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        General >> Problems >> Brake bands
        
(Message started by: blondy on Mar 10^th, 2005, 6:49pm)

Title: Brake bands
Post by blondy on Mar 10^th, 2005, 6:49pm

hi, can anyone tell me what the symptoms or faults i would be experiencing if i needed to adjust the brake bands in the auotbox on a cosworth scorpio please? i have just put in a replacement box (second hand) and when driving with the o/d engaged it seems like the clutch slips if i try to increase power, so i have been driving it for three days with o/d off untill i can sort it out, (15 mpg). another thing i have noticed is that when slowing down, the gears occasionally clonk when changing down. any advice wolud be great. thanks pj

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by waders on Mar 11^th, 2005, 10:06pm

Hi,

Could it be that the torque converter clutch is not locking up? Maybe a bad or loose wiring connection (you say box just fitted) I think you should check the wiring to the box before you do anything else. Does the O/D light flash when it "slips"? IF it does a fault code is logged and can be read with OBD!!

8) ;D 8) ;D 8)

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by blondy on Mar 14^th, 2005, 7:48pm

the o/d light doesnt flash at all, it tends to slip when in the higher rev range in the gaers and slips constantly in o/d until i switch it off. have read fault codes yet. thanks

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by blondy on Mar 14^th, 2005, 7:54pm

how do i know if torque converter is locking, also what makes it lock up because there is nothing (no wires, linkeges) connected to it only input shaft from the engine and the output to the gaerbox. the whole autobox thing looks very complicated to me. thanks again.

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by Snoopy on Mar 14^th, 2005, 7:55pm

The brake bands as I understand them lock the transmision into place when that gear is selected.. So I suppose if the bands are not adjusted corectly then the gears might slip.... The procedure for adjusting the b rake bands is on the main site.... but it does require the use of a special tool AFAIK....

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by craig on Mar 14^th, 2005, 7:55pm

usually the brake bands in auto box should not need too much attention............
if you are experiencing problems when slowing down in an auto (car tends to stay in too higher gear etc.),this would usually point to the bands needing adjusting,although it is a recommended servicing item,(and you need the correct tool from fords to do the job),i would not worry too much about it,if the symptoms are not there......

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by blondy on Mar 14^th, 2005, 8:09pm

cauld this sort of problem be caused by any thing elecrical? also after driving to work (8 miles) there is a burnt oil smell.

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by waders on Mar 14^th, 2005, 8:30pm

on 03/14/05 at 20:09:27, blondy wrote:

also after driving to work (8 miles) there is a burnt oil smell.

Not good mate, not good. One of the bands does engage when you go into overdrive (it actualy stops a piece from moving) and if it does let slip it gets very hot and "burns" the oil. I THINK it's the rear most band that does overdrive. If your going to try adjusting it, now would be a good time :-/

8) ;D 8) ;D 8)

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by blondy on Mar 14^th, 2005, 8:38pm

thanks, do you know where i can get a tool from, and the instruction say to turn the adjuster back two turns after using the tool, does this mean two whole turns?

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by waders on Mar 15^th, 2005, 4:27pm

on 03/14/05 at 20:38:27, blondy wrote:

thanks, do you know where i can get a tool from, and the instruction say to turn the adjuster back two turns after using the tool, does this mean two whole turns?

Yes, 2 whole turns and it's a Ford special tool, so from Ford.

8) ;D 8) ;D 8)

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by blondy on Mar 15^th, 2005, 5:57pm

would you happen to know what sort of torque they need to be if i was to use an ordinary torque wrench if thats possible? thanks

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by waders on Mar 16^th, 2005, 11:59am

Hi mate,

I THINK its 8ftlb, too low for a normal torque wrench hence the tool. With older Granada's it just used to be wind it in untill you feel pressure and back off 2 turns. Not overly accurate I know but.........................

HTH

Barry.

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by blondy on Apr 3^rd, 2005, 7:07pm

i have recently done a test for faullt codes and recieved these p1151, p0151, p0161, p1405 and the one that might be relevent to the gearbox is p1761 shift solnoid c performance. does anyone know what this realy means how how i can fix it? thanks pj

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by gaz01gaz on Apr 4^th, 2005, 10:08am

hi,i wonder if my experience can help,i was slowly losing 4th gear on my 24v,eventually it felt as though it had gone altogether,like you i messed around thinking it was this and that until eventually i bit the bullet and took it to my nearest gearbox specialist,told him if it needed a recon box i would be selling it or scrapping it,he said for £100 he would remove the box and find the fault,if it was gonna be too expensive he would put it back,however once stripped it was obvious to him and me when he called me down that the brake band which is engaged for o/d (4th gear) was totally worn beyond use,this is what causes the slipping and eventually feels like you have lost o/d,it is true that it burns the oil as it is the same as a slipping clutch,the band is like a brake shoe with the lining on the inside,and it is this lining what wears away,my advice is bite the bullet and get some proffesional advice....he said in his experience it is when people engage and disengage the o/d at speed which puts extra stress on these parts...hope this helps,,,,gaz

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by Eric_R on Apr 4^th, 2005, 11:01am

Blondy,
P1761 means that the PCM has detected that the shift solenoid C is not working properly - the PCM uses the TSS (Trans Speed Sensor) inside the gearbox and the VSS, (Vehicle Speed Sensor) to determine if the gearbox has shifted as it has been commanded. Clearly it hasn't, because you can feel the transmission slipping.

This could be the solenoid itself sticking, or the brake band worn away. Is the trans fluid on the dipstick brown and smelling burnt? If so it is most likely to be the brake band. There is nothing for it but to get expert advice. Use the Dealers page for some recommended transmission specialists.

Why did you change the first autobox? Perhaps you could get that repaired and then put that back in - that way you could keep using the car.

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by blondy on Apr 4^th, 2005, 9:24pm

thanks, i think i will be seeking professional advice, the oil seems ok but it has only done about 600 miles i changed the old gearbox because it began to lose drive in all gears as soon as it was warm then it would not drive at all untill it was rested for ten minutes then it would go a little further and then stop again. the oil was burnt it that box. so i fitted a secondhand box and thats when i started getting this problem. so i am not sure what was wrong with the old unit or whether it is repairable or not. also gaz the other gears tend to slip when they get to the top end of there rev range before finally changine up, does this sound familier? thanks for reading and hope to get it sorted one way or another. pj. :-/

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by gaz01gaz on Apr 4^th, 2005, 10:02pm

hi blondy,it all sounds too familiar to me ! i only noticed a little slip in third before losing o/d (4th) as suggested why not repair the box you removed in the first place and refit that ? just a thought ;) gaz

Title: Re: Brake bands
Post by blondy on Apr 5^th, 2005, 11:32pm

yes its a thought but i didnt find out what the fault was with the old box before i took it out so i will find time to visit local specialist and ask for some friendly advice before i get my hands dirty again. thanks for reply. :-/