Ford Scorpio Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> Problems >> PATS
        
(Message started by: SaveTheNight on Sep 24^th, 2004, 7:13pm)

Title: PATS
Post by SaveTheNight on Sep 24^th, 2004, 7:13pm

Hi all ..has anyone experienced this or can advise please ? ... customer of ours up north is stuck .. driving around fine for last few days and parked up last night ..came out this morning and scorp cossie won't start ..pats related and flashing 1-6 < lost iso / pcm / pats module .. he has all the keys including red ..red key will start program sequence but will not allow the rest or completion and it won't start with the red either ..no battery or known faults ..no wiring probs and so on.. as Tommy Cooper would have said ..just like that !!..any views will be appreciated or is it off to FDS2000 monday ?? regards ... STN
ps. I guess what i'm asking is does anyone have any idea what may have spiked the module > or had this happen with any resolvement OTHER than with FDS computer ..

Title: Re: PATS
Post by George on Sep 24^th, 2004, 7:55pm

hi stn
i had the same problem with my 24v it was flashing the same code i tried everything and found it to be the big green relay in the fuse box on the passenger side the fuel injection pump relay what that has got to do with the pats system i dont know but it cured it hope that helps but if not sorry

Title: Re: PATS
Post by SaveTheNight on Sep 24^th, 2004, 9:58pm

I'll have to think about that one George and try to understand it ..and thankyou ..obviously the PATS cuts starter AND fuel pump so I see the connection ..but I can't quite see it interupting the module to pcm signal ...although many systems draw voltage from the fuel pump relay ..hmm ..and if yours was also flashing 1-6 then perhaps the code isn't to be entirely trusted .. I'll certainly see if it's the same on this one though ... thanks again ... was yours as sudden with no prior faults ? and might you have done other things at the same time as the relay without realising ..or was it change relay sorted and start up ? ... was yours not cranking ..or not starting when cranking perhaps ?? .. regards ...STN

Title: Re: PATS
Post by George on Sep 26^th, 2004, 8:08pm

No it just happened one day, it cut out it was cranking but not starting, and flashing that code. I disconnected the battery and left for a while, then reconnected and it started fine. When i was in the fuse box trying to find the problem i banged the fuel pump relay and it stopped so i wobbled the relay whilst cranking it over and it started, so i changed the relay end of problem.

Title: Re: PATS
Post by SaveTheNight on Oct 3^rd, 2004, 8:41am

update ! ....... still stuck here .. Car is back with us now and have thoroughly investigated .. there is PATS flashing 1-6 .. with no cranking of course .. no nothing in fact ! ... aerial from the key barrel transducer is ok .. new fuse box and it has never been a water problem car either ..wiring seems fine .. most relays sustituted .. all fuses double checked .. new battery recently .. red key is here as are three others and all seem fine ..red key will go into program mode but won't allow other keys to go in sequence .. this is a very clean 95 / 24v with no previous faults to speak of and running all over the country two weeks ago .. one morning last week ..bang ! PATS .. I can't give any real info as there seem to be no gremlins even as a guide .. has anyone at all suffered from this ?? ..heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp !
all comments appreciated before I take the car to bits for perhaps a simple fault < gut feeling > ... ?? thanks ......STN

Title: Re: PATS
Post by Snoopy on Oct 3^rd, 2004, 10:13am

I take it you have done another system reset?

Title: Re: PATS
Post by Danny_R on Oct 3^rd, 2004, 10:46am

STN, I don’t know if you recall a problem I was having about 6 months ago whereby the car would not deadlock and the alarm would randomly go off.

I did strip down the whole of the PATS system and this is what I found:

1) if ANY of the wiring from the ignition lock barrel back to the PATS module which is in the passenger side foot well on the right enclosed in a steel frame, is tampered with or connections disturbed, the car will NOT crank at all.

2) if any of the wiring between the pats box, aux fuse box and the smallest black wire with the o-ring on the negative terminal of the battery is disconnected, the car WILL crank but with not fire. Further more the fuel pump will not open and the LED on the top of the dash will flash very rapidly.

My fuel cut-off button in the boot was jammed between on and off and would sometimes fluctuate between the two causing non starting, cranking but not firing and problems with the deadlocking system.

I know you know your stuff and have probably tried most of these things but these are just some things I stumbled across when doing mine

HTH

Danny R

Title: Re: PATS
Post by SaveTheNight on Oct 3^rd, 2004, 11:30am

thanks Danny and yes I've mostly checked all that .. bypassed the fuel shut off but all was ok anyway .. battery resets have no effect at all .. transducer around ignition barrel is fine ..havent actually eyeballed the module yet as I thought these were IN the EEC on this model although earlier ones had the footwell module so i'll check .. fuel pump can be run from the fuel pump relay.. remove the relay < green in battery side> and the car cranks fine so no battery or starter probs .. this is definitely PATS but hmmmm ... I guess it probably will end up ohms checking every part of the system in the end but I really appreciate these comments in case someone just twiggs it ... FORD did WDS it apparently up north but were just about to start with the old banter about replacing the EEC .. PCM .. wiring loom ..etc ..before we hopefully rescued it .. kepp all thoughts coming if poss lads !! ......regards ...STN

Title: Re: PATS
Post by Snoopy on Oct 3^rd, 2004, 1:55pm

How come you get ALL the difficult ones... Is 'cause you are really a big softie!

I have my thinking cap on but its not working very well.

Title: Re: PATS
Post by SaveTheNight on Oct 3^rd, 2004, 2:26pm

haha !! maybe Snoops maybe .. or perhaps " where angels fear to tread " too !! ... nah .. I do get easy peasy ones too Snoops .. tricky ones are pretty useful though in the forum ..cos if they get solved then it can save thousands for members that would be stuck with Ford only .. < although I may be stuck with Ford only myself soon !! arghhhhhhh !! no.. no .. i'll find it if even I have to do a Clint Eastwood and Clive on it !! !! >

Title: Re: PATS
Post by SaveTheNight on Oct 9^th, 2004, 9:28pm

further update !!

Pats module is kaput .. a different module with another key taped to the ignition barrel transducer , gives cranking .. spark ..partial fuel relay energising ..but no injectors opening < live at the injector loom but not receiving signal..therefore the pats module has blown the EEC ..or a part of it < a repair at the very least > .. changed EEC and car starts up < only ran for a few secs in case of damaging the trial EEC ...now to find out why.. and what has blown it ? ... wiring no doubt but ...hmmm .. i'll keep all informed .... cheers ...STN

ps. would still appreciate any ideas or similar stories ??