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        General >> Problems >> 2.9 cos chain  rattle ?????
        
(Message started by: gaz01gaz on Dec 19^th, 2004, 2:36pm)

Title: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by gaz01gaz on Dec 19^th, 2004, 2:36pm

can anyone advise please,my 97 cossy(110k) has a good rattle at me for a second or two when started cold,after this it sounds and goes lovely ;) i have read about this and understand it to be the chain tensioner that is worn,is this correct???also would replacing oil with castrol magnatec have any influence on this tensioner problem,,any views most welcome,,,,, :-/ :-/ :-/

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by desperate on Dec 19^th, 2004, 2:41pm

I havre exactly the same symptoms with my 95 24v. Sounds blooming awful on a cold start up for 3 or 4 seconds as well.

I'm not sure if the tensioner is automatic CCT or hydrolic - either way the oil i don't think will make any difference at all.

I have the same questions basically But what i intend to do is have the tensioner looked at/replaced and seeking advice on the life time of the chain also. Thr latter i understand to be a major operation.

dan

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by colinw on Dec 19^th, 2004, 2:56pm

same reply to both of you get the tensioners changed ASAP ,a tensioner that breaks up can cause chain to jump ,with catastrophic (think ive spelt it right) results i know to my cost ,over £3k to put right ,

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by Badboytunes on Dec 19^th, 2004, 4:02pm

I think different oil does make a difference. It is on the site sumwhere.......... I had the same problem on my 24v but have a way to stop it from rattling. ( temp measure). When u crank the car over plant your right foot into the carpet and the ecu thinks the engine is flooded and stops the engine from starting. I used to do it for bout 6 secs ( or till the light went out). Then start as normal and hey presto no rattle. I did thid for 8k in mine b4 i sold her.

HTH
Cheers Nick

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by desperate on Dec 19^th, 2004, 4:06pm

Either way i think it's best for me and gaz to fololow Colins advice and get them tensioners replaced quick smart like !!

Dosn't sound like a massive job (2 hrs labour) so this is the route i'll be going.

How long does (or is supposed) the Cam Chain last ???

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by Badboytunes on Dec 19^th, 2004, 4:14pm

dunno m8 but i think the job is a few hundred quid or so. Im sure sum one will answer you or why not ask STN. He will no for sure

Cheers ;)

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by gaz01gaz on Dec 19^th, 2004, 5:09pm

phew !!!! just as i thought :'( is this noise because the tensioner is worn or just a design fault???? either way sounds like a big job ? any ideas on cost i.e parts,labour e.t.c i am in s.yorks anyone know of an experienced ultima mechanic around here????? thanks to you all for the help...gaz

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 19^th, 2004, 5:55pm

hi there

give http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/timingchain29cos.htm
and http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/timingchain29.htm a read.

hth

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by gaz01gaz on Dec 19^th, 2004, 9:42pm

unfortunately it looks as bad as it sounds :-[ :-[ to replace tensioners,however replacing the engine after it goes" bang " looks even bigger so i think i will find a good scorp mechanic,please can anyone recommend within yorkshire region,no grease monkeys please ;D,i might have to turn the radio up each cold start ???god the noise makes me cringe...gaz

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by Badboytunes on Dec 19^th, 2004, 10:48pm

if ur gonna grin and bear it for a bit do what i did in a previous reply........ The reason for the rattle is a hydraulic tensioner on the right hand bank ( i think) fails. Some kind of flaw in an otherwise excellent engine..

Cheers Nick ;)

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by gaz01gaz on Dec 20^th, 2004, 12:17am

with xmas almost upon us i look like having to ;D and bear it until 2005,i have tried what u say and it revs it a**se off straight away ??? when you say wait for the light to go out,which one? sorry to sound dim ! thanks for all the advice...gaz

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by nick on Dec 20^th, 2004, 3:25am

my 98 cos has done 130,000 and it has the same problem, it had the problem when I bought it.

however, have changed the oil every 4000 miles, use ford filters as they have a non return vlave in, and use top quality oil, synthetic, and the problem isnt as bad as it was when I bought the car.

In the last year I have done 20,000 miles no problem, that doesnt mean I wont have bother, but this is a problem that eventually al 24v suffer from.

Mine is a 98 facelift and has the redesigned tensioner but even so the problem is still here. It was originally quoted that ford and Cosworth fell out over the service schedules, with cosworth wanting 6000 intervals but ford going for 10,000.

As a rule it is only the LH tensioner that needs replacing and the tensioner is £90ish, but an easy job to change.

Hope this helps, the write up on the main site is very good and worth a look.

Nic

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by Dave Boulton on Dec 20^th, 2004, 6:52am

Gaz.

Quote:

i have tried what u say and it revs it a**se off straight away Huh

The important part of flooring the throttle before you start is that it's all the way to the floor. A mat underneath may well get in the way for instance. This is the procedure for starting a flooded engine (see handbook) - the PCM won't fire the injectors if the throttle is wide open on engine start.

The aim here is to build up oil pressure using the starter and people say this stops the rattle. So you'd be cranking it until the oil pressure light goes out.

Needless to say, if it actually does start when you're trying this then get off the throttle straight away!

HTH,
Dave

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by Badboytunes on Dec 20^th, 2004, 11:34am

I shud of said that Dave. The throttle MUST be buried to the floor and yes.... a mat will make a difference . the light in question is the oil pressure light. i when it extinguished a crank for 1-2 secs. then start as normal.

Cheers Nick

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by jimgrant on Dec 20^th, 2004, 12:23pm

another good tip is to park the car nose down if possible. I have had my chains done (cost £1600), but she still rattles most mornings. A nose down attitude seems to keep the oil in the tensioner.

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by desperate on Dec 20^th, 2004, 12:47pm

GAZ...

I've solved all our problems bud. I've taken out a 1yr warranty on my car for £290 that includes wear and tear and all components.

So my gearbox, timing chain/tensioners, diff bearings, front screen etc are all gonna be taking car of in the new year without me even breaking a sweat.

CLEVER ME !!!

8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by gaz01gaz on Dec 20^th, 2004, 12:56pm

thanks for the advice,bury the fast pedal into the carpet for a couple of seconds at first cranking and then retry with no gas pedal and "hey presto" the engine fires up with no rattle at all,brilliant ! ;) i know this problem needs addressing in the long term,however no need to turn up the volume on the radio when first starting cold now ;) still need a good techy around south yorks if anyone can help,,,,,many thanks to all who took time to give me some help,,,gaz

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by gaz01gaz on Dec 20^th, 2004, 12:59pm

great idea "desperate",please can you email me details of how i can acheive the same results,if you know what i mean ;)

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by desperate on Dec 20^th, 2004, 1:02pm

You have mail Gaz

;)

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by keith_f on Jan 26^th, 2005, 12:28pm

I had the same problem with my 24v (100,000 miles) last year first I had the tensioner changed (didn't solve the problem) then I decided to have the chains and oil pump etc changed (£1100) this stoped the rattle for approx 6000 mile but it's back again but not quite as bad so I think I will put up with it till the oil light starts coming on.
I have been using a Ford oil filter and full synthetic oil which seems to help.

Keith

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by Jim on Jan 26^th, 2005, 2:56pm

an alternative ? http://www.autoenginelube.com/ ???

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by rickyfifer on Jan 27^th, 2005, 12:50pm

i got a 95 cossie for 205 of of ebay great car except the right timing chain had snapped took out the top guide time and 6 valves too the guy got a 1500 quote for repair excluding any engine damage i spent 440 on top gasket set 6 valves and 2 ford timing chains its not a complicated job apart from setting the 4 camshafts right but more time consumming think the reason why the chain sounds so bad on start up is that if the chain tensioner is even slightly worn it takes a few seconds for the oil pressure to take up the slack aslong as the chain doesnt rattle all the time i wouldnt worry about it

Title: Re: 2.9 cos chain rattle ?????
Post by gaz01gaz on Jan 27^th, 2005, 10:31pm

thanks to all who have replied so far,seems to me that the 24 v has this common problem and even spending a small fortune to try and resolve this niggling rattle on cold start is not worth the time and effort :(,,i shall just keep priming the tensioner with the "floor the throttle"trick on cold starts,seems to be doing the trick for now,,,once again thanks to all who take the time to help,i will always help others if i can,very gratefull gaz