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        General >> Problems >> Door Locks
        
(Message started by: bertie on Dec 8^th, 2004, 8:42pm)

Title: Door Locks
Post by bertie on Dec 8^th, 2004, 8:42pm

Has anyone had this problem?

I pressed the remote to unlock the scorp and the door lock made a clicking news and did not unlock. After that, it would not respond to the remote, but unlocked/locked on the key. What's more, the car would not reprogram the remote ie turning the ign on/off a couple of times...no chime..nothing. Car started and ran as normal.

That was 3 days ago. This morning, the key will not unlock the doors...solid. No response from the locks on both sides.....in fact, I snapped the key trying!! I can lock the door, ie turns that way but will not turn to unlock. I've got all 3 keys and none work the doors.

I can open the boot!!! but not the doors.

Any ideas???

When this happened on my estate in Sept, I ended up buying a new lock set and got it reprogrammed at Ford for £130 all in.......the symptoms were the same only the locks siezed up 1st then the remote finally gave in...I was locked out at the Airport.......brick + window and I was in!!!

with the saloon, if the worse comes to the worse, I will force the passenger lock with the screwdriver and get in that way

many thanks

simon

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by nick on Dec 8^th, 2004, 10:48pm

ARE YOU SURE YOU HAVE NOT CHANGED KEYRINGS AGAIN< WE HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE HAVENT WE>

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT KEYS FIRST

Not that im laughing at the moment
:-X :-X :-X

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by nite_worler on Dec 9^th, 2004, 2:04am

I have this problem on my saloon at the moment.

The only way I can get in is by climbing through the boot to undo a rear door, then reach to drivers door to pop the central locking to get in.

Haven't spent time investigating yet though.

Suggestions from anybody would be appreciated

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by johnv on Dec 12^th, 2004, 5:11pm

When I obtained my 1st Scorpio Ultimate Estate 1996 2000cc the drivers door would not unlock with the key but would lock. The same with the rear door. So I was quite happy to unlock the car by going to the passenger door to unlock. The remote was not working of course.
Then after a year the passenger lock went the same so I called out the AA and they got in the car within three minutes without any damage whatsoever. Out came a little plastic wedge to wedge the look at the top about half a inch. Then down they slid a flat rod with a hook on the end through the gap and hooked it around the door catch and I was in.
So I had all the three locks re-placed and programes.
Before that the igition lock had gone the same and that had to be replaced.
The locks seem to go at about 50,000 miles onwards. starting with the igiition and drivers door then the rear door. I suppose because they have the most use. So how much did the cars cost new? I can't believe how crappy the parts on these cars are.
But I still wondering why should the locks lock but not un-lock. with the key.

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by nite_worler on Dec 12^th, 2004, 6:14pm

My ignition is getting a bit temporamental aswell.

Maybe I'll be replacing both doors and the ignition. (may aswell do the boot too)

Any body get any tips??

I'm only newly a scorpio owner, been in cavaliers for ages.

Thanks all.

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by nite_worler on Dec 12^th, 2004, 6:18pm

And the remote doesn't work either :(

Swapped the batteries but that hasn't sorted it.

Anything I can check or is it just worth getting it straight into somebody to look at?

Any feedback would be good.

Thanks

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by mr._floppy on Dec 12^th, 2004, 6:36pm

I imagine that the interior workings of Scorpio locks and doors are the same as most car doors i.e. full of push rods and levers and lock mechanisms which are prone to rust, and seizing up due to lack of lubrication and water leakage. Makes sense , when door trims have been removed , to get in about them with the oil can to prevent trouble in the future.

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by johnv on Dec 12^th, 2004, 8:25pm

yes but the problem seems to be the door locks themselves as apart from linkages. I mean there is no linkages on ignition or water that can get into being inside car. It seems to be the tumberlers inside that all lock up solid.

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by wumpster on Dec 12^th, 2004, 9:34pm

wd40 in the lock its self has allways worked for me i have put it in every lock on all my cars 3 times a year and never had any lock probs scorp included ;D

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by bertie on Dec 12^th, 2004, 10:45pm

Update...............

many thanks for the replies...some good, some bad....Nick being on the drink again and being his typical self....no use what so ever..a chocolate fireguard comes to mind

Johnv, the AA had success with the wedge trick because you must not have double locked the car...if you had, then you can not open the doors from the inside. Hence my problem.

I got around this problem by pilot drilling the passenger door lock with a 6mm drill bit all the way through, finishing with a 12mm bit. When the last drill bit went through, the door lock popped, and opened the car. Success.

Done to Henry fords and 1 complete lock set bought, £68, fitted and hey presto, sorted. I've got to drop the car in next week to reprogram so I will fit the ignition in the car park, they do it while you wait. Only takes 5 minutes.

The parts manager says the scorpio locks are prone to seizing, giving the symptoms of stiff to unlock then jamming. As previously stated, drivers door 1st then working around car. It is the tumblers inside the locks and there is a rebuild kit available for about £30 a side.

happy Xmas chaps

Simon

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by mr._floppy on Dec 12^th, 2004, 11:18pm

I remember getting a Audi 80, and it was my first experience of central locking on a car, I was investigating an unrelated electrical problem and was checking every fuse and relay in the engine compartment , as I took one fuse out I heard a click but thought nothing of it , replaced the fuse and closed the bonnet. I now realised that I had activated the central locking , and I now realised that all the keys for the car were in the ignition, I now realised I was locked out , I now realised I was a stupid ****. The AA were called , and in a Houdini like feat of dexterity with a welding rod through the open sunroof , he managed to hook the keys out of the ignition .

Moral of the story - always place a spare key under a bumper or wheel arch in case of emergency.

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by David_South_West on Dec 13^th, 2004, 11:24am

I Locked my keys in the boot and car was double locked.Sun roof was open a little. I found out if you get a long piece of wire pull the drivers inside door handle and lift up outside at the same time it opens.
Dont forget any Ford key will lock your car only the correct one will open it.

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by Dave on Dec 13^th, 2004, 1:49pm

Eek, this is an eerily long thread. I thought I was alone when I bought my Scorp but obviously I am not. My situation:

I bought the car with only one black key, and a strange alarm fob. The single key does not unlock any doors or boot, there is no resistance. It does lock them. The strange alarm fob unlocks and locks the car very efficiently, but it also plays havoc with the original ford alarm. I disconnected the ford alarm horn (behind battery). Then I found the original scorpio fob in the glovebox, reprogrammed it and it works perfectly.

The situation is now; I have to use the new alarm fob to lock and unlock, and I only have the one key for the ignition. The new alarm is a real b****r, it immobilizes the engine if I don't start it within ten seconds of unlocking. So very soon i'm going to get the new alarm uninstalled, and then go to ford and get 1) all new locks 2) Two new black keys and a red key and 3) Reprogrammed the whole lot.

I had a quote of £100+VAT for a black and a red key and reprogramming, but from what this thread says, I need the new lockset as well.. so I hope they won't charge any more than £200!

I'll let you all know how it goes, what Ford say about their shoddy locks (let's be honest, they are terribly poor to let so many of us down like this), and how much the whole job costs!

Regards, D

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by Dave on Dec 13^th, 2004, 3:36pm

Update:
I went down to Ford. They told me £57.99 for a full lockset and keys (doors, boot and ignition barrels; two black keys and a red one). And £450 for them to fit and programme them all.

They said they didn't want to take the aftermarket alarm off. So:

I have ordered the full lockset (£68.13 including VAT, which I think is an absolute bargain), and am going to get the aftermarket alarm taken off, then try and do just the door locks myself. Well, with brother and dad, they know a lot more about it all than me. This site shows step by step how to do it so we've got a headstart.

The reason Ford charge so much is down to the door locks, because you have to remove the armour plating/silicone membraine thing. £450 is a joke but £68 is an amazing bargain. If anyone has changed their locks then i'd love to hear about it as i'm sure i'll struggle : (. But needs must!

Regards.

D

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by johnv on Dec 13^th, 2004, 3:59pm

All this double locking is doing my head in. How do you double lock a door? I mean you put in the key and turn it and the door is locked, so how do you lock it twice.
When I said that my 1996 Scorpio all the locks had gone I forgot to say the car had done 130,000 miles but wait. My lastest car a cosworth as done only 60,000 miles and thats the same, the drivers door and rear tailgate will not unlock only the passengerr door is OK. but at least the fob is working on this car.
When I had my house double glazed some years ago the lock barrel went solid on that and they drilled out the lock barrel ok.
I tried WD spaying that in and even dripping the key into wd and pushing it in and out and trying to move it, no sucess.

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by Snoopy on Dec 13^th, 2004, 4:54pm

To double lock the car with the key you turn the key to lock back to centre and within 3secs turn to lock again that DOUBLE locks the car and puts the dead locks on

see here http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/handbook032.gif

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by mr._floppy on Dec 13^th, 2004, 5:00pm

Double locking is to prevent your local friendly baseball cap wearing car thief smashing your side window and opening all the car doors from the inside and letting all his mates in. Definately NOT to be used to stop the kids in the back seat from opening the doors, as in a accident situation door access for the emergency services would be a problem.

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by Snoopy on Dec 13^th, 2004, 5:11pm

You cannot double lock the car with the ignition key in place as far as I am aware if so it should disarm in the event of a crash and to prevent children from opening doors then there are child locks on the rear doors ....

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by bertie on Dec 13^th, 2004, 6:05pm

Dave

changing the door locks is a doddle. I've just finished doing it. By torch light in the dark!

Once you have removed the door trim, look through the inner membrane and peel it back to reveal the door locks. Unscrew the 2 posies holding the silver lock protector. Then unscrew the 3, 8mm nuts holding the door handle. Remove the door handle rod from the clip and remove from the door. This enables you to remove the armoured plate easily. Infront of you is the door lock. Unhook the bracket holding the lock, unclip the rod and undo the alarm module that encircles it. fit new'un......it's that easy.

Ford charge £70 to reprogram the keys.

You will have to fit the ignition lock in the car park before it gets reprogrammed......usually they will bring the laptop to the car and it takes literally 10 minutes.

simon

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by Dave on Dec 13^th, 2004, 6:18pm

Brilliant! Thanks Simon you've made me feel better. Phew. Got a real plan now. I think Ford are really helpful and if you play your cards right, you can get things done cheaply. Glad so many have carried this fix out, but i'm sure it's not a 'doddle' as you say. Well, maybe your doddle is different from my doddle.... Anyway, i'll get started on it in about five days!

Cheers,

Dave.

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by solarpanel on Dec 13^th, 2004, 11:24pm

hi dave,yes changing locks is a doddle after you have done one,plus i got my new keys programed for ......................£25.00 at a ford dealership..............result!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
solarpanel

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by Mike_Holmes on Dec 24^th, 2004, 6:20pm

Greetings,
In answer to:
"All this double locking is doing my head in. How do you double lock a door? I mean you put in the key and turn it and the door is locked, so how do you lock it twice. "

There is a second motor that turns to disable the interior door handle. I've just found this out by looking at the circuit (cdoorloc.pdf). This is worked by the CCM so can only be operated by the key or the remote. Two microswitches worked by the key barrel tell the CCM which way it's going, so it's the CCM that decides to double-lock if you've turned unlock/lock within 3 seconds.

I'm looking at this because my front passenger lock motor has just stopped working. This is, er, interesting, because, since the lock doesn't move, the actuator switch stays in the same position. That is, if all doors are locked, including the non-working one, then when I unlock, the 3 working doors unlock but then, because the left front is still in the locked position, they all lock again! The only way into the car was to unlock the drivers door then snatch it open quick before it relocks itself. Also vice versa if the left front is unlocked, you can't then lock the car, well you can, but it promptly unlocks again. So locking it could only be done at the passenger door.

It's much more amusing to unlock the drivers side, open it quick and leave it open. The lock motors then go bananas as the system continually tries to lock a door that won't, because it's open!

As a temporary measure I've unplugged the offending motor module to restore normal behaviour for the other 3 doors. However it now means locking the passenger door 'the old fashioned way', by hand!

This is in addition to something else that has existed for a long time, something really odd with the passenger side key, in that there is no resistance at all in the unlock direction and so of course it does nothing. In fact looking at the back of it from the inside it can be seen not to turn with the key at all in that direction. Lock, yes. Suspect something may have snapped off, and in any case the whole key mechanism seems quite sloppy and wobbles about. Anyway I'm waiting for warmer weather before investigating further - unless something else happens!

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by Dave on Jan 4^th, 2005, 10:02am

Hi All,

just an update - have now replaced all locks! Except ignition and we have the car booked in to Ford on friday for the key to be programmed in. Quoted £75 though.

Anyway, locks were fairly straight forward as people have said, its just a matter of trying not to stab yourself with a screwdriver (4 times) and careful when undoing the top screws from the armour plate as access is not amazing and they can round off. Oh, and careful with the circlips - they gave me the most trouble out of the whole thing!

By the way, both driver and passenger locks used to lock the car fine but when turning to unlock there was no resistance at all and no unlocking action either. I did not notice any visible problem with the locks or linkages when removed the problem must have been to do with the lock internals.

Nite_worler - the process isn't difficult just allow yourself plenty of time (took me about an hour and a half to do the first side but I spent a fair while skewering myself) and do it on a dry day! I also sat on a little camping stool when doing the doors as the height is perfect and it was more comfortable than kneeling on tarmac.
The boot was simple - just look carefully at the new lock and put that together and take it apart once or twice to familiarise yourself with the workings so it will be easier on the car. And don't forget to take the big clip off that actually holds the boot lock in place, it just slides on/off and looks like a kind of portcullis.

Take instructions with you and put 'em on the seat. And try not to let them blow away ::)

Igntion next......

Cheers

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by Dave on Jan 7^th, 2005, 1:15pm

Dum dum!

Done. Ignition barrel and PATS sorted.

New problem: Ford dealers. ****s

9:00
We arrive and ask them to take note.
"Someone will be out with you shortly."

9:20
"Is he coming?"
"How should I know?"
"?"

10:00
"Seriously now, we have things to do. We're booked in for nine. What are you doing?"
She goes away and very quickly a man comes out and gets a bit confused, and then takes the car to the service bays. Yes. Five minute job, mate. Yep.

10:30
I go for a peek into the bay. Car is standing there doing nothing.

10:45
"What the fupp are you doing?"
"Fifteen minutes more!"

And eventually. Two hours and twenty minutes from whence we arrived, we left, having paid £76 and waited TWO HOURS! For someone to press enter on a keyboard!

Ford get the job done, just very slowly. Painfully slowly. But they get it done. They get the parts you need. They do. They're not as bad as Volkswagen. I drove into VW in Manchester in the (and I stress this,) PRISTINE mark two Polo Coupe S (very rare), a salesman flagged me down, leant on my car, laughed and said "Here for parts?" ****.

As it happens I was, but for all he knew he could have lost a nice sale! Main dealers. ****s.

D***

Title: Re: Door Locks
Post by johnv on Jan 7^th, 2005, 7:15pm

so it took 2 hours and 20 mintues for Dave to get the job done at your Ford Main Dealer.
God, you are just so lucky. you relly are.
I book my cars into my Main FORD Dealer five weeks in advance. when they have no other cars booked in.
So on the date, I take the car in at 06.30 am and put the keys into the drop off key letterbox.
So I phone at tea time, is my car ready. Back comes the reply, we not quite finished it yet.
So knowing they are lying, I say have you started it yet, after a silents, back comes the reply, not yet we been very busy.
It took then three days to put a starter motor on a Ford Transit MK 2 van. But they did not do it then, I took my van away and did it myself in 15 minutes. Its just so simply three bolts and its done standing up and leaning over.
Time after time they done the same, bearing in mind that I got four cars so four MOT four lots of servicing and four lots of repairs.
So over and over again they kept dumped me in favour of others.
I think this, I think that they respond to those that shout the loundest.
Still having had success in legal action against then for charging for work they had not done I having a go at them for breach of contract.
I hope someones not going to start all that about I am wrong and I won't get anywhere.
Just wait and see, nothing is certain or course but at least a fine of £4000 plus £1700 costs under my belt don't half give me a nice feeling.
But, I still don't know why they should ban me from any further dealing with such a nice person as me?