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        General >> Problems >> Heater Matrix Help!
        
(Message started by: DJWerkz on Jun 24^th, 2005, 8:03am)

Title: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by DJWerkz on Jun 24^th, 2005, 8:03am

I posted this in the 'Give Advice to Others' section but on reflection feel the nature of this request should be in 'Problems'. I really need help on this heater matrix issue please.

OK, have managed to remove the old heater matrix in my Scorpio (not even going to start mentioning what a job that is!), and I am now puzzled somewhat on whether someone has fitted an incorrect matrix in the past.

My Scorpio has the climate control with AC but when I went to get a price for a replacement matrix they asked me whether it is:

FD6098 (Manual A/C)
FD6103 (Automatic A/C)

The company sent me a scan of a Ford document containing drawings of all the heater matrix's they have used and it seems that my old unit cross references to the FD6098 unit.

So, I need to verify what this whole manual/automatic A/C thing is all about and whether it has something to do with climate control being fitted or not?

If it does then surely I have the wrong heater matrix installed in my car and I need to change it for the FD6103?

Anyone know which is the correct matrix for the Cosworth with climate control?

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by LiverpaulH on Jun 24^th, 2005, 9:23am

DJ, I'm sure that they mean automatic = climate control, manual = on off switch only.

Paul

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 24^th, 2005, 9:29am

hi there

eddie has replaced his.....................http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/matrix.htm

he might know more :-/

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by DJWerkz on Jun 26^th, 2005, 9:21pm

So can anyone say for sure what heater matrix should be in a car with climate control and air con?

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by Snoopy on Jun 27^th, 2005, 7:16am

I understood the heater Matrix for the Scorpio with climate control was the same as the one out of the mondeo .

I have checked the finis numbers for the heater radiator assembly on cars with full climate control the number is 7232898 and those with manual heating less A/C the number is 7232897
Hope that helps

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by DJWerkz on Jun 27^th, 2005, 11:02am

Thanks Snoops!

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by DJWerkz on Jul 5^th, 2005, 2:52pm

Got a replacement matrix from my local motor factors today who told me that the matrix in the Scorpio is the same as that used in the Sierra. But, when I got home I checked the physical dimensions of the two and the original unit is clearly larger (longer).

Now I don't know whether I should fit this new one or not???

Anyone help?

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by DJWerkz on Jul 6^th, 2005, 10:17pm

So does anyone have any idea why the matrix for the climate controlled cars would be different to the manual a/c system?
What physical characteristics are different? Must be core sizes as the dimensions seems to be identical between the Ford part numbers.

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by martin_rowe on Jul 7^th, 2005, 8:29am

if memory serves correct, sierra matrix is same as mk3 granada scorpio, not scorpio. factors list same matrix for a/c or cc.

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by DJWerkz on Jul 7^th, 2005, 8:37am

My local factors (Motor-Serv), specifically list a matrix for the Scorpio post '95 'bug-eye' but this when supplied was clearly marked Sierra I & II (same as used for MK3 Granada).

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by DJWerkz on Jul 7^th, 2005, 12:39pm

OK, after telephoning around all morning to various radiator specialists it appears that the Sierra and Granada (including Granada Scorpio), vehicles do share the same heater matrix but the bug-eye shape Scorpio does not.
The Sierra type has a core size of 245 but the Scorpio with full climate control has a core size of 280.
I returned to my local motor factors with this info and they refunded me in full for the previously supplied Sierra type matrix and then telephoned the manufacturer who initially stated that they would always suggest trying to 'get away with using the Sierra one' ( :o ). After telling them the core size difference they then stated that they could supply the correct matrix at around £85 + VAT.
I had previously found a company in SE London called Aaron Radiator who can supply it for £59.00 + VAT.
So beware when replacing the matrix, everyone is telling me that the proper matrix is rare which is why many factors may opt for the Sierra/Granada type.

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by Snoopy on Jul 7^th, 2005, 5:31pm

Try Fordparts UK they will deliver to your door and supply the correct one

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by DJWerkz on Jul 7^th, 2005, 7:59pm

Hi Snoops,
The Finis part numbers you supplied were not recognised by my local Ford parts department, their system comes up as no longer recognised.
Have already contacted FordParts.co.uk, they have quoted me but I need to make sure they are offering the correct matrix unit because so far no one can give me a straight answer on the core size which I now know should be 280-134-42 whereas most places think the old Sierra/Granada matrix size of 245-134-34 is the one to use!
Have found one radiator specialist company that knows exactly which one to supply but they only accept payment via cheque or COD.

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by Snoopy on Jul 7^th, 2005, 10:19pm

The part numbers are getting on for 10 years old and thats all they keep things for generally, can you not have the old one refurbed after all its only a radiator?

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by DJWerkz on Jul 7^th, 2005, 10:31pm

...can't even do that Snoops as the one fitted in the car is incorrect, it's one of the older Granada types! Obviously the previous owner fitted this in an attempt to get the heating system working (it did not work when I bought the car which is one of the factors as to why I got it so cheap).
The matrix in the car is the OEM part number type 85GG, where 85 signifies the year of manufacture (as per the statement from my local Ford parts department).
If FordParts.co.uk can confirm they are selling me the correct 280 core matrix then I will buy it from them.

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by DJWerkz on Jul 8^th, 2005, 1:58pm

At last I have sourced the correct matrix from a radiator specialist not far from where I live (Kempston Radiators, Bedfordshire). £68 +VAT.
FordParts.co.uk provided very efficient quotes but they were not very reliable when trying to get verification on the core size, as to date I have received no word from them on this issue. Not very good customer service :(

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by scorpio_man on Jul 8^th, 2005, 3:36pm

hi there

glad you got the right one in the end.

re fordpartsuk.com, to be fair to them, they just use the ford data base. they then pass the order on to edwards ford (in my case, anyway). in fact, i think trevor is in canada! :o

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by DJWerkz on Jul 9^th, 2005, 12:57am

With regard to FordParts.co.uk the first quote I received was for around £99 delivered, I inadvertantly deleted this email quote and requested a second. This arrived for just over £102.
All my requests clearly stated that they should only quote for the 280 core size.
The second quote came from a different person with much less professional formatting than Trevor uses in his email.
Then I receive a third email again from Trevor quoting the £99 price but finally stating that this is for the older matrix (not the correct one) as they can no longer supply the correct matrix!
Maybe it's just me having worked many years in the Corporate structure (handling Million Pound/Dollar budgets and implementing ultra efficient process improvements and supplier/customer satisfaction programs), expecting too much here,...but then as my wife would say, I am a total perfectionist! :P

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by Tekno on Aug 19^th, 2009, 7:25am

Was the heating system not working because of wrong matrix?
Doesn't make sense to me as other heater matrix is just little bigger.

Is the heater matrix from Mondeo with climate control same ? What is FINIS of it ?

Anyone know if 7232897 can still be fitted to automatic air conditioning? (If I fill the 4 cm cap or just leave it.)

edit: whatever.. I'm going to put that "smaller" instead of correct matrix

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by Tompion on Aug 19^th, 2009, 11:01am

I think as it's shorter you need to pack the end to stop air going round it.
I think I have read that it may snag going in - but I would imagine it can be sorted.

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by Malcolm73 on Aug 20^th, 2009, 10:38pm

Hello DJ,

I have a 24v Ultima with climate control and bought a new radiator last January from Foray Parts.

They supplied the correct radiator. Their invoice reads:-

Item/Code Description Price Dis-Amt Net

FOR 1041093 Radiator £122.54 £30.93 £91.61

Shipping £5.50

VAT Excl. £97.11
VAT £14.56

Total £111.67

I did have a query as the box mentioned 1) Radiator & 2) Seal. The box contained just the radiator, however Trevor Porter checked other stock and you receive just a radiator but no separate seal. Part of the radiator has a sealing foam attached.

A garage at Dudley fitted my new radiator.

I did a lot of work attempting to flush the faulty radiator setting up a hose system and used a pump from ‘Machine Mart’ to exclusively flush the radiator. I apparently succeeded and did have 70C air for just a few weeks.

To anyone with a blocked 24v Ultima heater radiator, do not waste your time. A blocked radiator can not be salvaged. There is no sludge or similar.

I dismantled the faulty unit and found that the waterways were blocked with brown plastic. I can only guess that the plastic is inserted during manufacture and breaks down with age. No flushing chemicals or pressure flushing will remove the blockage which rapidly and easily reseals the waterways.

Malcolm73.

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by adam on Aug 20^th, 2009, 11:50pm

Good work DJ, 280 core is correct. It's amazing how some motor factors will try to fob you off with the wrong part, saying it will do! ::) £68+ VAT is a decent price.
Can't comment too much on Fordparts.co.uk. :-X However, in my experience. I was not impressed with their service.
I now shop elsewhere 8)

Title: Re: Heater Matrix Help!
Post by Simmo on Aug 21^st, 2009, 7:08am

on 08/20/09 at 22:38:52, Malcolm73 wrote:

To anyone with a blocked 24v Ultima heater radiator, do not waste your time. A blocked radiator can not be salvaged. There is no sludge or similar.

I dismantled the faulty unit and found that the waterways were blocked with brown plastic. I can only guess that the plastic is inserted during manufacture and breaks down with age. No flushing chemicals or pressure flushing will remove the blockage which rapidly and easily reseals the waterways.

Malcolm73.

Malcolm. The plastic you refer to is actually a spiral length which appears to be inserted into each of the pipess which make up the matrix. Tompion......who else!! ;D ... cut one open and that's what he found. The thought is that it is there to affect the circulation in some way. It may do so initially but seems eventually to increase the likelehood of blockage.