while did have one Full bmw service history all the spec that bmw offered etc etc.
So how did I find it?
Well I lost touch with a load of mates (couldnt afford a pint for the running costs)
and it was the victim of the mindless T**Ts with keys down the side etc.
Looking back I was glad to be rid of it. If I had to compare scorp ownership with m3 ownership lets just say what I paid for the m3 back then I could of had a nearly new scorp and would more than likely have still owned it today.

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by big_neil on Feb 14^th, 2007, 8:39am

you wouldn,t believe what my mate pays for servicing his M3 at a bmw dealership. i looked at his bill and said he was paying for the german world war two war effort, or at least supplementing it.

Title: Re: The general public are shallow
Post by cossie_al on Feb 14^th, 2007, 11:55am

on 02/14/07 at 08:39:55, big_neil wrote:

you wouldn,t believe what my mate pays for servicing his M3 at a bmw dealership. i looked at his bill and said he was paying for the german world war two war effort, or at least supplementing it.

I do believe how much he pays, but I dont believe that he's paying for the german ww2 effort because I was convinced I had payed it in full when I had mine ;D