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        General >> Problems >> 1992 Granada/Scorpio ABS problem
        
(Message started by: Fiestaxr2 on Oct 9^th, 2004, 10:24pm)

Title: 1992 Granada/Scorpio ABS problem
Post by Fiestaxr2 on Oct 9^th, 2004, 10:24pm

First of all, I know this forum is intended for 1995+ model.
But since I'm stuck, I hope for some tolerance from fellow Ford Scorpio owners. 8)
I just bought a nice object, 1992 Scorpio estate, 2.9i automatic, ABS, all elctric etc etc.. ;D
The brakes looked and sounded like derailed train, if that is a fair description.. ???
I then changed all discs, all brake pads, both rear brake-hoses, and right rear wheelbearing.. + both rear calipers, because of the handbrake, which had to be shisseled back :o
Now the brakes work fine most of the time, therefore this request :
When driving very slowly, like parking, the ABS sometimes kicks in.. especially when turning .. Why??
Also, when driving tonight, the pad-wear-indicator-lamp flashes, or turns on.. Just whenever it wants to.. No particular driving situation.. Any ideas?

Last question: When changing the rear wheelbearing(s) right side, I thought the splined shaft looked weird somehow.
After dismantling slackening the driveshaft axle and removing the wheel and brake disc.I pulled out the driveshaft axle at the same time sinse I was going to renew the rubber gaiter.
I then removed the four bolts which holds the hub.
The center part where its splines on the inside, was stuck inside the hub.. When pulling it out the outer wheelbearing'inner parts came out through the oilseal..
This part, where the wheelbearing where stuck. Had two diameters.. the part where the wheelbearing where stuck had the same diameter as the bearing. but the inner part where the inner wheelbearing could have ben, it seemed like the diameter where worn down, to 1mm smaller diameter.. Shouldn't the diameter be the same all the way through?
I should mention that the inner part of the inner wheelbearing had very fanzy colors? blue/brown and some dark red.. + the bigger side of the inner-ring had a mirror like finish.. = totally worn out.
Question: Do I need to replace the inner hub-part?

I hope someone can help me, I apologize for any bad english.
Best regards Norwegian Scorpio owner.

Title: Re: 1992 Granada/Scorpio ABS problem
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 9^th, 2004, 10:29pm

hi there

i'm not sure about your problem but you could try......http://www.granada-and-scorpio-online.com/

our web page is at.....http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/abssystem.htm if that helps any.

hth

Title: Re: 1992 Granada/Scorpio ABS problem
Post by Badboytunes on Oct 9^th, 2004, 11:19pm

Hi m8. I had a 1992 scorpio granada that did the same thing. I never had problems with the brakes but wen parking and especially on a full lock the abs would come on. I just got used to it. it did it from day one and i had the car for 2 yrs....

HTH
Cheers Nick

Title: Re: 1992 Granada/Scorpio ABS problem
Post by Vulcan on Oct 10^th, 2004, 2:13am

Yep my 1990 Grannie Ghia did the same... pulsing pedal at full lock at low speeds... as Nick said I just put it down to the character of the car and lived with it.
As for the pad wear indicator light, it sounds like the wire is worn and earthing somewhere... possibly it will only touch on heavy lock.. worth checking if there is any exposed wire on the cable.

Title: Re: 1992 Granada/Scorpio ABS problem
Post by David_South_West on Oct 10^th, 2004, 9:41am

Pulsing pedal could be one of the front sensor wires shorting on full lock(stretched or chafing.)
Good luck

Title: Re: 1992 Granada/Scorpio ABS problem
Post by SaveTheNight on Oct 10^th, 2004, 9:59am

dealt with this fault many times over the years and as the lads say those faults are common ..but the main reason has turned out to be the air gap between the sensors and drive shaft sensor rings being incorrect for one of two reasons : firstly that there are 2 different lengths of sensor on Granadas so if someone has fitted the wrong sensor < almost indistinguishable when fitting > then that will cause this fault .. secondly and more common is that the sensors have a dirt build up or rust build up at the point where the sensor sits in the hub ..ie: remove the sensor carefully and clean the housing and sensor plate < where the 10ml bolt fits > before refitting the sensor ..clean and waterproof grease the connections at the first wiring link along the chassis member inside the engine bay and that should cure it ....... regards ........STN
ps. if you feel like resistance/ohms checking the sensor wire while the connector is undone then that will also eliminate the sensor itself < unlikely to be the problem in your case though > ... hth ....
pps. any play in the front bearings wil change the sensor air gap slightly on full lock ..

Title: Re: 1992 Granada/Scorpio ABS problem
Post by Eric_R on Oct 10^th, 2004, 11:14am

...and a third reason for an incorrect gap on the ABS hub sensing ring is a hub bearing breaking up, and this sounds like the case with uneven wear on the bearing.

It sounds like the hub is failing now, scorpioman, and this would cause the ABS warning activation. I think you suspect that you need to change the hub, and if the bearings are as you describe I would do that, because its only a matter of time before the bearing races break up. Examine the hub surfaces for damage. If they are marked or scored you'll need to replace the hub complete rather than just the bearings.
Once the bearings are spinning properly the ABS light should not illuminate again.

Title: Re: 1992 Granada/Scorpio ABS problem
Post by Fiestaxr2 on Oct 10^th, 2004, 11:56am

Thanx for replys.. :D
I disasembled the rear ABS sensors, and on the right one, with the bad wheelbearing, the where a big lump of metall-debris.. Seems like the senson itself is magnetic?!
The front sensors wouldn't bodge at all, they will twist, but not come out. I don't feel like using a shisel and hammer on them, but I could maybee try some patience?

I might have forgotten to tell you that I have replaced the rear wheelbearing, sinse I could twist the r.rear wheel at 9-3o'clock. The wheel could twist about 1cm..sideways, which felt real strange when driving.. :-/
But I feel the replacing could be wasted if the center og the hub i faulty. i.o.t. it will ruin the new bearings in no time at all.

Another thing, the ABS problem occured after all the brake parts where replaced with new parts..

Could there be any problems with air in the braking system?
I'm lucky enough to have a Haynes, but I don't know which bleeding procedure to use. As they describe to different procedures.. before and after april 1992.. I belive I have the later version, because I have the facelifted version. 8)
The brakes feel firm, but I thought that air might cause the ABS to get hickups??
As described, the ABS problem wasn't there before replacing all the brake parts.. And, there's no sideplay in the rear wheel now, even though I think the centerhub is faulty..

Any ideas please?

Title: Re: 1992 Granada/Scorpio ABS problem
Post by Fiestaxr2 on Oct 10^th, 2004, 12:03pm

;)Hi again. just remembered ..
How come the car feels perfect when driving straight? I mean, at normal speeds, 30-100mph.. No fading in brakes, no rattle or twitching..
But when turning into the parking-lot in front of work, the ABS pump goes bananas, and pulsates like he.. !
Really strange.. ???
But, the car is certainly good to drive all over.. I'm just a little afraid the ABS problem will fail the MoT which is just round the corner. Did your cars make the MoT with the ABS problem?

Title: Re: 1992 Granada/Scorpio ABS problem
Post by Eric_R on Oct 10^th, 2004, 12:46pm

Fiesta,

Yep, this is a well-known phenomenon, caused by the use of the wrong diameter pressure pipe in the PAS system. This is the subject of several TSB's:- see
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faults.htm and http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/revisions.htm

I have had the pressure pipe replaced on my cossie and this stops that judder altogether.

BTW, you might notice a vibration after servicing on the car where the front suspension has been on full droop for a while. This vibration is common and is nothing to worry about. It will pass after a few journeys.

Incidentally, both these are dealt with on http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/topfaq.htm - have you checked out that page? :D

Title: Re: 1992 Granada/Scorpio ABS problem
Post by Fiestaxr2 on Oct 10^th, 2004, 3:40pm

Hi Eric, and everybody else !
I don't think it's my power steering that causes the problem.
I belive the center-hub axle should be the same diameter all through, so that the wheelbearing have one surface to land on..
When out driving the last hour, I found out that when driving sport-style ;) .. Sometimes the rear of the car makes a sudden sideways shift.. like the rearwheel should have moved 2-4 cm to one side.
I belive the wheelbearings are under much pressure, since the inner race of the inner bearing don't have a surface to transfer the G-powers..
This way the centershaft can "wobble" a little bit, just so much that the splined surface for ABSsensor touches the inside ov the rear suspension arm. This way it works like a grinder, therefore the metal debris inside the ABSsensor hole.
What do you think??

By the way, the wear indicator lamp returned to off position after reconnecting the left rear plug.. Somehow it had popped halfway out.. Put some el-tape on it since the small plastic clip had broken.