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        General >> Off Topic Subjects >> Driving on hard shoulder.
        
(Message started by: gozz on Mar 5^th, 2008, 10:24pm)

Title: Driving on hard shoulder.
Post by gozz on Mar 5^th, 2008, 10:24pm

What a wonderful idea from the bowels of Westminster,let's "open up" the hard shoulder to allow vehicles more road space ! This silly idea does'nt even bear thinking about.It is well known and documented that the wider the road the more it fills with traffic.Imagine one breakdown on the now open hard shoulder,the resulting mayhem as following traffic has to get round it would be something to behold,and a breakdown in the traffic lanes with the escape route now full of speeding vehicles would almost certainly be fatal.Then of course there is the problem of emergency services being severely slowed or prevented from reaching their victims,you can't do it all with helicopters !
Its even dafter than 24 hour drinking,no doubt it's all about grasping more tax from Joe public,and the devil take the hindmost.
GOZZ ( am I in cloud cuckoo land or what )

Title: Re: Driving on hard shoulder.
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Mar 6^th, 2008, 7:07pm

i agree that it shouldnt be needed but i dont agree with your reasoning except the point about it being the route for emergency services.
the fact is its already been tested very successfully, but i dont believe it would be needed if the majority of d**kheads drove their cars properly on motorways; how many refer to a lane as 'the fast lane'? when there is no such thing, how many keep to the 2 second rule? middle lane owners club (as the police call them)? etc etc.
on another point i think 24 hour drinking laws should've been in place decades ago, the fact that they werent is partly to blame for the english 'binge' culture.....

Title: Re: Driving on hard shoulder.
Post by mr._floppy on Mar 8^th, 2008, 2:36pm

Madness.

A quick fix by a corrupt and lazy government.

Where are car breakdowns meant to go if the shoulder is used as a extra lane ?

Title: Re: Driving on hard shoulder.
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Mar 8^th, 2008, 3:22pm

that is a good point flop, however i understand it will only be used on certain stretches of m way at certain times of the day i.e. rush hour where the traffic is slow moving the use of the hard shoulder is to ensure the traffic keeps moving. personally i would prefer to see more traffic divisions employed to fine/endorse a/wipes that tailgate, lane change without looking, hog middle lane etc....

Title: Re: Driving on hard shoulder.
Post by TiberiuS on Mar 8^th, 2008, 6:10pm

Another point (apart from the obvious one of safety ::)) which nobody has made yet is that the hard shoulder isn't made to the same spec as the rest of the road, doesn't have the same depth of foundation/hardcore to cope with heavy traffic.

The condition of regular roads is bad enough, just think how bad a hard shoulder will be once it's been subjected to heavy traffic for 12 months :-/

It's the same with everything these days, rather than investing all the money from road tax into the road infrastructure like they should be doing, it all gets quietly squandered away and when something does go wrong it's always the fault of somebody or something else..

Title: Re: Driving on hard shoulder.
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Mar 8^th, 2008, 7:28pm

must say i didnt think about the quality of build of the hard shoulder, but a motorway is not a regular road; when a motorway needs repair it happens unlike regular roads.
folks seem to be getting the wrong idea about the hard shoulder scheme or rather its use; they seem to be under the impression that the idea is you can use the hard shoulder on any motorway at anytime, that is not the case according to the news report, it is only going to be used on selected motorways at defined times at known serious hot spots. so it might be that say for 50 mile of motorway only 1 mile of which you'll be able to use the hard shoulder, the scheme has also been endorsed by the rac.

Title: Re: Driving on hard shoulder.
Post by gozz on Mar 8^th, 2008, 10:53pm

Tali.
We know that,but vehicles will still break down and collide at any time in any lane anywhere !
GOZZ

Title: Re: Driving on hard shoulder.
Post by jonnycab on Mar 11^th, 2008, 12:40am

Seeing as 4x4s are designed for off-roading, then why not lay a dirt track alongside the motorway & make them use it ?....

.....It wouldn't cost much & might ease congestion a little ;)........ ;D

Title: Re: Driving on hard shoulder.
Post by Snoopy on Mar 11^th, 2008, 7:27am

The hard shoulder on Motorways is constructed to the same spec as the rest of the carriageway and has been since the late 80's .. only in the very early days were they made to a lower spec.

Title: Re: Driving on hard shoulder.
Post by TiberiuS on Mar 11^th, 2008, 7:31pm

Snoopy, I heard that on local (BBC) radio about 3 weeks back, they interviewed a chap from Highways or somewhere and that's what he said.

Even so it's a bad idea, it should be a temporary measure at most...volume of traffic will soon increase enough to fill the extra 'lane' and then there will be the same situation again a few years down the line, except that there won't be any hard shoulder to expand onto. Maybe purely as a temporary measure it'd be ok but you know it'll be there to stay and nothing will be done to ease the underlying problem :-/

Title: Re: Driving on hard shoulder.
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Mar 11^th, 2008, 9:41pm

apparently the gov have acknowledged that it is a temporary solution (as you mention tibs, that remains to be seen ::)). it has been used in europe for quite a while, holland and germany being mentioned as well as successful testing over here. plenty on here have raised the safety aspect, however the rac have endorsed it and i would suggest that all the emergency services were consulted in the plan, if not surely they would've raised their objections by now?
the ironic thing is the plan has probably come about due to ourselves, the motorist being absolutely defiant against road pricing. it is a very small temporary solution to a small area of congestion, but, it is also relatively cheap and easy to do (which is why the gov have run with it). they are also talking about introducing another idea; one lane of M way to be used solely by vehicles carrying more than one person (the sale of blow up dolls will suddenly quadrupule ;)).
personally im against the hard shoulder idea for reasons i mentioned earlier, but my idea of employing more traffic divisions would cost loadsa money, but i get really cheesed of driving down an empty inside lane undertaking stationary overtaking lanes cluttered with cheesed**ks bumper to bumper thinking they're being responsible by sitting there with hazard lights flashing.....jeeeeeeeeeez.
so what is the solution?
its obvious we cant carry on as we are, overloaded roads, the amount of cars increasing by an alarming rate etc etc
building more and more roads is not a solution and widening existing ones has a limit.
variable speed limits helps aleviate the problem but only on M ways, my way of thinking is also M way only (and may or may not work).
road pricing would quite likely work, but would cost absolute fortunes and the civil unrest would be amazing.
holland (i think) uses an idea that only allows you to drive on certain days according to registration letter (again more riots akin to road pricing).
christ knows what the solution is, but to me the outlook for motorists is very very bleak.......not to mention expensive....