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Title: Loom repair Post by Lovely_lady on Nov 13th, 2004, 8:50am I believe that a part of my loom in the engine bay has lost the black covering which I presume insulates the internal wiring does any one know what I should use to insulate these wires.However the wires are not perished but need to be covered so that they do not get damaged Thanks ;) |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by craig on Nov 13th, 2004, 9:02am woulden't use electrical tape....... is it not possible to cut out the damaged wiring,and replace with identical wire,ok,time consuming and fiddly,but will save you a small fortune,just trying to think who managed to do this repair on the site ???,if they read this no doubt they will post........................... good luck with it all,and if you choose the latter option,make sure you use quality connectors..... |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by Fitzy on Nov 13th, 2004, 10:04am hi Lovely-Lady The person you need to speak to is Big-Bear apparently he's repaired a few looms over the years using the proper if not better wires, he's your man. just browse thru the problem and news pages and you'll find one of his posts then just send him a message. HTH Fitzy ;) ;D ;) |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by Goldwinger on Nov 13th, 2004, 11:36am I repaired the loom on my 24v as Craig says it is a bit time consuming. I did mine one wire at a time soldering in the new wire and using heat shrink on the joints. When I had replaced all the wires (about 35 if I remember) I bound the wires together with self amalgamating tape. The job took me about a day and a half taking off the inlet manifold and injection bits and bobs. |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by colinw on Nov 13th, 2004, 2:20pm are you talking just about the outer black sleving that keeps the cables in the loom together or the actual cables themselves if its the first try some plastic split conduit from a good motor factors and wrap the lot up in self almalmagating tape ,what year and model is your car ,if its a 24v around 95 then i would suggest you get the whole loom checked as when you start to disturb it you will probably find yourself with it falling apart ,and the best solution then is to repair everything using soldered joints and heat shrink sleeving or you could try my option which was to split the 2 looms and avoid anything going through the V and resting on the block this avoids any further problems with heat and water completly Colin |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by Lovely_lady on Nov 13th, 2004, 4:04pm Hi Colin, I was talking about the black tubing caseing which keeps all the diffrent wires in. It is a cossie 95.There is only a small section that shows the wires the rest is still covered does this mean the internal wires would be damaged ??? because unfortunately I am not brill at these things however the support from all members on this site and info available is definately giving me insight and help in gaining some knowledge thanks for the info any more guidance is always appreciated :D |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by Big_Bear on Nov 13th, 2004, 4:38pm Hiya Lovely Lady, Big Bear here. Just caught your thread, I'm in Spain at the mo'. I think you're saying that it is the loom wrap that is faulty? If the coloured plastic insulation is intact then you can tidy up and wrap the loom with self almalgamating tape. This is a strange rubber tape that has to be stretched as it is wrapped around the cables, and, it only sticks to itself, after it has been stretched. If you ain't sure and would like to shout at me upon my return to the UK I would be glad to help. If the actual coloured insulation is brittle and cracked, the repair becomes a little more fiddly, but not impossible. Finally I finished my repaired looms with a black wrap around plastic spiral that looks quite professional when complete. If ya do need a bit of help either leave a message here or send me an email. I should be able to pick the replies up here, but unfortunately I only have dial here..............yeuk! Oh well, back to the sun deck and my vodka and orange juice, sorry.......... Regards, Barry...................BBBBBBBBBBB |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by colinw on Nov 13th, 2004, 4:42pm what part of the loom can see you see the damage is it near to the connectors on the inner wing ?? or where it disappears into the engine block ,from what you have described i would guess it is just the protective sleeve and not the cables them selves ,so i would suggest get yourself off to a decent motor factors and buy some flexible conduit this is usually black and looks like a flexible water pipe but is split along one side and you can cut it to length and just feed over the damaged part then seal it with self almalagating tape hope this helps Colin |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by Lovely_lady on Nov 13th, 2004, 4:50pm :)Thanks Big Bear I was told that you were the 1 who was ace on looms have a gr8 holiday and a few drinks for me and yes I would appreciate some help from you on your return to the sunny uk |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by Lovely_lady on Nov 13th, 2004, 5:01pm Hi Colin, Yes your right so I will be of 2 the right place first thing monday morning so thanks for the info have a good weekend ;) |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by colinw on Nov 13th, 2004, 5:08pm ok glad to help but i would try to get the convulted type pipe with a split in as opposed to the spiral i think big bear is talking about as the pipe completly encloses the loom so you dont need so much tape ,apologies big bear if ive got it wrong but i think the stuff you are talking about leaves part of the loom exposed ,again apologies if i miss understood your input colin |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by Eric_R on Nov 13th, 2004, 7:00pm Lovely Lady - At the very best, replacing individual wires can only be a temporary measure. The control loom carries low voltage signals between the sensors on the engine and the EECV Powertrain Control Module (PCM). see http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/dohcloom.htm The wiring is essential for timing, ignition, fuelling and diagnostics. If the wires are losing signals, shorting or ghosting and causing a misfire then the catalyst can be damaged by unburnt fuel, while a serious short in the loom could cause a failure of the PCM - and they are up to £800 to replace. I strongly advise that you buy a new loom from http://www.fordpartsuk.com/ where it should cost less than £90, and you can fit it yourself in an hour or so. The write up is on the page I quoted. IMHO trying to repair the loom could be a false economy. |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by colinw on Nov 13th, 2004, 7:14pm Eric am i missing something here ,but i did not realise you could buy any part of the loom for a 24v and certainly not for around £100 i remember when i did mine ford told me i would need a complete loom and that would be about 500 of your hard earned pounds please sir thats if we can get the right one !! thats why if you remember i rebuilt mine and rerouted it away from the v perhaps im misreading the problem here and i certainly would not like to give out the wrong advise but perhaps we are talking about different looms colin |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by Paul B on Nov 13th, 2004, 7:48pm There's been a lot of talk of these looms being & not being available for 90 quid over the past few days. Perhaps someone should find out for sure if they are readily available or not and share their findings with us. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by colinw on Nov 13th, 2004, 8:21pm Paul do you know if we are talking the complete loom here ie from the 2 inner wing connectors through to the gearbox and all the engine sensors ,because having repaired this loom myself with it completly removed from vehicle ,i dont beleive it can be manufactured for much less than £90.00 let alone sold for that amount further more it is certainly not possible to just renew part of it ,bearing in mind ford in my opinion made a very bad design in the first place ,as the whole loom is in fact 2 seperate looms one for gearbox one for engine ,but they put a common connector into it right in the middle of V to make it one loom ,i have in fact now got 2 seperate ones on my 24v and have had no problems at all but bearing in mind i used about 60-70metres of cable to do it i dont think it can be sold that cheaply ,and to renew it would take a lot of labour ie dropping the box and removing the inlet manifolds etc would also make it damm expensive but as i stated earlier perhaps im misunderstanding something here and talking about the wrong loom colin |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by SaveTheNight on Nov 13th, 2004, 9:06pm Eric is talking about the dohc looms ..the Cossie is one loom in the position that lovely _lady is referring to ..the dohc " fuel cut off looms" are available around £80-90 for the " fuel cut off loom " bit the Cossie loom is complete and £700-800 quid < not available even when the agents tell you they may be > .. he's not wrong as he wrote most of the articles ..he's just mistaken the model .. |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by Paul B on Nov 13th, 2004, 9:13pm Colin... I'm afraid I don't have a clue exactly. Never been there on mine. But I think there is some confusion here regarding costs, etc. Not sure if these links can make it any clearer but replacement cost is stated as 4-figures :o http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/24vlooms.htm http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faults_wiring.htm |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by SaveTheNight on Nov 13th, 2004, 9:22pm back to lovely's gearbox prob .. firstly lovely ..taping the loom wrap with anything is better than leaving it open to the elements as there are many resistance dependant wires in the loom ..so initially just use simple insulation tape .. this will also help to prevent the wires you are seeing from " fooling you " about the gear problem .. next is to look for your actual fault which is likely to be the wiring from the inhibitor switch gearbox end up over the top of the gearbox in three metal clips and then up to the back of the cylinder heads .. probably need a moderately competant mechanic to do this but not costly .. first is to undo the quite complicated clip at the box end < few mins > ..then reach over the top of the box and release the loom from its spring metal clips ..< this is supposed to involve dropping the rear of the box etc in order to reach it but I assure you it isn't necessary ..then you can pull the loom into the engine bay to make it easy to inspect and probably repair .. the loom is of poor material and unless you decide on a new loom in Raychem < which doesn't wear out as quickly >instead of Arnitel which you have .. then any reasonable quality wire will get you by .. repair as necessary and replace the loom into it's clips or use tie wraps < better > ..and the reconnect the switch at the gearbox < tightly> .. of course the loom damage could be in many places but this is the most likely cure having read your report on the fault, the changing fault codes, including the fact that sometimes it was ok, the o/d light , the now missing neutral starting etc . all this would take a mechanic approx an hour and a half maybe ..and would be the cheapest way of proceeding .. hope all this helps and keep us informed please .... regards .....STN |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by Eric_R on Nov 13th, 2004, 10:35pm Yep, sorry. LL is talking about the Cossie - I missed that - she is actually referring to 'black covering' and states that the wires inside are not damaged, just need rewrapping. LL, early Scorpios did not have the spiral plastic sleeving on the looms, just the black tape. If the black tape is missing, why? Has someone removed the covering to check the wires at any stage? If you're sure the thin wires are in good condition re-wrap them, either in insulating tape, or in the type of tape that sticks to itself - its called self-amalgamating tape. If the loom is damaged you would notice some symptoms:- Autobox fails to change properly - thumping into gear - missing gears - OD light flashes Engine misfires - hesitates - starts or runs badly - poor performance Fans run on with ignition off etc. Of course, any of these faults would show a DTC - perhaps another owner can read the OBD system for you. If the engine and gearbox are running smoothly without any driving concerns I wouldn't break into any existing protective wrap to check the wires - I would simply re-wrap the missing bits. Opening the loom up could well do more harm than good. |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by SaveTheNight on Nov 14th, 2004, 8:44am this post has got a tiny bit fragmented guys ..as there are a few separate ones running ... this is lovely_lady's problem ...... Quote:
just clarifying before lovely rips the car to bits !! .... STN |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by Eric_R on Nov 14th, 2004, 7:14pm LL and STN, Yes, this is as I mentioned above. I wrote this up on http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faults_wiring.htm It looks like the Arnitel wiring loom has failed between the PCM and the autobox. The flashing O/D light and the replaced VSS producing a different DTC and the autobox missing gears and juddering are all classic symptoms of this. There is no easy fix. The control loom around the engine and down the back of the cylinder heads along the top of the gearbox have to be stripped out, each thin-wall wire checked and if necessary replaced. Some owners have done this for themselves, but it is quite a bit of work. You might look at the usual places where the Loom has failed first - it's on the page. If you want to investigate further, I've put the details of the connections on http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/eecvlooms.htm so that you can test the looms and find the faulty connections: in your case http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/24vlooms.htm You might try asked http://www.fordpartsuk.com/ for a quote on a new Loom - they should be a lot cheaper than the full price, but even so the engine and gearbox would have to be lowered in order to get access to the Loom at the back. It would depend if you're prepared to bear the cost of this or if you know someone who could do the work for you. If the car is a recent purchase from a Dealer, take it back. If not if you can't undertake this work then you might have to regard the car as a write-off. You could consider dismantling the car and offering the parts on the Forum to recover your money. What a shame :'( |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by colinw on Nov 14th, 2004, 7:55pm LL where abouts in the country are you colin |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by Lovely_lady on Nov 14th, 2004, 9:38pm Hi Colin, I live in Telford Shropshire I have had the car for about a year and a half now.It was first reg on the 4/12/95.However I am sure that the loom in my car is not covered by tape it is in a spiral covered caseing.All your help and advice from everyone on the forum is great :D |
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Title: Re: Loom repair Post by Eric_R on Nov 14th, 2004, 10:09pm LL, I'm sorry it's not better news. :( The spirap plastic cover was used from about December 95, so that would be right. If you can, check the loom where it passes across from the engine to the drivers side of the engine bay to the two large square connectors under the ABS pump, C110 and C112. Some looms have chafed there and caused a failure. Other looms have failed above the radiator - there's a small loom leading to the MAF - check that the thin-wall insulation hasn't failed there. On other occasions the loom has failed between the V of the cylinder heads - but the inlet system has to come off to get to them and care is needed when that is reassembled. The problem is that the control looms can have failed anywhere - under the MAF, behind the front bumper etc. It was not a matter of damp or of damage - the thin Arnitel insulation on the control wires fails without any explanation and even Ford could not find the reason. Do you have a local garage that could undertake this work? If so then I would recommend buying a new loom and having it installed, otherwise the cost of refurbishing the existing loom would be prohibitive when you're paying by the hour. Installing a new loom - or even a second-hand one from a Scorpio built after June 1996 (Raychem44 instead of Arnitel wiring) - would then be a matter of lowering the engine/gearbox complete with front suspension until the loom is accessable and simply exchanging one for the other, then raising the engine/gearbox again and bolting it up. Unless you have a well-equipped workshop at home this would be best done on by a garage, but not necessarily by a main dealer. The workshop manuals for the Engine/Gearbox are on the site :) But don't let a garage replace any other parts, like they did with the VSS. Until the loom is replaced OBD diagnostics cannot be relied on. Good luck |
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