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        General >> Problems >> non starter
        
(Message started by: phil_smith on Aug 12^th, 2005, 7:22pm)

Title: non starter
Post by phil_smith on Aug 12^th, 2005, 7:22pm

Can anybody help me I have lots of electrical problems with my 2.9 ULTIMA firstly about 2 weeks ago I had problems with my ignition barrel it was stuck with the steering lock on and no way of turning it, tried to follow your sites intructions on removing the barrel but no joy because i could not get the key into position 2 anyway I ordered a new barrel from Ford and got them to build me a new one up to match my keys £27 job done or so i thought. Started drilling my ignition barrel out to free the steering lock as i got into it and the locking pin collapsed the ignition came on ie position two warning lights so I stopped drilling and disconnected the battery and all the plugs around the steering column just in case I was risking blowing anything after some more drilling I got the old one out. Fitted the new one reconnected everything tried to start it and nothing happened so I checked the connections checked the battery no wires left off the negative etc immobilser seems to be working ok ie. it lights up for a few seconds at position 2 as do all the normal dash board lights. but still no start no clicking nothing, when i first tried to start it however both needles went all the way round and back checked on the site, sure sign of battery problem so i went back to the battery took it out completly checked for any missing wires there were none so I put the battery on charge just in case but it was showing a full charge plenty of acid aswell put it back on the car made sure all wires were on. Note apart from the big negative cables there was only one other black wire which was two wires together going into one ring fitting, there are no others. I tried to start it again needles went all the way around again had a look on the onboard computer it says that the battery is showing 12.9v also tried jump leads no joy there! The car doesn't even try to start so it must be another electrical problem. Spoke to Ford's today they said I have either left a battery wire off or blown a fuse can't find any other battery wires and have checked all fuses they said as long as the imobiliser light light's up for 3 - 4 seconds at position 2 and then goes out it is working properly they don't think removing it and/or disconnecting battery could cause a problem with it anyway. The only other option I have is to call out an Auto Electrician which I am sure will be expensive and on top of the £250 I have just spent getting the climate control working and other electrical glitches I am hoping somebody on this site has some idea's? Hope you can help.

Title: Re: non starter
Post by craig on Aug 12^th, 2005, 7:34pm

got me baffled a bit,but could it be something to do with the PATS system ? ???

Title: Re: non starter
Post by Simmo on Aug 12^th, 2005, 7:37pm

Check the wiring again !!!. There have been posts in the past about a single black wire being 'dropped' when changing the battery. I have just checked mine and you are right there are two black wires on one ring fitting BUT there is also a further single black wire which you may have missed. HTH Simmo

Title: Re: non starter
Post by phil_smith on Aug 12^th, 2005, 7:48pm

i thought it could the phats but ford are telling me its not because my imobilser light seems to be saying its ok i did take the phats ring off when i changed the barrel so i did think that was the problem.
a auto spark told me because i disconected the battery the keys and the car would have to be reprogrammed by plugging in to a computer but when i put this to ford they just laughed and said disconecting the battery would do nothing do it

Title: Re: non starter
Post by phil_smith on Aug 12^th, 2005, 7:52pm

im going to pull the battery out now and check for another wire but im sure there was no others but you never know will let you in a mo cheers

Title: Re: non starter
Post by Eric_R on Aug 12^th, 2005, 8:00pm

Phil,
make absolutely sure that you haven't missed a small lead because this is a common cause of not starting.

Then, make sure that the ignition key is fully off before you reconnected the battery - if the ignition is on the modules will start up in the wrong order.

When you turn on the ignition, watch the LED light, if it starts to flash then count the flashes between the pause and this will give you the PATS code which will tell you what's going wrong.

Title: Re: non starter
Post by phil_smith on Aug 12^th, 2005, 8:36pm

hi thanks for the replies i have just checked for any missing wires and there is nothing no loose wires have looked around the bat compartment under it over it on the sides have followed all other black wires and they all lead somewhere else, or are connected to other wires that run inside the car. reconected bat turned ignition on and red light comes on at position 2 and stays lit for 3 to 4 secs then goes out. any ideas ???

Title: Re: non starter
Post by scorpio_man on Aug 12^th, 2005, 9:14pm

hi there

have you tried to start it in 'N'? :-/

Title: Re: non starter
Post by phil_smith on Aug 12^th, 2005, 9:20pm

yep tried that

Title: Re: non starter
Post by Highlander on Aug 12^th, 2005, 10:00pm

Sounds all very complicated, dont suppose it could be the starter motor? either packed in altogether or not getting an earth?
Had a Nova (yes yes I know) do that on me once, the earth strap to the engine rusted through, everything lights up ok but starter wouldnt turn.

I put one end of the jump lead on the -ve terminal of the battery and the other end of the same lead on the engine block/lifting eye to get it working (BE CAREFUL!!!)

Title: Re: non starter
Post by phil_smith on Aug 12^th, 2005, 10:16pm

PRETTY SURE ITS NOT THE STARTER BUT THANKS FOR THE ADVICE. I HAVE HAD ONE IDEA WHEN I FIRST GOT THE CAR A FEW MONTHS AGO I NOTICED IT HAD A SECONDARY ALARM ON IT THERE IS A SMALL KEY WITH MY BUNCH OF NORMAL KEYS AND THE KEY HOLE IS ON THE SIDE OF THE DASH BY THE DRIVERS DOOR I WONDER IF IT HAS A SEPERATE IMMOBILISER ASWELL

Title: Re: non starter
Post by Highlander on Aug 12^th, 2005, 10:24pm

Starter might be ok but not getting an earth through the engine block? I tried a long while with mine before i sussed it out ;)

I wont sleep tonite if you dont try it ;)

P.S. guys, do i remember reading something about faulty bonnet switches which prevented starting?

Title: Re: non starter
Post by phil_smith on Aug 12^th, 2005, 10:35pm

lol i will give it a go in the morning when when its light so do i just connect one jump lead to the negative pole and the other end to the engine block does it matter where to on the engine block and do i leave the positive alone and dont connect anything to it

Title: Re: non starter
Post by phil_smith on Aug 12^th, 2005, 10:39pm

bonnet switches mmm ive only tried starting it with the bonnet open after doing the lock so thats another one i can try lol

Title: Re: non starter
Post by Highlander on Aug 12^th, 2005, 10:40pm

Yep thats what i did, dont touch the +ve at all, one end on the -ve the other on the block, the lifting eyes usually give a good contact, be careful of the moving bits though.
(yeahhhh this is real car mechanics!! jump leads on the engine block!! non of this electronics mumbo :))

Title: Re: non starter
Post by phil_smith on Aug 12^th, 2005, 10:42pm

will let you all know how i get on tomorrow thanks for the help ;D

Title: Re: non starter
Post by Simmo on Aug 12^th, 2005, 10:43pm

Highlander, Isn't the bonnet switch usually mentioned in connection with Alarm problems rather than 'Starting'. Is that what you were thinking of?

Title: Re: non starter
Post by Highlander on Aug 12^th, 2005, 10:44pm

Yep maybe, its getting late and the beers are kicking in ;)

Title: Re: non starter
Post by mr._floppy on Aug 12^th, 2005, 11:21pm

It don't take much to disable the complicated starting system on the scorp, I was refitting a new rear window safety switch on the centre console recently, while trying to disconnect the multi plug from the old one using a screwdriver ( not recommended ) I spied a little blue flash from the switch, thinking nothing of it I continued on. Then I tried to start her up, nothing, not even a click. A fuse must be gone I thought, but which one? there's about a 60 of 'em!

By sheer fluke the third one I checked was the culprit.

So, it's worth checking all the fuses in a non-start scenario.

Title: Re: non starter
Post by bigmaltwo on Aug 13^th, 2005, 1:07am

sometimes any (extra) alarms / immobilisers that have been fitted, can come 'back to life' when the electrics have been disturbed, even if they were not working before. I've been called out to several breakdowns where a flat battery has resulted in the (previously 'dormant' alarm / immobiliser) coming back into play and preventing the vehicle from starting.
Also had several (two at a garage!!) where the obligatory wire has been missed off the battery when re-connecting....very easy to do, but can be hard to spot!
sounds like a 'simple' problem, but may be hard to to find!! :-[
good luck.

Title: Re: non starter
Post by phil_smith on Aug 13^th, 2005, 8:57am

off to check all fuses and wires again and will try the jump lead on the engine block aswell will get back to you all to let you know how i get on. does anybody know where the small black wire that could be missing from the battery comes from on the car ie its starting point so i can try and trace it to make sure its not missing off the battery and do all scorpios have this elusive small black wire. and what does it do

Title: Re: non starter
Post by phil_smith on Aug 13^th, 2005, 10:47am

success 8) ;D after an hour or so of head scratching this morning tried the jump lead idea looked for a loose black wire checked all fuses (nothing worked) ???
then i had a brain wave, ::) when i drilled in to the barrel the other day i did'nt disconnect the black round plug at the rear end of the barrel, so maybe i did something to it while drilling it. so i just unclipped it put my key in the ignition put a screwdriver into the plug and turned it.
Hey presto the car starts 8) 8) 8) only problem i have now is how to change that part and what its called. also fitting it looks difficult because on the back of the plug are soldered wires that run into the steering column and disappear any help would be appreciated

Title: Re: non starter
Post by Snoopy on Aug 13^th, 2005, 1:47pm

Does it have several plugs on the end of the wires?

if so its finis number
7026883 cost about £30.

Title: Re: non starter
Post by phil_smith on Aug 13^th, 2005, 2:04pm

cant see whats on the other end the wires go together in a sort of loom that goes out of sight down the steering column the other end is round and plastic and it clips on the rear side of the ignition barrel and there is a rectangle in side it that turns to start the car