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        General >> Problems >> Wiring gremlin
        
(Message started by: mazzy_j on Aug 24^th, 2005, 10:10am)

Title: Wiring gremlin
Post by mazzy_j on Aug 24^th, 2005, 10:10am

the intermittant problem i'm having is when i start my '96 td the battery warning light comes and stays on. Usually after a while driving it goes off and the battery is charging but sometime it stays on and the battery goes flat so i think that rules out alternator or battery problems. i've wiggled all the fusebox, starter motor, and alternator connecters with no luck, checked the fuses, checked all the things it could be on the fault finding page without any luck. any ideas what it could be? earth wires?

Regards,

Matt

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by Octavian_P on Aug 24^th, 2005, 11:23am

Have you tried to clean the ground connectors placed near the battery, they get kind of rusted because water from the battery shelf gets on them.

Also battery connectors tend to get oxidezd...

As you said if all the connections have been cheked the only thing that remains is the alternator assembly. Could be the collective brushes, the didiode pack....but i repeat if it works sometimes...then maybe a connection somewhere is at fault. Check agin

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by mazzy_j on Aug 24^th, 2005, 11:39am

the battery connectors were a little bit oxidised, but i've cleaned them up and the light is still on. where abouts near the battery are the ground connectors?

Thanks,

Matt

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by Octavian_P on Aug 24^th, 2005, 1:11pm

The ground connectors that i'm talking about are placed here:
They should be two wires fixed on the body of the car.

http://www.anyboard.net/autos/cars/scorpio/uploads/changing_the_battery_001.jpg
http://www.anyboard.net/autos/cars/scorpio/uploads/changing_the_battery_002.jpg
http://www.anyboard.net/autos/cars/scorpio/uploads/changing_the_battery_010.jpg

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by mazzy_j on Aug 24^th, 2005, 1:38pm

Brilliant, thank you. I'll have a look as soon as its stopped raining to save drowning the engine and the battery.

Matt

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin - Its getting worse
Post by mazzy_j on Aug 25^th, 2005, 8:41am

Morning all, cleaned the earth connector, but the light is still on. Went out for a drive while it was still light, came home and found that none of my headlights or dashboard lights work at all (althought the climate control displays light up), and only the intermittant wiper works, the washer doesn't even make a sound.

Called out the AA and they were round in literally 5 minutes, did some tests and found that power is going into the headlamp switch, going through the fuses and relays in the drivers side fuse box, but then it disappears and doesn't come out of the box.

The thing is all the other electrics work so i'm stuck as to what to check next. Could it be a case of water underneith the fuse box (even though the inside looks dry)?

Thanks,

Matt

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by martin_rowe on Aug 25^th, 2005, 8:49am

check the connectors under the o/s fuse box, a bit awkward, make sur they are all pushed in firmly.

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by mazzy_j on Aug 25^th, 2005, 8:58am

checked them, all seem nice and clean and pushed in. when the AA man tested the pins last night the pins for the headlamps showed no power output at all.

is there a way of testing the alternator directly to see if there is break in the circuit from it to the battery, because putting the tester on the battery shows its not charging, could i simply put the tester onto the two pins on the back of the alternator?

Thanks,

Matt

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by Thunderchild on Aug 25^th, 2005, 11:37am

Hi there,

I think the alternator is on its way out. Probably as a result of the rotor becoming contaminated by power steering fluid leaking from the pipes at the bottom of the steering fluid heade tank. The reason that it works sometimes is because the connection between the brushes and the rotor will sometimes be made as the amount of contamination reduces. I had the same problem on my old Scorp and a change of alternator cured it instantly. Of course you really need to fix the pipes as well and I'm sure that someone on the forum will give you the finis numbers for them.

HTH

Thunderchild

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by mazzy_j on Aug 25^th, 2005, 11:44am

Thanks Thunderchild, there is a little bit of a leak thinking about it. i have another alternator on my project scorpio which i'll borrow off it at the weekend and see if it makes a difference because i know that that one works.

Regards,

Matt

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by Octavian_P on Aug 25^th, 2005, 11:48am

If it's the alternator then why the headlamps and dashboard don't work ? Did something special happend to your car ? Washed it ? I still think it's a connector. What is the voltage of the battery with the engine on ? Should be about 14-14.4 volts. The alternator also can be checked if you can get to the wireing.

Try to dissconect the battery, and take out all your fuses and relays, clean them, put them back and try again.

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by scorpio_man on Aug 25^th, 2005, 11:55am

hi there

i'd try swapping over the headlight switch as well. they can 'burn' the connector at the rear.

also check the big multiplug to the fusebox. it sometimes looks connected correctly, but isn't.

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by mazzy_j on Aug 25^th, 2005, 2:10pm

the headlamps used to work with the ignition warnign light on, as did the dashboard illumination, it was only yesterday when i noticed that there wasn't the usual light reflection on the car in front when sitting in traffic that i noticed. it had been raining all day yesterday but the fuse box was bone dry.

The AA checked all the fuses and tried the big multiplug and found that power was going through the switch and the relay/fuses but the multiplug headlamp pins wern't giving out power to the lights.

Another thing to point out the rear foglights work but the front don't if that helps.

Battery voltage read 12v with engine running.

Looks like I may have a long afternoon/night of head scratching and connection searching because i'm off up to leicester for the weekend and the local auto electrician said he's busy till wednesday next week :(

Is there a page on the main site cos i've been looking and i can't find one which says how to actually remove the drivers side fuse box so i can swap it?

Matt

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by Octavian_P on Aug 25^th, 2005, 5:12pm

Maybe this will help a bit.

http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=fusebox+rebuild&sp-a=sp100172f5

Cheers

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by Paul_Boulden on Aug 25^th, 2005, 6:57pm

If anyone has been fiddling about with plugs etc. under the bonnet and afterwards the headlights don`t work, it is worth checking that the main plug from the drivers side fusebox is located properly. It is held in place with a metal locking arm but the arm can lock correctly even if the the pins are not making contact, it can also affect the wipers.

Paul Boulden

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by mazzy_j on Aug 26^th, 2005, 8:34am

I HAVE BACK LIGHTS! and dashboard illumination. took the light switch out last night and checked the connector block and pin 14 (if i remember right) with a orange with black stripe wire going to it looked a bit burnt, but it seems to still works because i can hear the relays clicking when i switch the lights on.

Taken the multiplug off several times now and hasn't made a diference at all ??? looked at the fusbox rebuild pages but i can't see any instructions about how to actually remove the drivers side fuse box.

1 problem solved, another 2 to go (headlights and wipers)

A big thank you for all your help, much appreciated.

Matt

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by ricky on Aug 26^th, 2005, 8:54am

check that multiplug on the drivers side fusebox ,it may appear to be on correctly but can be one or two pins out , trust me i know as fmd fitted mine wrongly ricky :'( :'(

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by martin_rowe on Aug 26^th, 2005, 8:57am

o/s fuse box removed from inside, all the wires & nuts are underneath above the pedals. good luck

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by mazzy_j on Aug 26^th, 2005, 10:09am

cheers, will try later. just checked the output of the alternator with the engine running and the small wire read 4.8v and the bigger red one was 0v so i think its had it.

i read somewhere that there were 2 different alternators fitted to the 2.5td, i have a spare one from my other scorp but it looks different. do you know if they are interchangeable?

Matt

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by mazzy_j on Aug 26^th, 2005, 1:07pm

oh great, and now the sunroof has decided to get stuck open and won't close. ugh, this really isn't going too well :(

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by Partsman on Aug 26^th, 2005, 1:29pm

There are 2 different alternators fitted. They changed Sept 1996 from 70amp to 120 amp. The mountings were slightly different and the long 5 inch bolt at the top went from 8mm to 10mm amongst other things so at the very least you would have to change the brackets. The block is also different as well so I don't know what is possible and what isn't. ???

Steve

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by mazzy_j on Aug 26^th, 2005, 3:22pm

FIXED! had a word with someone at work who pointed me in the way of an ex-auto electrician who then had a look inside the the big multiplug and found a loose connection inside, 5 minutes later he came and found me and hey presto, i have lights!. ;D

steve, the spare alternator i have is from a 1995 car and mine is a march 1996 model, is there any marking on it to show whether it is 70amp or 120amp?

Thanks,

Matt

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by Partsman on Aug 26^th, 2005, 6:02pm

Matt
As both cars are pre Sept 96 build they should both have 70amp alternator.
There's usually a makers sticker on them somewhere although they normally put it where you can't see it when the alt'r is fitted >:(
If you can find it it should say something like 14 volt 70amp or 14v70a or similar.
If still fitted to car the head size of the top long bolt and nut should tell you. Early ones were 13mm spanner (8mm thread) later ones 17mm (10mm thread).

Steve

PS have you got a vacuum pump fitted onto the rear of them ?

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by malcolm on Aug 26^th, 2005, 8:16pm

even if your alternator is shot you should still have 12volts on the large red wire as this goes directly to the battery the alternator won,t work unless it has 12volts in the first place malcolm

Title: Re: Wiring gremlin
Post by mazzy_j on Aug 27^th, 2005, 4:14pm

steve - yes it does have the vacume pump at the back. i've been driving around a bit today and i've noticed the battery warning light was flickering and went off for about 10 minutes so there could be a dodgy connection somewhere along the line of the big red wire.

Matt