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        General >> Problems >> Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
        
(Message started by: geraghtyg on Oct 19^th, 2004, 12:29am)

Title: Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
Post by geraghtyg on Oct 19^th, 2004, 12:29am

Hi
Not really a problem but just something I noticed recently. I have noticed that if I drive the car with gearbox set to the ice mode, the car appears to into O/D much earlier than normal. When driving in E mode, the gearbox goes into O/D at an indicated speed of 49mph, as long as there is light load and light accelaration at the time. However, if I drive in ice mode, the box seems to shift up to O/D at about 34/35mph. This will mean that if I am driving at say 40mph in E mode and press the ice button, the revs will drop from around 2000RPM down to about 1800RPM.
What I would really like to know is; Would the fuel economy at medium speeds (ie:34mph-49mph where the O/D is not normally engaged) be improved due to the revs being lower?
Also, if it would help lower consumption, would it also put extra wear and tear and possibly premature failure of the torque convertor due to driving like this. I would imagine that the torque convertor would definitly wear out quicker driving in ice mode due to starting off in second gear. I imagine this would be equivalent to clutch wear on a manually gearboxed car due to the extra "riding" of the clutch to enable a smooth start in 2nd.
At the moment, when driving on a long, flat, straight road with a speed limit of 40 mph, I switch the gearbox into ice mode giving a rev drop of about 200RPM. Am I wasting time by pressing this button because in reality it doesn't give increased fuel consumption? Am I leading my torque convertor to an early grave? Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon?
And finally, do I just have a duff box???

Could I ask any more questions??? ;)

Title: Re: Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
Post by geraghtyg on Oct 19^th, 2004, 12:30am

Just noticed I'm a junior member again after the server crash. Woo hoo ;D

Title: Re: Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
Post by Dean on Oct 19^th, 2004, 1:02am

Hi Mate
i have also been demoted from a junior back to a newbee, as you, a result of the crash.........sorry can't help you with your question from experience but at a guess i'd say that what you gain in ecconomy from dropping into O/D at lower revs might be lost by the box staying in O/D too long if you need to accelerate at any time(even just a little) ??? i don't know as i say its just a guess ? and who knows the possible damage this might cause to the converter or the box ?

cheers

Dean ;)

Title: Re: Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
Post by Phil_Waller on Dec 17^th, 2004, 4:33pm

Interesting.... I might try this out later..

I think you would have to be carefull that you dont labour the box.. if you use it to cruise and are good with pressing between e and snowflake you are overiding the ECC V and getting a little more economy...

Title: Re: Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
Post by JohnJ on Dec 17^th, 2004, 4:45pm

Yes indeed an intereting theory, but as you know the most economical speed is 56mph and the box doesnt get into OD til 50mph I would imagine putting the engine and gearbox under that sort of labour would cause vibration and do the both no good. so therefore i dont believe you would get any more miles per gallon out of the Scorpio as you still have to get to 56mph before you are at optimum speed by which time the OD is already engedged.

Deep breath ahhhhhhh

JJ

Title: Re: Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
Post by mr._floppy on Dec 17^th, 2004, 5:13pm

I would tend to think that when Ford put a E ( i.e. Economy ) option on the gearbox , they designed it to be used for maximum MPG.

Reading my handbook it says that in the "ICE" position the gearbox selects 2nd gear , rather than 1st gear as the initial ratio to discourage wheelspin.

I'm of the opinion that O/D is really only for motorway and over 55 mph running , I turn it off most of the time.

Title: Re: Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
Post by Phil_Waller on Dec 18^th, 2004, 2:42pm

yep all makes sense..

I tried this earlier.. I would say that if you were travelling along a long road at 40 mph then you could engage the O/D earlier.. and save a few mpg.

I would advise not to do it though really.... The torque convertor will get hot and could lead to premature failure..

Title: Re: Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
Post by geraghtyg on Dec 20^th, 2004, 2:29pm

Thanks John, Phil and Mr Floppy ???
I'll not manually switch in the O/D prematurly in future so. Sounds like any (tiny) savings I make fuel economy wise could cost a fortune with future gearbox/torque convertor problems. Still gear box is still going fine at nearly 93,000 miles ;D

Title: Re: Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
Post by Vulcan on Dec 21^st, 2004, 9:09am

How do you switch the o/d in manually? I know that you can switch it off by hitting the green button but it is on by default and doesn't kick in till 50mph anyway.
I never usually touch the o/d button unless I am wanting to accellerate hard when I will switch it off.

Also I thought the ICE setting was only for initial moving off when the box selected 2nd gear as it's initial ratio to prevent spinning wheels, I normally only switch it on to move off then back to E when moving.

Title: Re: Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
Post by Badboytunes on Dec 21^st, 2004, 11:40am

Hi Vulcan,
you have answered ur own questions m8y ;D the ice mode selects 2nd for pull off reducing the possiblility of wheelspin and you can lock out the OD but not "put it on" earlier.

HTH
Cheers Nick ;)

Title: Re: Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
Post by Phil_Waller on Jan 7^th, 2005, 10:32am

I forgot to post..

I did some tests on this over the Xmas period..

The conclusion is that yes you can engage the overdrive before 49/50 mph..

The additional 2-3 instantanious MPG it gives is minimal to overall MPG. It also needs manual intervention and you need to remember it is engaged...

My advice is that it 'could' possible put more pressure on the engine and box. Overall it is a false conomy but interesting none the less.

P

Title: Re: Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
Post by Vulcan on Jan 7^th, 2005, 10:57am

Phil, can you explain to me how you manually make the overdrive kick in?

On mine I just select Drive and press the loud pedal, it pops up through the gears until it reaches about 50 mph when I perceptibly see the revs drop as the overdrive kicks in. I can stop the overdrive by hitting the green button but I can't for the life of me think of a way to make O/D engage before it is happy to do so.

Title: Re: Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
Post by scorpio_man on Jan 7^th, 2005, 11:28am

hi there

it's all in the first post. if you put in into ice mode (*), then all the gear changes from 2nd gear will be sooner, so o/d (gearbox warm first) will start at 35-40 mph instead of 47-51mph.

i think that what they mean. ???

hth

Title: Re: Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
Post by Vulcan on Jan 7^th, 2005, 12:56pm

I now see what you mean... I only have one qualm with it now I understand.
All my automatic driving knowledge comes from what I read in the manual of how to drive an auto that I got with my old Carlton CD.
The Carlton had an ICE positon and it too was marked with a * but the manual said that this position was for MOVING OFF only under very icey or snowy conditions and that it should be switched off as soon as the vehicle was moving and never used over 20 mph.
I have looked through the Scorp handbook and it has nothing at all like this but since I read it for the Carlton it sunk in and I would get the collywobbles doing it with any autobox.

Maybe it isn't the same with the Scorp.. I dunno but once you get an idea that something will break doing it from whatever source you got it, it's difficult to shake that idea.

Title: Re: Overdrive in snow/Ice * mode
Post by Phil_Waller on Jan 7^th, 2005, 1:00pm

Yep you are right which is why I did some tests.. It deffinately engages O/D earlier than normal. Obviously it pulls away in 2nd, not sure what happens in the other gears but it does appear to change earlier.. My test were purely on economy changes.. I am at work at the moment and havent got the figures but it is literally a few MPG but you are possibly labouring the engine if you need to accelerate..

As others have written.. The gearbox was designed as it is and I am sure they spend £0000s! on its testing for the optimum economy.

P