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        General >> Problems >> Smoothly does it???
        
(Message started by: OddJob on Dec 14^th, 2004, 8:29pm)

Title: Smoothly does it???
Post by OddJob on Dec 14^th, 2004, 8:29pm

Please can any one advise me ???
I have recently just entered the Scorpio arena with my newest arrival of a Cossy (75K) and as I'm settling in I am starting now to discover things. I feel that the gear change that everyone praises as so smooth to me is not that great, certainly compaired to the Granada :-/
I find that there is a slight harshness to the changes particulary between 2nd and 3rd when the revs drop by 500rpm before KICKING into gear. I cleaned the airflow meter as per the instructions laid out on the Scorpio site but there was no apparent improvement other than an increase in fuel economy :D I don't suffer from the cattle grid effect and have no problems engaging any gears and where as the changes are not overally dramatic it still lacks that smoothness one expected :'(
Has any one else suffered like this and found a cure or am I just paranoid and fussy and this is normal ;)
Thanks alot !!!!!!!!
OddJob

Title: Re: Smoothly does it???
Post by phuturephantasy on Dec 14^th, 2004, 9:49pm

Hmmm - either you have a somewhat unScorpiolike harsh gearbox in your Scorpio or you had a particularly unGranadalike Super Duper Smooth gearbox in your old car.

In the Granadas I've been in they were all much more noticeable than my Scorpio when changing gear.

Title: Re: Smoothly does it???
Post by Dave on Dec 14^th, 2004, 10:29pm

First thing to do might be to check the colour of the gearbox oil... it says what it should be on this site. I think, if it's green it's great, if it's dirty green/brown it's ok, gearbox ok but oil dirty, and if it's dark dark brown/black then your gearbox is on its way out. Or it's left already.

I don't really know much either though... guys? Solanoids?

D

Title: Re: Smoothly does it???
Post by OddJob on Dec 14^th, 2004, 10:31pm

Hi phuturephantasy & thanks for the reply
Perhaps then there is a fault, for despite how the Granada's gear change was the Scorpio's is definately harsher?
I've just been outside to check the wiring harness under the bonnet and that appears to be tidy and ok!
Gone I assume have the days of the side mounted diaphragm and vacuum pipe.

Title: Re: Smoothly does it???
Post by OddJob on Dec 14^th, 2004, 10:41pm

Hi dave
GREEN ??? :o
Surely the box uses Dextron 2/3 fluid which is RED ???
Anyhow, checked the fluid already and it is fine.
Thanks for the reply
Oddjob

Title: Re: Smoothly does it???
Post by Mmonster on Dec 14^th, 2004, 11:44pm

Hi OddJob,

After moved from 3 different Granadas (models -78, -85, -91), all driven well over 250 000miles each, it take me some time while to get used to live with this electric box. (i have 24V too)

In Granada you have to lift the gas a bit to have nice and smooth gear change.
With this fancy electric controlled box that caused exactly what you mentioned. Revs drop, and gear snaps on after a moment.

But, that was totaly my own fault. Maybe you foot is not working like mine. (without brain ;) ) So there is another advice:
-Disconnect battery. (make sure you have a radio code)
- Go and have a cup of coffee. (or tea, like you english like to drink...<- I learn that in the shcool)
-After 30min connect you battery again.
-Start you engine and leave it to idle about 5 min with box on D (remember handbrake!!) and aircondition on (if fitted).
-Go to min 15 miles drive, with different speeds.
You engine managment system has now learned the settings of you vehicle. I think it will continue learning after that too, but not make any critical changes.

Anybody have any experience?

Mmonster

Title: Re: Smoothly does it???
Post by Paul B on Dec 15^th, 2004, 7:00am

Just want to confirm here that the gearbox fluid should be red. Going a little bit brown is ok I think, but if its really dark or even black, then there's a problem and it will need changing.

If it is green, then you've probably got anti-freeze or something in there instead. That won't be helping much ;D

Title: Re: Smoothly does it???
Post by john.n on Dec 15^th, 2004, 7:48am

Might be nothing to do with it,but i would still clean the MAF sensor. john.n ;)

Title: Re: Smoothly does it???
Post by Snoopy on Dec 15^th, 2004, 7:54am

The correct Drive cycle is here http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/drivecycle.htm for the eec to 'learn' ... NEVER and I say NEVER leave the car running and in d without being in it and the handbrake and foot brake applied.....

The proper method for checking the gear box is to do it when its is HOT after a good run and with the engine running.. put the gearbox through the gears several times.. then park and then check the oil... oil is added through the dip stick and as others have said clean the MAF with residue free solvent....

Title: Re: Smoothly does it???
Post by Dave on Dec 15^th, 2004, 9:09am

Ahh red/green same difference : ) I said I wasn't sure.

Let us know what happens!

D

Title: Re: Smoothly does it???
Post by Vulcan on Dec 15^th, 2004, 12:33pm

on 12/15/04 at 09:09:39, Dave wrote:

Ahh red/green same difference : ) I said I wasn't sure.

D

:o wow you must be a fun guy at traffic lights ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Smoothly does it???
Post by mr._floppy on Dec 15^th, 2004, 5:18pm

Surely there is not a auto gearbox invented that is sooooooo smooth that is impossible to tell when it is changing.

I expect ,and get, a slight almost , imperceptable engine rise and fall when changes are taking place , in fact, I would prefer a dashboard indication that tells me what ratio I am in .

Title: Re: Smoothly does it???
Post by Eric_R on Dec 15^th, 2004, 6:56pm

Oddjob,
The Scorpio should definitely have a smoother change than the Granadas you had. The reason is that the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) controls both the gearbox solenoids (and thus the timing of the change) as well as the engine timing. At the moment of the change the PCM retards the timing slightly to reduce power on the engine. This 'slurs' the change noticeably and prevents the transmission 'jerk' you mention.

I agree with Mmonster - having driven 4 previous Granadas the gearbox on my cossie is definitely smoother and more refined.

There are a few things that may account for the engine not 'slurring' the change:
1. Faulty MAF
2. Intermittent air leak in inlet manifold
3. Faulty HO2S invoking Open Loop fuelling
4. Faulty IAT or ECT sensors making fuelling too rich
- and some other really obscure ones. :o

I recommend you meet with an owner equipped with an OBD lead. He could check for DTCs in case there is a problem with an engine sensor. He could also check your Long Term Fuel Trims (LTFT) and the pre-cat HO2S sensors and see if there's a problem with those. If you're anywhere near J4 on the M25 you could come to me and I'd look it over for you. :)

HTH

Title: Re: Smoothly does it???
Post by OddJob on Dec 15^th, 2004, 7:25pm

;D I've said before and I'll say it again you can't beat the Granada & Scorpio and all those wounderful people who look after them! Thanks everyone for your support ;D Meanwhile I will undertake all of what you have said as soon as and hopefully and with some luck there may be a result.

Thanks Eric but unfortunately I'm in Lancashire, anyway I have now managed to obtain an OBD lead with a little box of tricks and some software (Digimoto v3.7), though all I need now is something to plug it all into to see the the results and then who knows what mysteries we will uncover. ??? :-/
Thought ??? will the scan be able to detect an air leak at the inlet manifold. I ask as I have had the rocker gaskets and inlet manifold gaskets renewed very recently. Unfortunately this was only a week after purchasing the vehicle and I can't now remember how the car drove before ???

Shall post the results good or bad later, THANKS AGAIN ;)

Title: Re: Smoothly does it???
Post by Snoopy on Dec 16^th, 2004, 7:57am

Hi there I am sure the Lancashire crowd would be only too willing to help with the OBD software and lead if you ask.. I know there are several people in Lacashire with the equipment....so why not ask on a new thread... for help in lancashire.....

Title: Re: Smoothly does it???
Post by OddJob on Jan 3^rd, 2005, 10:56pm

SMALL UPDATE :)

Still working on the problem, trouble finding time between work and weather, but having today cleaned the IAC and oiled lightly the throttle springs have discovered apart from that Digimoto software is not compatable with car that the problem has possibly reduced ever so slightly :D not cured but ever so slightly better :)
Possible slight sticking of springs hey ??? lets hope not talked too soon