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        General >> Problems >> Steering wobble under breaking!
        
(Message started by: dart on Mar 6^th, 2005, 1:23am)

Title: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by dart on Mar 6^th, 2005, 1:23am

I thought that might catch your attention!
I'm about to try Brembo disc's,I'll find out on Monday if they make the drilled sports disc's for the scorps,to cool them down quickly enough to stop them warping in 6 months of fitting ! (ford or not!)
I'll let you know as soon as poss.(and the price,if they make them to fit!)
I can't be the only one with the wobbly steering wheel problem, can I?
:-/

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by Vulcan on Mar 6^th, 2005, 1:41am

Dart, I had that wobble, it was sorted by replacing the wishbones bushes... smooth a silk now under hard braking

By the way: also replaced both front discs and pads at the same time.. not too expensive.. £250 all done

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by Highlander on Mar 6^th, 2005, 4:58am

Yep I have it :) Stand on the brakes and just hold on!! :)

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by Badboytunes on Mar 6^th, 2005, 10:06am

X-drillev and grooved discs are good. howver i had then in a modified capri and they do make alot of noise under hard braking. Does the scorp really need an upgrade over the originals? MIne on my 24v were amazing......

Cheers Nick

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by mr._floppy on Mar 6^th, 2005, 10:53am

I think the reason discs are vented is to dissapate heat, never heard of them warping because of overheating in regular use .

Drilled and Grooved discs are just a marketing ploy for the gullable :D.

Like Bottled Water. ;D

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by Eric_R on Mar 6^th, 2005, 1:31pm

Dart,
I'd be a little cautious about after-market brake disks and pads. The ABS system module has the specs of the standard brake disks and pads built into its program, so that it can keep each wheel at the maximum retardation rate by varying the brake pressure applied. If you fit other types of brake disks and pads you may cause over-braking - this will cause ABS confusion and your braking distance may actually increase ... so bear that in mind.

The standard Ford disks should give no trouble. They are vented, of very good quality and well machined and they match the exact specifications of the original part. If you 'season' them properly when they are new and bear a couple of points in mind when you are driving they should last 60 or 70K miles with no problems at all - mine have.

The brake disk care points are:
1. When first fitted and or/with new pads avoid heavy braking for at least 100 miles.
2. You may consider 'conditioning' the new disks after the first 100 miles. On a road where it is safe to do so brake down from 70 to 40 gently at first and then again with gradually firmer pressure and end with the brakes off while accelerating smoothly again. This will heat up the disks and allow them to cool evenly, relieving any internal stresses built up by manufacture or fitting.
3. After any emergency braking to a standstill the brake disks will probably be almost white hot - as soon as possible take your foot off the brake and hold the car on the handbrake (or better still in P for autos). This removes the brake pads from the disks and allows the disk to cool more evenly without hot or cold spots.
4. If after emergency braking the brakes 'judder', go through the conditioning routine again (as at 2) because this may relieve the heat-stresses in the disks.

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by johnv on Mar 6^th, 2005, 4:01pm

golly Mr_Floppy don't you start me off on bottle water. In recent tests some I repeat some they had more bugs etc in it than tap water.
Some of this bottle water I would not wash my Alloys with.
Myself we have a water filter on the kitchen sink, that removes any chemicals.
On the subject of warped discs, I thinking it got to be mis use.
I mean you must have seen what I see every day. People busting a gut to get a couple of yards ahead and then having to stamp on the brakes.
all that extra petrol then all that brake linning. what a waste of money.

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by johnv on Mar 6^th, 2005, 4:21pm

When first fitted and or/with new pads avoid heavy braking for at least 100 miles
--------------------------------------------------------------
But Eric, I always avoid heavy braking for every, not just 100 miles.
Brakes are for a emergencies not for driving on.
I just wonder, you are asked and have to declare all mods or non standard fitments, when you insure you car.
Hey I just mentione that word again, don't seem to be able to get it out of my head, sorry.
So do people say, yes i changed my brake discs and pads from Ford to some others.
I feel another thread coming on but I will resist.
My cars are auto's but I hardly use the brakes, just to give the final stop and hold it still at hold ups.
The trouble is that some people think that they can drive if they scream along, but wise people will know what I mean when I say it is in fact harder to drive slow than fast.
Like if you are on a motor bike it easy to drive fast in a straight line but to drive slow around cones without touching the floor with you feet that another story.
By the way what oil do you use in you car. Still better not say in case its not what others approve off.

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by mr._floppy on Mar 6^th, 2005, 4:31pm

Don't know about emergency braking, but what separates the Men from the Boys when braking is concerned is long and twisty downhill roads.

I got lost in the Yorkshire Dales a few years ago and after climbing to the top , there was, naturalmont, a 8 mile descent to Willeheckerslike or Hepplethwaight-on-Rye (or someplace like that), by the time I was half way down smoke was reeking front the front discs and braking was almost non-existant, it was heart-in-mouth time until we safely rested on level ground and gave the brakes an hour to cool down.

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by scorpio_man on Mar 6^th, 2005, 5:37pm

hi there

i need to agree with eric here regarding the ford discs. i've replaced mine all round only because i left changing the rear pads a week too long. :( i changed the front at the same time as i thought there was a bit of metal missing. turns out this was to balance them :-[

now, i 'push' on every now and then (de-catted, 165bhp+ ;D) and have never had any issue with them. i always use ferrodo pads, which i think the best 'normal' pads available.

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by Badboytunes on Mar 6^th, 2005, 8:47pm

on 03/06/05 at 16:21:15, johnv wrote:

My cars are auto's but I hardly use the brakes, just to give the final stop and hold it still at hold ups.
The trouble is that some people think that they can drive if they scream along, but wise people will know what I mean when I say it is in fact harder to drive slow than fast.

watch out for a Metallic Blue Focus on full chat in your rear veiw mirror John... ;D ;D I'll be flashing my lights urging you out of the way LOL .... DRIVE LIKE YOU STOLE IT :D :D :D :D :D

Cheers Nick ;)

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by proberjohn on Mar 6^th, 2005, 8:57pm

I've got the shimmy at 50 mph when braking lightly - booked into garage next week to have a look at it - it's getting worse.

Suspect bushes as per Vulcan's post - don't think its discs.

John B.

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by Highlander on Mar 6^th, 2005, 10:36pm

on 03/06/05 at 16:31:52, mr._floppy wrote:

Isn't that what Ist and second gear is for? ;)

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by johnv on Mar 7^th, 2005, 6:32am

watch out for a Metallic Blue Focus on full chat in your rear veiw mirror John... I'll be flashing my lights urging you out of the way LOL .... DRIVE LIKE YOU STOLE IT

-----------------------------------------------------------------
But I no old fudy, its just that I drive to the speed limits and with regards to the conditions at the time.
I alway make it as easy as possible for anyone that wants to overtake to do so.
But I never give in to bully boys. I just ignore them. If they hit you up the back, its alway their fault.
Its just cost a chap who did that, while I was at a small road junction waiting to enter the main road.
This is his losses.
One days lost pay from his work.
His NCB for some years to come, you only get it back over four or five years, a little at a time.
His excess, about £200 or £250
Plus higher premiums for his insurance over the next years.
Plus compensating to me for phone calls, travel to get
repair quote and effect repairs. etc. etc.
When you add it all up, over say four years or so ist going to cost him a few thousand pounds.
Well you just add it all up over the years to come.
Hey! How did we get onto insurance again.
Its not smart to be NOT smart. (another of my pet sayings).

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by johnv on Mar 7^th, 2005, 6:39am

I've got the shimmy at 50 mph when braking lightly - booked into garage next week to have a look at it - it's getting worse.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Well on all my cars I had that to some degree, Changing the front discs was an instance cure.
Very well pleased
But I no expert. so I not trying to be one.
But on my 1996 car it now done 138,000 miles that has not need new bushes.
Yours is 1998. But like I say, I no expert just telling you what worked for me

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by Paul B on Mar 7^th, 2005, 6:42am

YAWN!! ;)

Nick... I'll race ya! ;D

(Proper Ford discs, totally unwarped)

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by Badboytunes on Mar 7^th, 2005, 7:48am

on 03/07/05 at 06:42:55, Paul B wrote:

YAWN!! ;)

Nick... I'll race ya! ;D

(Proper Ford discs, totally unwarped)

i think u will win paul....... :-/ :-/ :-/

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by Geoff_W on Mar 7^th, 2005, 10:17am

In my case, when I took my car back at about 4500 miles after new disks and pads with vibration under braking they replaced them under warranty as warped.

Same thing happened twice more and I was really getting wound up about this, starting to wonder if competition bits were called for.

Same garage then did MOT and identified worn bushes which were replaced.

My Scorp has stopped sweetly ever since.

Geoff

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by micco2us on Mar 8^th, 2005, 7:59pm

Had this wobble on my Granada Scorpio. Turns out the steering rack was worn.
Love the quote, Drive like ya stole it!

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by proberjohn on Mar 10^th, 2005, 8:13pm

The garage tells me that bushes are fine and it's the discs. Off the cuff quote was around £150 for new front discs and pads - I can get an axle worths of Delphi pads and discs for less than £45 delivered (Inc VAT)!!!

I have a nice pair of 7mm hex keys which I had to get last week to change the Probe front discs so prob do them myself.

John B.

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by Captain / Vice Admiral on Mar 10^th, 2005, 10:05pm

Warped Disks - Had same problem

Guy said it was caused by heat

Captain

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by proberjohn on Mar 12^th, 2005, 8:52pm

Probably - I think I first noticed it after I cooked the brakes during a four-up run in the Scottish Highlands - at one stop when we got out they really smelt. Hadn't been driving really hard but lots of accelerate/brake/accelerate/brake as we wenr up and down and left and right!!!

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by Highlander on Mar 12^th, 2005, 9:15pm

Thats just the tourist tracks, we have a huge network of secret underground motorways up here ;)

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by bazza1962 on Mar 13^th, 2005, 2:30pm

Had this for over a year,drove me mad,spent a fortune on having most of the front brakes & suspension,not to say wheels replaced only to find it was bushes that needed replaced.I think like Vulcan it was those on wishbone.I had to tell the garage to try this as it was last resort & i had read of a BMW 3 series needing this to cure same problem.

Best of luck,It should cureit.

Barry

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by dart on Mar 16^th, 2005, 9:11am

Thank's guys for all your answers and info!
Sorry about the delayed reply,havin a few probs!
From what has been said,Im starting to think more in the lines of wishbone bushes and steering rack.
I've tried the cheaper version disks and ford originals but after about 6 months or so the wobble begins to return and gets steadily worse with either!
Oh well! in for a penny! Think I'll get the rack and bushes changed.
May not be yet but I'll let you all know the outcome!
Cheers
dart ;D ;D

Title: Re: Steering wobble under breaking!
Post by Tencon on Aug 3^rd, 2005, 10:08am

I have had this shimmy since I got the car at 40,000 miles. Now at 124,000!
The garages have found nothing and the car stops sweetly except when stopping from high speeds under hard (ish) braking. I am convinced it is local heat deformation of the disks.
Notice that the disks have cooling slots running through them. That means that the solid webs between the slots will expand at a different rate to the hollow bits (I am talking about the circular length here, not the thickness - though that applies also!)
It is my theory that as different areas of the disk will be at different temperatures when the car slows quickly, so the uneven heat will result in uneven 'sizes' of different areas of the disk.
This is saying the same thing as we have been looking at but I am offering a slightly different view on the cause.
If I brake evenly and gently (I have been driving with my head switched on and anticipating the need s to slow down) then I get hardly any shimmy or none at all.
If I slam the brakes on from a low speed, say 40ish, the car stops before the heat has time to build up so – no shimmy, but for a minute or so, there is a slight shimmy if I ‘feel’ the brakes.
If I slow down at a fairly hard rate from a high speed, say 70+, then a little shimmy starts up and the harder I brake, the worse it gets.
Coming off the M6 at J3, there is a set of lights at the end of the deceleration lane. These usually stop me long enough for the disks to cool enough that the shimmy felt when stopping is no longer felt until I brake hard again at the other end of the A444/Holbrooks bypass, (Where there are more lights!).
I had a short period at about 100,000 miles when the shimmy was felt all the time, turned out that bush was worn in the front suspension (can’t remember which one and too lazy to go through the mountain of records!) It was replaced, along with it’s matching part on the other side of the car.
However, thanks to this thread, I now have a number of places to check on a regular basis to be sure that I am safe.
So thanks to all who have posted here. :) :) :) :) :)