Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> Problems >> BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
        
(Message started by: shaunskiman on Aug 11th, 2005, 9:13am)
Title: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by shaunskiman on Aug 11th, 2005, 9:13am
Hi all,
Once again my pride and joy (pain) is back in the garage for yet another radiator, the last one was fitted at the end of March 05 at a cost of just under £400 and yesterday it burst at the seams on the n/s bottom of the rad, it was recovered back to the garage that did the work last time and when the rad was removed from the car it was found to have Ballooned. The garage were trying to say it must be head gasket etc but found no problems and after a heated telephone call to their supplier they are getting it replaced as a faulty part  :P I have read the info on the site about this problem and have taken Mr Holmes advise and asked the garage to change the stat at the same time, I wonder if this will really work  ??? I had only covered 3000 miles on the last rad fitted. Is there really no real reason why this happens !
cheers Shaun
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by martin_rowe on Aug 11th, 2005, 9:27am
seems a real problem, particlarly on the 24v, make sure pressure cap is replaced also.
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Highlander on Aug 11th, 2005, 11:30am
The thermostat on the 24v is now reckoned to be the most likely cause of ballooning radiators causing a high pressure burst through the radiator which doesnt give the pressure relief valve time to operate, but you might have to wait a while for one though.
Baz waited for months for his.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/balloon.htm

"That in some circumstances - not common I agree but nonetheless occasional - circumstances and a weak thermostat conspires to overheat a part of the 24V coolant system. With insufficient flow the high temperature overcomes the pressure of the coolant and a plug of steam is created. Since steam is one hundred times greater in volume than the liquid this sends a shock wave of very high pressure through the system, sufficient to balloon the narrow radiator vanes. The radiator nor any of the pipes give way, however, so there is no outward sign, while the now huge pressure forces the steam to return to coolant again."

Holmes finished his glass and put it down carefully.

"But Holmes, why does the pressure cap not let go?" Watson asked.

"A good question, Watson. I can only conjecture here. It is probable that the hydraulic shock is so sudden that the damage to the radiator vanes occurs before the pressure cap can react. Bear in mind that the radiator is connected with broad pipes to the hottest part of the engine, while the header tank has a very narrow pipe, so the hydraulic pressure in the header tank would not be the same in any case."
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Baz on Aug 11th, 2005, 5:30pm
I waited 6 months to be precise so you may get through a few more radiators in that time

Baz
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by SaveTheNight on Aug 11th, 2005, 10:25pm
it's not too bad at the moment ... thermostats are readily available ... STN
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Baz on Aug 12th, 2005, 12:27am
Probably because they waited until there were a few of us that needed them and then made a load. Still made me wait 6 months though!
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by shaunskiman on Aug 12th, 2005, 7:33pm
Happy Days are here again   :D

I THINK  ???

I got the wheels back this afternoon not with a new rad I found, when I got home and had a look I saw marks on the rad that suggested it was a recore job so on the phone I got, to be told that Plymouth radiators had recored it with a heavy duty core  ??? I was also told not to boot it (Their Words) when cold  ??? Does this mean I've to take it easy in the winter  ???
The Thermostat was replaced also at a cost of £50.90p + VAT.
Heres hoping that it will be the last time I have the radiator changed..... ::)
Cheers Shaun I......
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by craig on Aug 12th, 2005, 7:37pm
Hmmmm..recored,didn't baz say that wouldn't last long ?
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Baz on Aug 12th, 2005, 8:31pm
It all depends how good the recore is. I got through 3 recores until the one I have off STN (Dont forget the receipt Bill!!) We are now assuming that if the rad and stat are changed, the problem should not occur

http://www.cmbdg.com/blog/content/wp-content/i/fingerscrossed.gif
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by bigmaltwo on Aug 13th, 2005, 3:34am
seems to me that if there is enough pressure in the cooling system to 'baloon' the rad, it must almost certainly be the head gasket.
the cooling system wouldn't / couldn't generate enough pressure to do that (bearing in mind that the cap should 'blow' at about 13-15 psi) without it boiling (and the associated noises!)
ask garage to do a 'sniffer' test on header tank. any signs of impending head gasket failure will either change coulour of test medium, or show on gas anylyser.
good luck.
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Highlander on Aug 13th, 2005, 11:34am
Head gasket seems to be idea that most garages put forward (quite rightly so, as it is a possibility) but the ballooned rads only seem to affect the 24v and I have heard no one say they had a ballooned rad that was eventually traced to a head gasket problem.
Plus if it were a head gasket then the new rad would surely balloon as soon as the thermostat opened on the initial start up. which they dont do.

I'm not too familiar with the cooling system layout on the 24v but Would a pressure build up behind the thermostat be able to be relieved via the pressure release cap if the thermostat didnt open or is this only possible once the thermostat has  opened and the pressure has "escaped" to the expansion tank "via" the radiator?
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by martin_rowe on Aug 13th, 2005, 12:25pm
thermostat dos'nt hold pressure, only stops circulation, which is provided by the water pump. water pump is not so much a pump, but provides a flow, obviously there is an issue with the 24v cooling system, all the scorps have the same pressure cap, in fact the cap is common to many fords now, the 12v dos'nt seem top suffer from the ballooning problem, even though the basic cyl block,& w/pump are the same, the problem may be compounded by the fact that the rad is quite long, easier to blow up a long ballon than a short one, I have had to replace rads on all my 24vs, one rad only lasted 2 mths, was replaced by my supplier, that rad has now done a further 20k. I think if you can get one, the alloy cored units are better, most replacements have copper cores. STN has probably done a bit more research on this subject.
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Baz on Aug 13th, 2005, 12:51pm
Mal,

definately not the headgasket in either of the cars I have hd rads changed on. First one got through 3 radiators as has this one now. Both have been extensively checked for gasket issues and anything else that was a possibility....all drew a blank. One rad replacement lasted 2 months, I took a rad off a scrapper which hadn't balooned at all and it looked pretty old and that lasted 4 months got one off Danny R which hadn't balooned and although it has a slight leak elsewhere it still hasn't balloned even up until I changed it for one of STN's specials!! So there is no direct link as far as I am concerned with the rads balloning and the head gasket

Baz
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Eric_R on Aug 13th, 2005, 4:43pm

on 08/13/05 at 03:34:22, bigmaltwo wrote:
seems to me that if there is enough pressure in the cooling system to 'baloon' the rad, it must almost certainly be the head gasket.
the cooling system wouldn't / couldn't generate enough pressure to do that (bearing in mind that the cap should 'blow' at about 13-15 psi) without it boiling (and the associated noises!)
ask garage to do a 'sniffer' test on header tank. any signs of impending head gasket failure will either change coulour of test medium, or show on gas anylyser.
good luck.


BigMal,
Yes, this is the problem of taking the usual guess - and end up forking out for new cylinder head gaskets (Kit is £500 a pop, plus labour) and have another radiator go a month later !!
Have you read http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/balloon.htm?

The problem is clearly stated there - the rads balloon with no other symptom and in every case mechanics have first suspected the CH gaskets, but CO and HC checks have not found a problem.  I suspect that at least one owner has paid for this work - unnecessarily.  :'(

And there are no other symptoms usually connected with overheating - no bubbling, or steam gushing out, or even a high temperature reading.  The first that the owners have known about it is when they have spotted the ballooning - while if a cylinder firing event is open to the coolant system there is very definitely a symptom  :o

I'd point out that steam can create enormous pressure - imagine the dead weight of a steam locomotive at rest and watch one of those huge wheels start to move - and it can quickly revert back to liquid if the pressure is high enough.

The facts are there.  It is not a CH gasket leak.  Do you have another theory?
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Highlander on Aug 14th, 2005, 12:27am
Ok got some Radiator questions  ;D

The small hose on the top of the 24v radiator that goes to the expansion tank..  was it added to aid pressure reduction?
Why arent they on the other engine types

Has anyone with the ballooning rad problem checked to see if this pipe is blocked? either totally or partially?

Would a larger/modified pipe from this area possibly help?

Or pressure relief valves somewhere on the  radiator inlet and outlet hoses?

And what causes such a high pressure scenario to cause this ballooning?

Thats it for now :)
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by bigmaltwo on Aug 14th, 2005, 12:48am
ok, message received and understood! :)
as I see it, the only way a rad can baloon is due to excessive pressure build up. (a baloon doesnt blow itself up (unless subject to a vacuum!)) ???. If the thermostat was playing up, it wouldn't present itself until the engine was hot enough to boil the coolant surrounding the block itself (as it couldn't circulate through the rad').
unless the cap on the expansion tank is faulty, any excess pressure MUST vent itself via the cap itself! So what is left? ???
it must be excessive pressure within the cooling system itself. what can generate this kind of pressure (and yes, I do realise how much pressure steam can generate!!), BUT...there should not be steam in the cooling system as most are designed to run at slightly over 100 deg C (due to the pressure maintained due to the valve in the cap).
Ther are only two sources of pressure within the cooling system itself, one being the boiling of coolant generating steam due to overheating (for various reasons), or 'leakage' of combustion / cylinder pressure into the cooling system. I will leave this to the immagination of 'readers' as to where this might come from!
The cap 'should' be the weakest link, and vent excess pressure to atmosphere, but doesn't always. So what's left?
I would always suggest that a 'accurate' test is made (as I stated previously) before going down the route of changing head gasket/s etc.
That is of course unless 24v radiators are made of very soft material (which I doubt!!).
So, in a nutshell. There seems to be excess pressure within the cooling system. Anyone know where else it can come from?
good luck and best wishes.
mal.
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by SaveTheNight on Aug 14th, 2005, 10:07am
well said Mal .. I have researched < and still am doing > this subject ..for quite a long time .. not just for the Scorp but previously for Sierra Cossies and the only other car I see it on .. Fiat Uno Turbos .. I have no doubt that Erics " thermal shock " theory is accurate and as usual with Eric ..it is based on quite comprehensive research and plain facts .. The problem does need a Physics or Scientific clear answer ..as I find that no automotive radiator " expert " or reconditioner will be able to offer ANY sensible or definitive description .. regarding Highlanders ? re the return pipe from the rad to the header tank ..this is never the cause on the 24v ..< although the Sierra < which also had this pipe > did used to blow the header tank water when this pipe frequently blocked at the small bore header tank inlet ..which held an even smaller bore strengthening tube inside the inlet tube ..
I agree though with Mal that Erics description < although perfectly clear in "effect" has never been clear in "cause" ..however .. Eric has enough to do having advised the cure < until a member who has fitted both rad AND stat then balloons ...oops.. the rad ..not the member > without having to state a definitive cause ..
The definitive answer will be found in the heating and ventilation or boiler industry I imagine < if any member has a contact > ..as they are well versed in what they call " water hammer effect " or thermal shock and it's cause .. it does seem strange that the apparent " instant problem " with the thermostat doesn't actually require and action and some rads once ballooned don't continue to balloon every day or week until bursting .. why not ? .. no doubt the stat doesn't suddenly correct itself .. one also has to remember that the stat is quite a rare arrangement being " hung " and " t-pieced " in brass ..with three hoses of different sizes .. one turbulent and from the water pump ..one too small and dangerously positioned through the 24v cylinder head and subject externally to intense temp changes and the bottom hose which changes direction with two 90 degree angles .. hmmm ....
lastly I used to have very similar problems with Chevvies .. Fords and Jensens < Chrysler > with bottom hoses " sucking in under acceleration .. the rubber was not strong enough and most Yanks had springs inside the hoses to prevent this < until the springs rotted out > .. If the Cossie hose did this then that would cause the sudden steam creation .. but my research doesn't back this up  ... oohhh ...i'm " rambling " again ...catch ya all laterrrrrrrrrr ....  STN
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Eric_R on Aug 14th, 2005, 1:54pm
Blimey, you two are hard work  ;D

We've established that many rads have ballooned.  Work through the logic again.  If the ballooning were due to the system design itself then EVERY 24V rad would have ballooned because the same fault would have been present on every 24V engine.  Mine hasn't presented this fault after 120K miles and 9 years.

If the problem was caused by the pressure cap, then every Scorpio would have failed because they all have the same cap.  Ditto any problem with the expansion tank, hoses or radiator itself - if these were the problem then every single 24V rad must have ballooned by now.
But they haven't - ergo, it is not the cap, tank, radiator or pipes.

What is left? Er - the thermostat.  We all know that thermostats don't last forever - they become 'lazy', opening too late or sticking open and sometime if they lose the expansion medium they stay closed - with disastrous results most of us have experienced at some time or another.  What's more, the thermostat type, position and modus operandii is different to all the other Scorpios.  If a single DOHC or diesel radiator had ballooned we could rule this out - but they haven't.  EVERY SINGLE ballooned rad has been on a 24V.

Of course we should check out the coolant for signs of CO or HC and make sure the CH gaskets haven't gone - this is only common sense.  What we mustn't do is shrug and say, like BigMal, 'Well, it must be the head gaskets' and lash out a £1000 or so to get them done.

Look at how much this is costing our owners - radiators expanding all over the country like popcorn at £400 a time, being replaced only to pop again, others forking out their hard-earned on unnecessary cylinder head work as well as a new rad -  :'(

The exact mechanism for this event is not absolutely clear - it probably needs a combination of a particular stat weakness, plus ambient temps, plus engine load and air speed.  It may be a hydraulic shock effect if the thrmostat delays too long and then pops open suddenly, a plug of steam on a hot spot, or a combination of these.  These separate components would not be present all the time and this would explain why some replacement rads have lasted weeks or even months before ballooning again.  If the stat failed shut and you got the burbling noises and half the coolant suddenly dumped itself through the pressure cap you wouldn't have any problem with diagnosis (I hope).  With logic and reason it seems crystal clear to me that this syndrome is caused by a faulty thermstat - just not being so dramatic in showing it!

Some thermostats have been changed for a few months now and not one radiator has ballooned afterwards.  Time will tell - but in the meantime IMO we should get beyond the knee-jerk 'it's the gaskets' response and advise a stat change as a matter of course in order to save our owners' some serious cash.
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by SaveTheNight on Aug 14th, 2005, 2:45pm
er ... not sure why I am hard work Eric ? .. especially as I agree with you < as my post makes perfectly clear > .. my position however is different from yours as I do need to listen to all facts and suggestions in the pursuit of making rads that don't balloon < even despite lazy stats > and any system change or valves than can prevent the occurrence in the first place or in any eventuality ..therefore saving members money and anguish ... rather like this site .." the pursuit of excellence " .. and are you suggesting that 24v owners change stats every year for example to prevent this ?? ..if so then it may be worth the stat advice sitting alongside the battery cover advice on the home page ? ..as the results are almost as inconvenient and costly ...
incidently.. how many stats you have replaced on yours in the trouble free nine years ? ...cheers Eric ..... STN
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Snoopy on Aug 14th, 2005, 7:57pm
I read with interest the problems that arise with the 24v ballooned rads and I too have a theory which in principle is similar to Erics, I think its a pocket  of superheated water .

Water behaves very strangely when heated to temperatures in excess of 100C and its critical temperature of 374 C under pressure.
I am quite sure that the balloned rads are a combination of circumstances that would have to be reproduced in a Laboratory to confirm.

It only need a small hot spot to form in the cooling system near to the combustion chamber for a pocket of super heated water to form and then if it moves slightly or a particle of rust enters that pocket the effect is dramatic.
It is actually an explosion.
If this where to happen in the cooling system then the pressure release on the radiator header tank would not have time to react and the rad would take the full pressure of the explosion and give way.

Ask any one who has heated liquid in the Microwave only to have it 'explode' all over them when putting in a strirring object or a measure off sugar.

the effects are well documented with analytical research to back up the theory.
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Eric_R on Aug 14th, 2005, 10:11pm
No, STN, I didn't mean you.  :D

I'm not suggesting changing the stat on the 24V every year, or anything like that - mine has lasted fine without any problems - but I will change it now I have put a new radiator on.

What I'm suggesting is that IF a rad balloons then when it is replaced with a new/recored one, then the new one should be protected with a new thermostat as well - solely to prevent the same thing happening again.
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Neil W on Aug 15th, 2005, 6:43pm
This thread is very interesting and I find Eric's "Holmes" explanation logical. I have had 2 radiators on my 24v, a car I have had from new in mid 1998.

Originally the car was Company owned and I was the sole driver. The radiator burst in November 2000, at 15000 miles, just after I had bought the car following my (early) retirement. It was found there was no anti-freeze in the coolant and the damage showed all the signs of being caused by freezing up. So much for that particular FMD's service standards >:( . The thermostat was NOT changed.

In May 2003 a coolant hose burst whilst I was driving at speed and all coolant was lost before I noticed the water temperature gauge on red. The pipe was replaced and in response to a query from me about the state of the lower offside of the radiator ballooning, the FMD stated this was "normal" and unlikely to lead to leaking.

We now move to May 2004 when, you've guessed it, the radiator burst when the lower cooling fins came out of the side tank (offside). Mileage 81K. This was replaced with a local factor's cheaper radiator. The thermostat was NOT changed. This episode led me to abandon garage servicing and join this Forum, and learn how to do jobs myself with much help from members (thanks a lot guys).

As of today, at over 7 years old, 95K miles on the clock, a radiator that is 15 months old and still OK, the car is still on the original thermostat. ;D

So, I subscribe to the theory about steam related damage hitting the radiator before other weak links can react.

Should my current radiator fail I will replace it myself with a new thermostat which I have in stock already  ;).

HTH.

Neil W.
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by bigmaltwo on Aug 19th, 2005, 12:02am
sorry to hear about your problem. Current thread seems to (in a way) point the finger towards the thermostat. but from what you say, (and I believe) you cant' blame the thermostat itself every time.
if the t/stat was stuck closed, it would boil up within a short distance.
In reply to Eric's reply??  I must say that I'm not advocating blaming the head gasket every time, just that it should be checked, even if it's only to exclude it from further diagnosis! Seems no one has yet come up with the answer 'en bloc'!
I also 'subscribe' to the water hammer effect mentioned. Very rare, but possible!
Anyway Eric, why are 'we' hard work, just because we dare to post our own points of view?? I can think of lots of harder work than us!!!
Cheers to all, and good luck.
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by dexix on Aug 27th, 2005, 8:43pm
Well my pride and joy goes in next week to have a new rad and thermostat as mine has been identified as ballooning so fingers (and everything else) crossed it will fix the problem! ???
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by bob3057 on Sep 3rd, 2005, 9:59pm
two straps could be put vertically round the rad  while you sort things out.
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Baz on Sep 4th, 2005, 12:59am
Bob,

I tried that on my old red facelift.....it just blew the sides off instead of balooning the bottom!!
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by kimi on Sep 4th, 2005, 3:12am
hi , gentlemen. I've just read all the posts on this subject and wondered if the owners who have gone through a lot of rads have ever had their cooling systems pressure tested to see if either of the heads are cracked this leads to excessive pressure in the cooling system without loosing water. Or removing the stat and running without it to see if the rad ballons, it does no damage to run without a stat but takes longer for the engine to reach opperating temperture and the heater is not as hot, for those of us without a lot of cash ( £400 for a rad seems to be very steep ) it's a way to keep running till funds/cheaper rad is found ???...Kimi  
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by howiedintheplace on Sep 4th, 2005, 10:40am
Hmm well some well thought out stuff in previous posts.

It would be natrual to think the head gaskets have gone but I have seen a fair few 24V's now & after the engines are stripped they show no sign's of gasket failure or cracks when they have ballooned rads.
Some cars show no problems at all & appear to have had the same rad etc all there life?
Others have had new rads or recons & are ballooned so indicate previous owners have had problems. They could be on there 10th rad for all I know.
All the thermosats look orginal.

So as Eric says by elimation it appears to be something to do with the thermosat.
All engine gaskets & pipes are O.K No cracks either but rads keep ballooning?

I reckon it's a faulty stat causing a super heated pocket of water that in the correct envoirment balloons the rad before the pressure cap can react. This only happens due to the layout of the cooling system. Any chemists wish to try & recreate the conditions for us?

So I think Snoopy, Eric & STN are all correct in what they say but the actual problem is a combanation of all therys.
The cooling system gets less efficent through age also & I think that has somthing todo with it because Ford would have issued a TSB if the 24V "ballooned rad" was as common 10 years ago as it is now. Now Ford have dropped surport for the car.


Anyone opened a stat to see what it's like inside condition wise?
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by howiedintheplace on Sep 4th, 2005, 10:45am
Also STN you can get aftermarket stats similiar to the 24v's for track cars?
How much are they, I think they are avaiable in different temps as well?

Maybe cheaper & a lower running temp would help the problem maybe?
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Baz on Sep 4th, 2005, 11:13am
Kimi,

the 24v stat is a 3 way device housed in a brass "shell" as far as I could establish, there are no aftermarket equivilants as there would be little demand or incentive for anyone to tool up to make them. They could be "made to order" by some company I would imagine, but at £45.00 for the ford one, I would imagine a specially made one would be more expensive.

When I first noticed the ballooning rad on my previous S reg, 91,000 miles when bought, there was not too much known about the symptoms on here (a lot have emegerged since though as people have looked under the front and found the saggy rad bottom"!! I had it pressure tested before each of the 4 radiators that one had and each time it was taken up to some well high pressure and there were no issues at all.

Same on my silver one I have now. 58,000 miles when bought and it already had a saggy rad. Put two second hand ford ones on from two older cars (the strange thing being that neither had sagged or balooned at all and yet they were much older cars with higher mileage than mine)

On each occasion the rad went. Ordered the new stat following Erics conclusions and after waiting 6 months for delivery!! it arrived and was fitted along with a recon rad from powercraft engineering (still waiting for the reciept though!!)  Have since battered up and down France and stuck a fair few miles on the car and apart from a split hose at calais on the way back (overtightened the screw on the jubillee clip!) everything is still tickety boo. So I'm with Eric on this one because none of the rads I have put on any of my cars have lasted this long without showing signs of damage........................here's hoping!!
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by shaunskiman on Sep 4th, 2005, 11:39am
UPDATE..
It,s been nearly a month since the last rad change and having a new stat fitted and to date I have no further problems with the cooling system, and thats after dragging the caravan around for a few weeks so here,s hoping the problem is sorted for now. I have had the system pressure tested three times now by the garage and the RAC and theres no problem with head gaskets etc, and Like Baz I also  [] with Eric,s view that it,s now worth changing the stat at the same time as the rad.
Cheers all
Shaun I....
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by kimi on Sep 4th, 2005, 12:45pm
I bought a stat soon after I bought my cossie as I always fit a new stat every autumn,its something I,ve done on every car I've owned.It came from Partco and cost £9.77inc vat..... thats with a trade discount and it was in stock.I will take a photo of it and its box and see if I can figure out how to post it on this site so you can see it.If any of you computer boffins want to email instructions how I'm at... kimi@itz3.net... I've have got a digital camara and a card reader ... Kimi  
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by scorpio_man on Sep 4th, 2005, 1:10pm
hi there

post it to http://www.anyboard.net/autos/cars/scorpio/index.html

then post the addy here using the insert image button above.

hth
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by kimi on Sep 4th, 2005, 1:59pm
could you please use english I'm not very computer literate....Kimi
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by howiedintheplace on Sep 4th, 2005, 2:02pm
Kimi
I think you might have a Mk3 car?
In a earlier post you said remove the stat & now you have one from partco?
Firstly you can not easily remove the stat on a BOB, you would have to join the pipes up somehow & 2nd the stat is only fitted to one car as far as I am aware & it's the 24V BOB 95 - 98, so chances of a pattern part is slim.
I am sure Baz would have searched the country for one.
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by kimi on Sep 4th, 2005, 3:24pm
my cossie is a 97 2.9 24v I said that I had bought the stat to fit in the autumn, ie. sept/oct I haven't fitted it yet, it would be tricky to take a photo when it's fitted ?! from memory it's about 3"-3 1/2" long  x  11/2" dia  and nothing like a standard stat as used in most Ford cars it made to fit inside a pipe/tube. I will fish it out and take some pictures, Kimi  
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Baz on Sep 4th, 2005, 6:29pm
Bad news Kimi....that isn't a Scorpio stat you have there I'm afraid.

This is a Scorpio Cosworth Stat:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/Bazunitec/DSCF5085.jpg

It is made of brass and costs about £45.00 from Fords. There are no copy ones available from anywhere. I spent the best part of 5 months trying to track one down!!

I know exactly which one you have beacause I bought one too....and one from Halfords and about every motor factor between here and Leeds.....pattern parts just do not exist for the BOB cosworth engine because it isn't financially viable to make them. Unless the part is used on the engine of another car of course



Baz
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by kimi on Sep 4th, 2005, 9:05pm
thanks. I'll just wipe away the tears and console my wallet before I put vasalene on this stat and insert it up Partco.You have saved me removing the stat only to find it's the wrong one and causing all sorts of grief, again thankyou.
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by shaunskiman on Sep 5th, 2005, 10:30am
Hi Baz, I looked at you picture of the stat then went to have a look to see if I could work out where it is on my cossy.
There is a brass ended thing on the other end of the bottom hose from the rad where it go,s in to the engine ! looks the same as the end on you picture at the top doe,s that mean thet the other two ends are inside the engine ! sorry if I sound foolish I know next to nothing about engines ???
Cheers
Shaun I....
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Highlander on Sep 5th, 2005, 11:57am
Thats it Shaun, sits underneath between the engine block and the aircon compresser
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by howiedintheplace on Sep 5th, 2005, 12:19pm
Kimi
Parts dealers often get the old MK3 BOA & BOB mixed up.
They think they are the same. In some ways they are but in others they are not, the cooling system is one of them. Even Ford mix them up so don't be to hard on partco ;)
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Eric_R on Sep 5th, 2005, 12:21pm
The schematic is below, guys.  Not shown is the pipe that runs from the centre coolant housing between the V, underneath the n/s cylinder head  :o  to the top of the 'stat.  As Highlander says, you have to look really hard to find it behind the AC compressor - but you can move the compressor out of the way without disconnecting all the gas pipes.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/cool24v.jpg
Title: Re: BLOOMING (Ballooning Rads)
Post by Baz on Sep 5th, 2005, 2:09pm
just be careful not to break the oil pressure switch which is behind the stat and is easily broken....trust me, I know!!


Ford Scorpio Forum » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1!
YaBB © 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved.