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        General >> Off Topic Subjects >> Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
        
(Message started by: TiberiuS on Aug 19^th, 2008, 12:25am)

Title: Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
Post by TiberiuS on Aug 19^th, 2008, 12:25am

As on the BBC website tonight.

I've got a lot of misgivings about this whole thing. Now don't get me wrong - I don't agree at all with the idea of school kids walking around carrying knives and something obviously needs to be done...but I don't think this idea has been thought through at all and here's why.

I work in the building trade, I've carried a blade for years...why? Because it's a handy tool to have when I'm at work, like carrying a swiss army knife, a tool with a million uses. Now I won't carry it anymore because of the slim chance of being pulled by the plod for something completely unrelated and they happen to notice it and land me in a pile of trouble for it. Had to walk around for ages in B&Q the other day just to find the one member of staff who was health and safety trained to use a stanley knife to open a pack of 2x1's just so I could take one from the packet ???

I've been threatened with a knife twice in the past (never hurt, another story) and it's not a nice experience. But do you really believe that Jacqui Smith has any idea of the situation or what she's saying? Just say they banished knives completely from society tomorrow, would it have any effect whatsoever on violent crime? Never, because the minority intent on causing trouble would just go away and make a weapon out of something else. Just the same situation with guns, making tough sentences for carrying one and making them harder to get hold of just glamourised them more and made a black market to convert other weapons to be leathal. If I couldn't get a knife and I was intent on injuring someone, it doesn't take a lot of thought to realise I could just pick up a bottle or anything else which the plod couldn't call an offensive weapon. My old man used to say a gun was harmless, it was the person behind the trigger...and that is so true here.

What's this going to come to? Chucking people in cells because they were carrying a bottle of Stella?

I really feel for the families who are fronting this campaign and agree that something needs to be done. BUT knee jerk reactions which lead to sticking plaster measures which treat the symptom rather than the cause aren't going to help anyone in the long run, this is a problem rooted deep in society and it's not going to solve anything just by banning the next evil which people might use to hurt each other with.

I know some of you will disagree with this but wanted to put my point.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
Post by Jonnycab on Aug 19^th, 2008, 4:07pm

I know what you're saying Bruce.....I carry a swiss army type gadget in the boot of the car, not so can I get it out & threaten people, but purely because it's got lots of different tools on it that come in handy ie, screwdriver, corkscrew, scissors, nail file, sharpe knife for getting those unopenable packs of sandwiches open so as I don't starve to death etc ::)......but I've now taken it out, as I fear the same thing as you, being arrested purely for having what can be classed as a deadly weapon :-/

I don't think the government really know how to battle this problem anymore than the rest of us. Educating these oiks on the injuries that knives can cause doesn't work, they already know what damage they can cause, that's why they carry them ::)

I think it's just going to have to be the case that if you use a knife for convenient reasons, then it's going to have to be a sensible & conscious effort not to walk around with it on your person :)

Title: Re: Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
Post by gozz on Aug 19^th, 2008, 9:18pm

We are reaping the rewards of too many nosy parkers and dogooders ! In my time on the streets everything was sorted out fairly,bystanders would see to that.The dance halls only had one doorman,and they knew that if transgressions were in progress they would always receive the backing of the customers,if you carried a knife for use aganst the person you were a coward and outcast.The Constabulary were also fair minded,and if you pushed your luck you would expect a smack,those were the days when a copper's ability to uphold law and peace went unquestioned,today the poor sods may as well not bother,they are vilified and messed about,pushed from pillar to post,and due to gender 'equality'are dragged down in their ranks by tiny college eggheads and little girls.As my children grew up I was'nt averse to giving them a good clout if necessary,now the vociferous stupid human rights clowns would like to ban decent discipline.
No lads it's much too late now to do anything about the state of youth,most of em are normal of course,but the lunatic fringe is on the increase.Just make d**ned sure you do all you can to maintain vigilance and awareness,and steer clear of it,because you aint gonna stop it. :(
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
Post by big_neil on Aug 19^th, 2008, 9:38pm

tiberiuS,
like you i,ve carried a knife in my pocket all my working life (50yrs now) as a fisherman,gardener and lecky tradesman i would have been lost without it,so i suppose i,m breaking a law now.

Title: Re: Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
Post by scruffygyt on Aug 19^th, 2008, 10:30pm

why do knives have to be pointed anyway!

Title: Re: Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
Post by gozz on Aug 20^th, 2008, 10:00pm

Just as an addage,in case I missed the point,I really dont think mature working people with tools of their trade are in too much danger of falling foul of the law.If you went to a club with a Stanley knife in your pocket,you could have a hard time explaining to the doormen.There is still a modicum of common sense left I hope !
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
Post by Jonnycab on Aug 26^th, 2008, 12:18am

Gozz wrote...."There is still a modicum of common sense left I hope !"

It would appear not ???.....a few weeks ago, at Brentwood & Shenfield rail stations, police were frisking morning (city worker) commuters for knives, then frisking them again when they came home in the early evening ???.....

......late at night when all the knife wielding chavs come off the trains....guess what ?....not a copper in sight ::)

Title: Re: Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
Post by gozz on Aug 26^th, 2008, 12:55am

JC.
They have common sense alright :( !, that's how they keep statistics high without any risk to themselves :'(
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
Post by TiberiuS on Aug 26^th, 2008, 11:00pm

Hi guys, some good points made here. As my first post, don't get me wrong - I feel for the families of the people who've been victims, I don't in any way condone carrying a blade for use as a weapon/protection either...if you read my post fully, you'll understand this. I'm not a big man but I like to think I could look after myself if set upon, without resorting to any kind of weapon. Not to say the thought of being out somewhere and being set upon by someone wielding a blade doesn't bother me, it does but then it probably bothers most people and I'd never carry anything for this reason. But this isn't my point, I carry (or used to carry) a blade as a tool when I was at work and not for any other reason; I've never had a brush with the law in my 24 years on this earth, it bothers me that I could end up with a record just because I had something on my person that might be seen as an offensive weapon.

I feel their campaign is shortsighted and that it's the wrong approach to go around banishing everything on a whim in the vain hope of solving the underlying problem. If you banished knives completely, something else would be there to take their place - knives, like guns, cars, alcohol, computer games etc etc - aren't the problem, it's the people who use them for whatever purpose and the way society makes it seem acceptable. By taking everything away and enforcing more laws you just make life harder for the average Joe, it never affects the minority who caused the problem in the first place.

Problem is that there's no responsibility any more, if you do something stupid and screw up, there's always somebody to step forward and shoulder the blame. People go through life with no respect for anyone or anything and no self respect or worth and you end up with this moral ticking time bomb that we have now. If you got the kids on their first brush with the law and gave them a sharp shock and made them stand up and be responsible for what they'd done, maybe it'd help, maybe it'd just put more kids into the prison system and dig them further into the hole rather than get them out of it. There's no respect for society any more, the moral threads are being eaten away. Until you change the way kids are bought up and educated, the problem's only going to get worse...are the powers that be really too shallow to understand that or is it that they just don't care? The problem we've got is rooted deep and I don't think anybody really knows a sure-fire way of solving it :-/

Title: Re: Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Sep 28^th, 2008, 10:48pm

knife fights/knife crime has been around since the dawn of time, the gang fights in glasgow in the 1920's involving over 200 carrying blades, werent switch blades made illegal in this country due to the teddy boy gangs in the fifties? spurs and liverpool hooligans were known for blade carrying in the 70's.
i think the modern problem has 2 main points, the amount of kids carrying knives, and the fact that the majority of them are black.
i dont know what the answers are, i know it isnt ideal i.e. small kids will get bullied into carrying them for others, but i do think kids caught with knives should be locked up for a minimum of 5 years, possibly more, this obviously has other problems when they are released though.
i am totally sick of seeing people coming on tv telling me my tax money should be given too/spent on these 'poor kids' who have a bleak future....yeah bo**ocks, i hear non stop whinging saying they're in gangs because there's nothing else to do? excuse me? sport is more affordable and accessible than ever, bus, tube, tram and dlr travel is free (in london) to u16's if they apply, there are colleges, after school projects etc, clubs, every household has tv, dvd and most have computers and plenty have x boxes etc
as for marching through london against knife crime...why? isnt it stating the obvious......oh well, rant over....

Title: Re: Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
Post by Jonnycab on Oct 1^st, 2008, 1:45am

Glad to see you back on form Phil ;)..... ;D

Title: Re: Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
Post by peteHull on Oct 1^st, 2008, 6:56am

I used to carry a bag full of weapons with me every day, I had a 9inch blade which was VERY sharp cos I used to be forever honing it, probably for 5/6 hours a day.
I had a couple of silleto type blades which were always handy for getting things on the level. I had a big club which weighed 3lbs and was very handy for smashing and cutting.... I always had a long lengh of chord which along with the stilletto blades could really measure up and strighten things out.... I had a type of ice pick with serated edges on either end which could really be used for chipping away at the edge of problems... I also had a 3 foot long lump of aluminium, when people saw this they would be able to clearly see that I wanted evrything on MY level. I never ever got stopped by PC plod or any off his co-horts cos they knew I would have a good foundation for the need of such weapons as I was always dressed quite scruffy when I went out with the weapon bag. I never went to pubs or clubs with it and I never went shopping with it, instead I always stuck to frequenting derelict areas, empty houses/ factories and places where not many of the public would go.

OK I've had enough of this now, you probably guessed.... I was a Brickey... I used the weapons to build things, to try and strighten out damaged buildings and build new ones, most of the time I was that tired by the time I went home, I couldn't be bothered to go clubbing etc, I had EARNED my money with good hard toil which made it more valuable then if it had been delivered to me by 'Giro' (ho that's a very old fashioned word nowadays isn' it? They pay it into Bank accounts for them now don't they.... I never had one of those)

The nine inch blade was my trusty trowel, it was kept sharp while laying bricks and blocks, the stilletto's were line pins used for stringing a line to work to (guidance)
The club was a lump hammer used with a bolster chisel for cutting bricks... the ice pick thing is a 'scutch' used for trimming cut bricks etc (dressing) The chord was a brick line used with the line pins in laying long courses of walling and the 3foot aluminium was my trusty level, an absolute essential part of a brickies toolkit. I was also a plasterer but I won't bother to explain all those tools....

To sum up... I think the situation is becomming more desperate day by day, it is obvious that the leaders of the nations are finding it more difficult to cope... I have always said that one day the people will just throw thier hands in the air and give up trying..... IT IS HAPPENING NOW.... :'(

Nuff said

Pete

Title: Re: Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Oct 1^st, 2008, 11:51am

a brickey....oh yes i see, i was wondering if you were a baby fur seal hunter.....

Title: Re: Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
Post by gozz on Oct 1^st, 2008, 4:27pm

tali.
I was hoping he was going to tell us an"Ull trarlerman" was his calling ;)
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Becks and Ferdinand back knife campaign
Post by peteHull on Oct 1^st, 2008, 4:47pm

Aint been many of them round here for years Gozz, it's all B&Q, Comet, DFS and Makro etc now. I just recently had to go all the way to Fraserborough to see trawlers...

She tried though did Lilly..... just shows how things can change....

Pete