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        General >> Problems >> On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
        
(Message started by: geraghtyg on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 6:41pm)

Title: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by geraghtyg on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 6:41pm

Evening all

I have a problem with mr rear suspension since I bought the car about a year ago. The problem is that the (camber???) does not appear to be set properly. I have a photo to try to describe this problem:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/geraghtyg/0ee93138.jpg
Ok, took the above photo a few minutes ago. It might be difficult to tell from the photo but the wheel is at a / type angle, though not as severe. The tire is only new as the old tire had work to the thread on the inside after only 10,000 miles. The wheel in the other side also sufferes from this fault but to a lesser extent. The inside of the other tire is just reaching baldness now, after nearly 13,000 miles. Before I purchased the car, The angles of the left hand wheel was at a more severe angle and I got an AA inspection before purchasing. The subframe was also replaced before I bought it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/geraghtyg/P3230091.jpg
I brought it to Ford yesterday and they said that springs might be on their way out, if not gone already but they said they would be hard to come by. Surely this could not be the case, if they are indeed gone. The car is only 7 years old. Does anyone else have any ideas what the problem might be? The ride is fine on the and always has been. Car should be going up onto the ramp in Ford next Tuesday, if there is time.

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by Badboytunes on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 6:56pm

It could be a number of things i think. Worn springs it could be but you would only be able to tell if you replaced them. It maybe weak shockers as well . What are the bushes and rubbers like around the rear sub-frame and other mounting points? A negative camber on IRS would could be caused by aftermarket lowering springs. This is a common problem to the RS boys. However i dont think this is the case. IMO i would get the complete rear end checked by a competent garage or suspension specialist. Try Koni ect to get some ideas....

HTH
Cheers Nick

Edit....... why was the sub-frame replaced? thats not something that should need replacing. Has the car been involved in an accident?

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by geraghtyg on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 7:05pm

Car found not to be have been involved in an accident, according to the AA independent report. Hadn't really a clue at the time what a sub-frame was so I just gave the report to the dealer and he went and put on a new sub-frame which did seem to make a big differnce with regards the wheels.
When I bring it to the ramp at Ford, I'll get the bushes and rubbers around the rear sub-frame and other mounting points checked out. The reason I am going to Ford first is because my uncle is a salesman there and it'll cost me little or nothing to get my rear end :o examined.
Rubbers and bushes may very well be on their way out - I only got all the front ones replaced in the past month as they were shot so I'm assuming the rears are equally worn. They don't squeek or anything like the front ones did when they became worn. The only real problem that this fault causes is excessive tire wear but at the same time, I don't want to have to fork out on a pair of tires every 10,000 - 12,000 miles.

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by mr._floppy on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 7:08pm

Could be weak springs if the car has been regularly used with a full load.

From the photo, the camber don't look that bad, the tyres could be scrubbing due to rear diff/ subframe misalignment.

How's the steering , is it straight or a bit wandered.?

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by geraghtyg on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 7:22pm

Before the sub-frame was replaced, the car would pull to the left when I'd let go of the steering wheel. It's grand now. Although probably not connected, the steering wheel is not centred in that when driving straight, the wheel is in a slightly turned to the left position.
Oh and one more thing, the rear left wheel also appears to be pointing very slightly to the left - only ever so slightly. Not sure if this means anything else. I think she needs to get up on a ramp and get her a*se thoroughly examined ;)

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by bazw on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 8:17pm

have some one follow you to see if the car drives straight or crabs over to 1 side or the other

if it does you have a bent car :(

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by urbanracer on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 8:29pm

Do you know why its got blue overspray on exhaust and suspension ???

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by Badboytunes on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 10:12pm

I wouldnt say thats overspray, just the faded black paint put on car components. Also if your wheel is pionting out then you have a "toe out" situation. This would cause tyre wear and pointas to misaligned suspension geometry IMO

HTH
Nick ;)

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by geraghtyg on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 10:20pm

Yeah Nick - the "blue overspray" is just the black color of the paint, but covered in dirt - Needs a power wash!!! There is a bit of red paint to be seen - This was initially the part I thought had to be changed (rather than the sub-frame) so I sprayed some red VHT paint on to it to insure that the part was repaired by the dealer that I bought the car from. Hopefully the problem is not too severe. I'd imagine toe-out could be rectified fairly easily at a suspension specialists (or dare I say Ford) but who am I to say, being not very mechanically minded at all. Thanks for all your input guys - When I do bring the car in to be seen to, I'll print this info out and show it to Mr Ford and see if he agrees with any of your comments - That's if nobody objects, of course ::)

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by Badboytunes on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 10:23pm

Well i dont mind and im sure others dont. Other members have done just that ;) ;)

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by SaveTheNight on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 10:27pm

bit lost here but ...... the camber nor the castor nor toe in or toe out ..are adjustable on the Scorp rear end .. its probably the result of bushes or poor fitting as the lads have said .. more likely but hopefully not ..a damaged or bent subframe .. if the existing car has not suffered damage then maybe the car they obtained the frame from may have .. shouldn't be too difficult to measure and analyse though .. and hopefully correct .. cheers ...STN
ps. camber won't kill the tyres either usually ...remember Triumph spitfires etc ?? ...castor will though naturally ...

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by Captain / Vice Admiral on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 10:28pm

Will get back to you after further analysis

Captain /VA

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by SaveTheNight on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 10:33pm

I presume someone has checked the rear wheel bearings too as unlike most vehicles they can be absolutely shot yet without the usual drumming or warning signs ...

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by mr._floppy on Mar 23^rd, 2005, 11:03pm

I noticed your wheel has got a few balance weights,
could even be something as simple as a slightly out of true/damaged wheel.

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by Eddie on Mar 24^th, 2005, 3:03pm

A full alignment check would show if chassis was bent.
A worn subframe mounting bush usually causes what I think you are describing.

eddie

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by geraghtyg on Mar 25^th, 2005, 10:48am

I never noticed any Balance weights!!! Whereabouts are they on the wheel. Also Eddie, I like your theory. Seeing as I got a new subframe fitted over a year ago which marginally improved the angle of the wheel and seeing as the angle appears to be getting more severe, I reckon it would be quite likely that the dealer who got the car repaired either did a bogey job on the new subframe and/or used the old bushes, mountings etc. What do you think?

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by Eddie on Mar 25^th, 2005, 5:49pm

WEll its certainly worth getting it checked on a 4 point alignment setup,several tyre places use these now. The ones with the laser beam set up.Deosnt cost a fortune.
This would sort out the misaligned steering wheel if nothing else,be sure to mention this to the tech.

eddie

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by geraghtyg on Apr 9^th, 2005, 2:30pm

Well I brought the car out to Ford yesterday and they had a good look at it. (My uncle who works there made sure of that!) Tracking was bang on. However, the mechanics reckoned it's either the springs and/or the shocks. So it's going in on Monday week to get those bits changed. It'll be expensive but I get at least a 15% discount so it won't be so hard on the wallet. Once that's done, the next thing on my list is a full respray ;D

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by mr._floppy on Apr 9^th, 2005, 5:07pm

I'm still a bit bemused as how the springs or shocks ( OK, maybe really weak or broken springs can alter the ride height ) can influence abnormal tyre wear .

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by geraghtyg on Apr 9^th, 2005, 5:32pm

Yeah it does still seem a little strange all right but still want to get it repaired all the same - We'll see how Ford get on with it

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by admin on Apr 9^th, 2005, 6:45pm

on 04/09/05 at 17:07:25, mr._floppy wrote:

I'm still a bit bemused as how the springs or shocks ( OK, maybe really weak or broken springs can alter the ride height ) can influence abnormal tyre wear .

I guess it may have something to do with the forces applied to the tyres resulting in changes to camber as the suspension components move (they are all rubber mounted so can flex and move). Imagine what happens as a car corners with weak suspension - it leans more from side to side in the corner changing the geometry of the suspension and the forces applied to the tyre plus there is the patter of the tyres on the road surface.

Steve
That's my thoughts

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by scorpio_man on Apr 10^th, 2005, 8:52am

hi there

remember once the wear in the tyres has started, even if the problem is fixed, the tyre wear will be the same. ie inside edges etc.

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by geraghtyg on Apr 10^th, 2005, 3:47pm

Yeah I know. I've already changed one tire (the one in the pic on the first page of this topic) and the other one needs replacing. So I'd rather nip this problem in the bud before I have tires wearing out on the inside AGAIN!

Title: Re: On-Going suspension prob - want to get fixed
Post by ron_c on Apr 10^th, 2005, 4:43pm

From what I understand, the camber varies constantly with weight etc. and even with a constant overload or weak springs, as seen on a lot of early grannies, this should not cause wear to that extent unless you're really pushing it on a regular basis.

A mate of mine had a very similar problem on a Merc 190 after a back end bump. only discovered long after the repair had been done.

Why not try it on one of those roll over tracking testers' that might prove something.

Ron