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        General >> Problems >> 2.9 12v non starter
        
(Message started by: Paul_Boulden on Mar 17^th, 2005, 7:29pm)

Title: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Paul_Boulden on Mar 17^th, 2005, 7:29pm

HELP!!! My 1996 2.9 12v Ultima saloon won`t start. It was fine 2 days ago, this afternoon no go.
It turns over but has a weak spark. Friendly RAC man spent an hour on it, substituted coil, positive voltage to coil OK but it won`t fire as spark is too weak. He suggested that the module on the side of the distributor may be at fault or the halls ( ? ) switch.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated as I am a bit stuck. I live out in the sticks and am running on a limited budget ( disability ) so I would like to sort it myself if possible.
TIA
Paul Boulden

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by spiderrat666 on Mar 19^th, 2005, 12:36am

i have the same problem i have changed the moduel on the distributor +cap and rotor arm plug leads plugs coil and still no spark so it may be the halls switch by what the rac told you if you find out what the halls switch is let me know too ???

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Eddie on Mar 19^th, 2005, 4:22am

The hall switch is the bit that replaces the points,somewhere in the dizzy.
So called because it uses the Hall effect to create a switch effect,non mechanical, 'fail proof' !!!!!!

eddie

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Steve_S on Mar 19^th, 2005, 5:20am

Its a long shot, but try disconecting the battery for ten miniuts and then re-connect and try again. Check also all the fuses are ok

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Paul_Boulden on Mar 19^th, 2005, 12:24pm

Hi Spider,
It seems that the Scorpio ( unlike some other cars ) doesn`t have a separate hall switch, the function is served by the ignition module. I have a second hand dizzy & module on the way, if I ever get the bolt out I hope to get it changed on monday.
Do you have a weak spark or nothing at all ? I am getting a spark but it is too feeble to ignite the mixture.
Paul Boulden

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by spiderrat666 on Mar 19^th, 2005, 5:56pm

im getting no spark at all now but i have power going into cap try useing a knuckle with a socket i found this the best way to get the bolt out of the distributor or wobble extention bars will do the job

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Paul_Boulden on Mar 19^th, 2005, 7:39pm

A mate of mine ( VW trained spanner monkey ) has got the distributor out for me, I now have to grind down a socket to get the module off, I hope the replacement module solves the problem, will keep you posted.
Paul Boulden

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Paul_Boulden on Mar 21^st, 2005, 10:01pm

Update:-
I have switched ignition modules and eventually replaced dizzy. I now have a decent looking spark but it still won`t fire, I assume the dizzy has not gone back as it came out so the timing has altered.
Any advice on correcting this would be appreciated.
TIA
Paul Boulden

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Snoopy on Mar 21^st, 2005, 10:55pm

If you marked the distributor and as the manual states then the timing should be just about spot on but you need to get a timing light on it to get it spot on.. Its set by a laser in the facotory but there are timing marks on the crank and front pulley.... But you need to disconnect the fans before attempting this as they can start up unexpectedly.. thats why you have to disconect the plugs on the fans...See also Para 86 in the engine PDf on the main page..

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Paul_Boulden on Mar 22^nd, 2005, 12:28am

Hi Snoopy,
Thanks a lot for your help, para. 86 should tell me all I need to know.
I did mark the distributor but something still isn`t right, the spark looks OK and it seems to want to fire but doesn`t. Out of interest, how are the cylinders numbered ?
Thanks again.
Paul Boulden

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Snoopy on Mar 22^nd, 2005, 8:26am

cylinders are number 123456 with 135 on the left and 246 on the right as you look at it so No 1 the one that is nearest the front of the car firing order is 142536

does that explain it correctly?

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Paul_Boulden on Mar 22^nd, 2005, 10:36am

Hi Snoopy,
Yep, that makes perfect sense ( I have encountered other makes where it would be 1 - 6 front to back rather than 1-3 one side, 4-6 the other ). I also have a set of numbered plug leads which confirm the firing order ( clockwise around the cap ), also confirms that I put the plug leads back in the right order ;D.
I have checked there is fuel coming through so I assume it must be the position of the distributor. If I can`t sort it today I will have to give up and get it towed to a garage.
Thanks for the advice, I hope this thread is helping others as well.
Paul Boulden

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Badboytunes on Mar 22^nd, 2005, 11:50am

if you have fuel and a spark then i think its a timing issue. If you can, remove the rocker cover for cyls 123. Remove the spark plug for No1. crank the engine by hand untill the piston is at TDC. use a welding rod or thin screwdriver down the bore as a guide being VERY carefull. when the piston stops rising the piston is at TDC and both rockers should be rocking. IE valves are closed. Take the dizzy cap off and the rotor arm should be on number 1 pickup. if not then rotate the dizzy until it is. Hopefully the car should start. This is only basic static timing and if the car starts then you just need to get her running smoothly by turning the dizzy. Use a strobe light if you can. This method has worked for me loads of times with the 2.8 V6 and 2.9 fitted to Sierra's.

Hope this helps.
Cheers Nick ;)

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Badboytunes on Mar 22^nd, 2005, 11:51am

Forgot to add.... number 1 on the rotor arm should be between 12 & 1 oclock as you look at the dizzy cap.

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Paul_Boulden on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 10:47pm

Car now running, not perfect but at least it moves ! ;D ;D
I gave up on trying to fix it myself so had the RAC tow it to Plymouth ( Phil Davies Garage, they are VW & Audi specialists but the mechanics are excellent in spite of this ), eventually they got the timing to a state where it would fire but the car has had a very erratic idle for ages so it was impossible to fine tune with the timing light. Looks like I will have to get a new Idle Control Valve ( £51.54 + VAT from Fordparts ) and take it back for final adjustment.
Being off the road for a week has been unpleasant ( no public transport out here ), a vision of the future if Blair & his cronies finally force us off the road.
Many thanks to all those who have helped, especially Snoopy
Cheers all
Paul Boulden

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Snoopy on Mar 24^th, 2005, 8:13am

Glad you got it sorted so that you can use it.

Try Fordparksuk.com a go for the part that you need deliverd to your door and a lot cheaper than FMD's

Give them your VIN and you get the correct part every time.. well I have so far! ;D

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Paul_Boulden on Mar 24^th, 2005, 9:58am

Hi Snoopy,
I have a quote from them for the ICV , drive belts & some other bits, I`ll give the ICV another clean but I think it needs a new one.
Thanks
Paul Boulden

Title: Re: 2.9 12v non starter
Post by Paul_Boulden on Mar 30^th, 2005, 9:38pm

Problem now resolved, back to garage for further adjustment to timing, turns out it was a long way out.
It seems that the ECU can compensate for a lot.
Thanks to all who helped.
Paul Boulden ;D