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        General >> Off Topic Subjects >> Suprise from HMRC
        
(Message started by: sector-9 on Jun 18^th, 2007, 6:49pm)

Title: Suprise from HMRC
Post by sector-9 on Jun 18^th, 2007, 6:49pm

Got a letter on Saturday because I'm registered as a "fuel producer" (which to you and me means I run my car on cooking oil!). It says that as of the 30th June I won't need to fill in tax returns each month, neither will I have to - and get this - pay duty, as long as I 'produce' less than 2,500 litres per year.

That's assuming I've interpreted their de-minimis letter correctly. If so, I'm well chuffed, thanks Gordon!

Darren

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by mazzy_j on Jun 22^nd, 2007, 9:49pm

Yes Darren you're correct there :) Gordon seems to have finally seen sense:

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_PROD1_026553&propertyType=document#P4_82

Its rumered that theres going to be a cooking oil price war between the supermarkets... hopefully!

Matt

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by sector-9 on Jun 24^th, 2007, 11:27am

I buy 20ltr drums of oil for about £9.99 from the local wholesaler - and because they're foodstuffs, there's no VAT added either! Incidentally, you don't need to be trade to buy from the wholesaler I get oil from - just need to have proof of address and that you're employed.

Darren

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by mazzy_j on Jun 24^th, 2007, 1:36pm

hi Darren, hope you dont mind me asking but where abouts do you get your oil from? i usually buy the 15L plastic containers of the stuff from tesco or asda (about 8.40 per 15L) but i've ben told that the best place to go is either makro or costco but going on their sites i got the impression that its trade only so i never bothered :(

Matt

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by sector-9 on Jun 24^th, 2007, 7:35pm

Makro are indeed trade only - now I use Hyperama - the nearest to you is Peterborough I believe...

Darren

P.S.

I've never seen anything bigger than 3ltr bottles at asda or tesco, and at £1.88 for 3ltrs (plus the tax until recently) it was barely worth doing.

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by dan_the_man on Jun 24^th, 2007, 8:29pm

TOP BANANA :o ! I can see the second hand diesel scorpio's going up a little in value . I could even consider one myself ! I guess you go for 25 % real diesel in a tank !

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by pistonbroke on Jun 24^th, 2007, 9:27pm

Ok, I've got a Diesel Exec (go me!!1111!!!! ;D)

Can I really run it on fresh cooking oil without the tax numpties calling that an additive? I can't be bothered cooking up vats of chip fat and caustic soda in the garage but if I can use fresh veg oil then I want to play :)

There's all kinds of inconsistent, irrelevant and useless "advice" on t'interweb. C'est la vie as they say in French speaking parts of somewhere :-/

Is it really possible to do this?

Dave

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by Highlander on Jun 24^th, 2007, 9:45pm

My 96 Diesel estate runs on 100% filtered veggie oil straight from the local Indian takeaway. no diesel at all

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by sector-9 on Jun 26^th, 2007, 6:31pm

Pistonbroke - as of the 30th of June you will legally be able to run your car on cooking oil without having to:

a) Register as a 'fuel producer' with HMRC
b) Pay duty

This assumes of course that you won't be burning more than 2,500 litres of the stuff in any 12 month rolling period. I suggest you visit the link mazzy_j posted and print out a copy to keep in your car though, as I expect some rozzers won't be aware of this!

And yes, you can just pour vegie oil into your tank - that's exactly what I do. I've always used brand new stuff as even filtered I hear that used oil contains acids and salts from cooking (not sure if this is correct but I don't want to push my luck). Also, whilst my diesel will run on 100% cooking oil, it smokes a lot and misfires when starting from cold, and pinks a little until thoroughly warmed up. I've now reverted to 40ltrs veg/35ltrs diesel mix, though I'm going to experiment with adding a little white spirit to see if that'll help it run on higher concentrations without the side effects.

Darren

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by pistonbroke on Jun 27^th, 2007, 7:12am

Thanks Darren,

After all I've read searching the internet this seemed too good to be true. I'll print off all the documentation and keep it in the car - that's good advice ;).

The main reasons I got the diesel where to have a lower running costs car for general use and to keep the wear an tear down on the beloved 24v. A fair amount of the miles I do are spent visiting customers for work when I get paid 45p/mile - if the cost of the fuel used to do those miles comes down this much then SWMBO may finally believe that I did need a second Scorpio }{

And I'm saving the planet too ::) ;D

Dave

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by sector-9 on Jun 27^th, 2007, 9:02am

As long as you can do more than a mile on 45p then you'll be making a profit (unless you factor in the wear and tear). Don't forget that power and economy are slightly worse on cooking oil - not vastly - but about 2mpg less and 10mph off top end speed, however the engine will run smoother and with less clatter. You'll also need to change the fuel filter and engine oil more frequently.

Darren

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by Highlander on Jun 27^th, 2007, 1:26pm

Mine runs better on the cooking oil Darren, no smoke at all, it was quite bad on the diesel, if you stuck your foot to the floor everything in the rear view mirror turned black :)
Performance wise it feels more responsive.
When I first put the cooking oil into the Discovery I never let on and my other half mentioned it was quicker and quieter the first day she used it.

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Jun 27^th, 2007, 2:22pm

i find that mine likes pride vegetable oil, its cholestrol free ::), 10.50 for a 20ltr drum from my local indian grocer........ ;D

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by Highlander on Jun 27^th, 2007, 3:34pm

Just to point out, the above link is a PROPOSAL to a change in the law, I dont think anything has changed yet so you still need to adhere to the proper procedures

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by pistonbroke on Jun 27^th, 2007, 4:49pm

There's something more substantial HERE (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/excise-duty/brief4307.htm)

Dave

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by sector-9 on Jun 27^th, 2007, 7:41pm

on 06/27/07 at 15:34:32, Highlander wrote:

Just to point out, the above link is a PROPOSAL to a change in the law, I dont think anything has changed yet so you still need to adhere to the proper procedures

Nope- the letter I received states that 30th June is the date after which small quantity producers will not have to register. According to the website the proposal was quite some time ago and it is now being actioned.

Darren

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by pistonbroke on Jun 27^th, 2007, 9:39pm

on 06/27/07 at 19:41:53, sector-9 wrote:

That's the only reason I went on their utterly useless and confusing site to look for a link Darren. If they'd sent you a letter then there had to be something on there.

It amazes me that "we" actually pay to be dazed and confused by "them" at all times. It's a funny old world, hey...

Dave

Title: Re: Suprise from HMRC
Post by Highlander on Jun 27^th, 2007, 10:48pm

Well its still got three days to go until its law so its not in force yet ;)