Ford Scorpio Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> Problems >> Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
        
(Message started by: geofcoulson on Dec 14^th, 2004, 11:59pm)

Title: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by geofcoulson on Dec 14^th, 2004, 11:59pm

I have a 97 2.9 cossy Ultima(103000 miles) with the standard auto gearbox. The problem is , when left standing overnight......I engage Drive and it may pull away ok, but at the next junction (still in drive) it does not engage and the revs climb.....after dipping the revs a few times it engages and takes off.
My garage thinks it may be a gearbox problem, which could prove costly.....I personally think that a change/flush of gearbox oil could sort it. Has anyone experienced similar problems?
Dont want to change it....its a great motor with all the kit.
Kind regards
Geoff Coulson

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by Steve_S on Dec 15^th, 2004, 3:10am

Yes, but not on the scorp. Had a very similar problem with a cortina auto and the problem was down to low autobox oil level. Check the level is spot on.

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by waders on Dec 15^th, 2004, 2:04pm

Hi,

I think Steve may be right, but why? If the oil is low you probably have a leak!! Topping it up (if its low) will solve your problem until enough leaks out again! Check for drips after it's parked for a while.

8) ;D 8) ;D 8)

Waders

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by geofcoulson on Dec 15^th, 2004, 9:41pm

Thanks for your ideas. The gearbox oil level is fine although I personally think its at bit thick and dark....so maybe its the original oil and its in need of a change. Would that give those symptoms....just when cold...after a mile its ok....no slippage.
Thanks
Geoff Coulson

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by desperate on Dec 15^th, 2004, 10:06pm

How did you test the oil level Geof ?? was it fine as in SPOT ON ?

I have the same symptoms when cold and pulling off the drive. (i also have an intermittant thump into 1st from 2nd, and intermittant delayed kick down)

I'm told (by garage) to have a fully warm engine, put the gear-lever into R, 1, 2, D etc (just taking up the drive each time) then back into P then test it. Mine showed a little low which will be addressed tomorrow.

No expert personally just passing on what i've learnt over the last couple of days.

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by waders on Dec 15^th, 2004, 10:13pm

Bang on Dan,

Common method, drive to reverse three times on warm engine.

Check for any "burnt" smell from the oil to.

8) ;D 8) ;D 8)

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by geofcoulson on Dec 16^th, 2004, 1:08pm

Dear All
Firstly...never realised that the box had to be warmed up before checking oil....my mechanic does all this for me!
Secondly...did as you seggested.....backward and forward a few times....with reverse not engaging until 4 or 5 seconds with reving...ran it for a few more minutes...popped the bonnet and checked the oil.....smeared up to the top mark on the stick...so the level is ok....but the colour is a chocolate brown...a little runny but not as thick as engine oil...does this narrow down the causes?....I suppose the cheapest option is to have the oil changed and see if it persists!!!!.
Many thanks
Geoff Coulson

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by waders on Dec 16^th, 2004, 1:21pm

Hi Geoff,
Try changing the gear oil, a very cheep fix if it works but the sluggish reverse selection is generally a sign of overall wear :(
Good luck

8) ;D 8) ;D 8)

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by Mmonster on Dec 16^th, 2004, 2:01pm

Hi geofcoulson

Note that when you measure the autobox oil you should have engine running idle speed.

If the level is in low or under it, you should not drive at all, too mutch air will enter the oil circulation causing rapid wear.
If the oil is any other color than red, you should change it.

Regards,
Mmonster

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by geofcoulson on Dec 16^th, 2004, 2:40pm

Thanks
Mmonster...it certains is not red....more a chocolate colour....time to change oil I think
Geoff Coulson

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by geofcoulson on Dec 21^st, 2004, 12:02am

UPDATE
had the oil and filter change today.....the oil was thick and crappy.
Mechanic said when I collected it....."it doesn't seem any better".
I can only hope that the existing oil that was trapped in the torque converter, has not yet "thinned down" with the new oil!!!
Drove it home and at one junction it was 5 or 6 seconds before the drive engaged ...hhhhmmmm....I will await judgement for a couple of days until the new oil will have thinned down the remains of the old...fingers crossed!!!....otherwise....goodbye cossy...not worth the replacement cost of a recon gearbox at £8/900
Geoff Coulson

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by Mmonster on Dec 21^st, 2004, 7:48pm

Hi,

Sad to hear... :-/ I will keep my fingers crossed.
(even it´s really hard to type a keyboard like that... :) )

Regards,
Mmonster

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by desperate on Dec 21^st, 2004, 10:08pm

You have exactly the same issue as me Geoff. That d**n d**n D.

From what i understand of it the forward clutch is gone. the oil isnt getting tyhe pressure there, it could be seals or anything. the advice i've got from all the garages is just to fit a recon unit.

PM'd you on some other matter.

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by filthy13 on Dec 25^th, 2004, 7:17pm

I am a mechanic of many years,
If the oil is brown it is contaminated with particles of clutch plates, there is a fiter in the sump which will be blocked, change it and box may work normaly, but when oil is contaminated like this it means box does not have long to live, sorry for bad news.

phil

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by Eric_R on Dec 25^th, 2004, 11:22pm

Yep, I agree with Filthy - sorry, Phil.

I wouldn't have changed the filter and fluid if the autobox had difficulty engaging a gear. From your symptoms it sounds like at least one solenoid is sticking, and if the fluid is chocolate brown IME it means that failure is imminent. Changing the fluid and filter would not normally help in this case because the damage is too severe.

Take the car to a reputable autobox specialist and have them look at it. Get them to check for Diagnostic Trouble Codes and if necessary get a second opinion - but IMHO you're going to have to bite the bullet and get a recon box. This is about GBP750 in London and GBP5-600 in the regions.

Sorry it's bad news. :'(

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by geofcoulson on Dec 30^th, 2004, 12:21pm

Thanks all for your comments.
The problem IS getting worse....it only slipped for the first mile of warm up...now it does it after 3 miles.....and I'm sure there is a slight smell from the car when warm...is this like a clutch burning smell??
I have sourced a dismantled box for £200 delivered with a 90 day warranty and awaiting the return of my engineer (from xmas break) to tell me how long it will take to fit. If it is going to cost more than £500, I may as well take it to a reputable gearbox place and get a recon unit fitted altho this will be nearer £650 as has been stated previously.
Thanks for all your comments.
Geoff Coulson

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by geofcoulson on Jan 3^rd, 2005, 5:38pm

JUST HAD A THOUGHT!!!!
Having looked at this site in more detail....what an excellent resource.....could my problem have anything to do with the MAF sensor?????
It would be a hell of a lot cheaper than a replacement box!!!
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Geoff

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by Mmonster on Jan 3^rd, 2005, 5:49pm

Hi geofcoulson,

I am afraid that MAF cant cause box behavior like that.
:-/
Also brown color of oil indicates clutch wear.
Some years ago i changed these pads to my MKII Granada after 220000miles, but this new electronic box should leave for specialist.

Mmonster

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by geofcoulson on Jan 3^rd, 2005, 5:53pm

Mmonster
THANKS.....I guess I was just hoping for a cheaper cure:(
Geoff

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by waders on Jan 3^rd, 2005, 5:56pm

Hi Geof,

The smell of burnt clutch is not a good sign :( as this is probably exactly your problem (there are two clutches in your 'box).

:( :o :( :o :(

Title: Re: Auto gearbox on Cossy Ultima
Post by COSWORTH_PARTS on Jan 3^rd, 2005, 6:17pm

i brand new box from ford is 700 quid now thats cheaper then a recon