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Title: blocked cat...question... Post by invernessguy on Oct 30th, 2005, 11:12am hi, I have just had a clutch fitted to my beloved car, and when the car came out of the garage, it was running terrible... After some investigation, during which i found 2 vaccuum / breather pipes needing replaced, i have along with the garage, come to the conclusion that the cat has collapsed internally, partially blocking the exhaust. The garage had the whole exhaust off while removing the clutch, and i assume it was damaged at that time, However, I dont really want to blame the garage completely for this, as its a one man band, and i consider him to be my friend too! So, the problem i have for you today guys, is this. IF I REMOVE THE GUTS OF THE CAT, WHAT WILL IT DO TO THE RUNNING OF THE CAR, AND WILL IT CAUSE ANY LONG TERM DAMAGE? WILL THE CAR RUN PROPERLY, OR REASONABLY, EVEN? The garage have offered to remove the guts of the cat, to see if it improves the running... Im all for it, as im only getting 15 mpg at present!, also hunting, and a general feeling of no power. I cant get it to speed up, once the revs go over 2000, and a roaring noise coming from underneath... visual check of exhaust showed no leaks. This surgery will be performed tomorrow, unless i get strong advice not to do it! Im not in a position to spend hundreds more on the cat at present, and i just spent a grand putting it through its taxi test. I expect that if i get a couple of months running reasonably, i will replace the cat at that point. All thoughts will be appreciated, i will try and get online later today for replies, its a 2.3, p reg, manual. thanks, donnie |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by craig on Oct 30th, 2005, 11:47am donnie.... i know the cars can be de-catted,and run ok,sometimes even better i am led to believe,but as far as i know,they wont pass the MOT emission tests,so would have to be replaced at some stage,however,others may know better..... |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by invernessguy on Oct 30th, 2005, 11:54am i was aware of that, and my mechanic had similar thoughts, however, i dont need a test for at least 6 months now, so im only trying to solve an immediate problem, without the expense of fitting a cat now. I do intend to replace it, unless of course the car runs soooo well without it! ;) All i really need to know is, is it safe, will it be fairly quiet? and has anyone done it successfully before? Thanks for the thoughts craig, btw, how is your vnr doing? donnie |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by craig on Oct 30th, 2005, 3:10pm on 10/30/05 at 11:54:24, invernessguy wrote:
COOL 8) 8) |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by scorpio_man on Oct 30th, 2005, 4:03pm hi donnie running without the cat will be fine. you might even get a few more mpg. ;D |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by solarpanel on Oct 30th, 2005, 5:57pm hello i have just got 2.3 estate which would not run properly. the story is......as told to me by seller. 1.car broke down,rac man found that the inlet manifold had cracked,local garage fitted new manifold and car ran ok for 2weeks, 2.on way home broke down again,towed home 3.main ford dealer picked up car and inspected it. 4.car would run but it would rev 2000rpm or so then die it was possible to drive it but it had poor brakes. 5.reason for all this was.....the cat had fell to bits inside,the hot gasses passed through the metal pipe that goes to the inlet manifold melting it underneath the air idle valve,as we all know the inlet manifold runs a vacum and thats why the brakes failed,by fitting a new inlet manifold all was well til the guy return home when the cat got worse it remelted the new £200+vat manifold plus whatever the garage charged for fitting. 6.i have fitted new cat and the inlet manifold and it runs fine. so i would check that the cat is ok and take off the air idle valve to see if the manifold is still ok[the two holes under the valve,ones open the other has a bottom in it]so if you can see into the manifold through both you need a new one. fmd quoted £333 for genuine cat, and £200 +vat for manifold so not a cheap job i was lucky to find a manifold for £65 and i used a part finder and only one came up. hope this helps |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by invernessguy on Oct 31st, 2005, 12:37am thanks for all the replies guys, surgery will commence around lunchtime tomorrow, i will let you all know how i get on! cheers donnie |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by Highlander on Oct 31st, 2005, 3:04am Donnie I have a spare cat on a 2.0 16v (I think theyre the same as the 2.3) you can have it for the postage and some beer money ;) Scorpioman did a scan a few weeks ago on the car its on with no problems so should be good for a while yet. Stuart |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by kanor on Oct 31st, 2005, 9:48am on 10/30/05 at 17:57:27, solarpanel wrote:
I have just bought a 95' scorpio with 2.0 16V DOHC which had blocked cat. A mechanic opened the cat and removed some of the elemet blocking it. Now it runs, but it hesitates a litle during acceleration. Idle is fine and starts verry easy. I can hear a litte exaust-leakage between manifoil and cat. Is it possible that this leak makes it hesitate during acceleration. OR Is it possible that i have a inlet manifold melt down, or is that a issue only on the 2,3 version ? ??? ??? |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by OHC on Oct 31st, 2005, 10:34am Hello! The problem is that the surface of exhaust manifold and CAT is usually corroded and burnt. So you should clean them thoroughly. Degrease the surface before putting a new gasket (it's a MUST!!!) cause it's like a sticker in order you don't disclocate it while installing the CAT! And allways use new nuts! Best regards, OHC |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by kanor on Oct 31st, 2005, 11:02am Thanks for the advice. I'm going to replase the cat so I then will asure the fittings are ok. But do you think this leackage is causing engine hesitation or should I suspect the inlet manufoil to ? br Roald |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by OHC on Oct 31st, 2005, 11:21am Hello! Yes, it can cause slight hesitation at speed: the air suck into exhaust BEFORE HO2S can mislead the sensor! Also check HO2S plug for any sign of corrosion and good connection. Cracked/melted inlet manifold's simptoms are usually more severe: misfire, lack of power, poor idle - as I see it's not the case. Best regards, OHC |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by kanor on Oct 31st, 2005, 1:24pm Ok, Thanks! Thats what I realy liked to hear :D :D Now I'm going to replace the cat and hope that solves the problem. ;) br Roald Norway |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by invernessguy on Nov 1st, 2005, 4:46pm hi guys, car back from garage... woohoo, i have never had it so powerful! dont know about fuel economy, but will let you know after a few days, car feels very responsive, breathing better, and very much faster, even wheelspinning in third with normal driving!! ;D so its been a success so far, but its gonna be hard to go back to the way it was, when i put the cat back on donnie |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by craig on Nov 1st, 2005, 8:59pm how much power do these cats restrict the car by ? anyone any idea's ? |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by kanor on Nov 1st, 2005, 9:25pm By the way: Somebody who knows if I can use a cat from a 2,3l 16V DOHC 98' on my 2.0l 16V DOHC 95' ? I can get a used one from a 2,3l who has run only 70000km for a fraction of the price of a new one for my 2.0l so I realy hope the cats are the same.. ::) br Roald Norway |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by solarpanel on Nov 1st, 2005, 9:49pm my 95 2.0 had two lamba sensors,2.3 has only one, but both fit the manifolds on both engines |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by Octavian_P on Nov 1st, 2005, 9:58pm on 11/01/05 at 20:59:31, craig wrote:
From what i heard it can take up to 20 BHP :o And another 10 BHP for the exaust system :o |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by invernessguy on Nov 1st, 2005, 10:41pm no wonder it feels fast! i feel like i have more than an extra 20 bhp tho, I have owned 2wd and 4wd sierra cosworths in the past, and this is every bit as scary as a 2wd cosworth now... ;D its a drastic inmprovement, not that i would reccommend anyone do it of course :P :P i wonder what the emissions are like? need to get a garage to do a quick test, if i can talk one of my friends into doing it. Also i will check the fuel economy, once i get over the fun of playing with a fast car again a very happy donnie ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by OHC on Nov 2nd, 2005, 5:44am Hello! Invernessguy, please tell in details how the garage de-catted your Scorp. Did they completely remove the guts or only make a hole in the ceramics? Did your car become noisier? Best regs, OHC |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by Octavian_P on Nov 2nd, 2005, 7:08am It shouldn't get noisier |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by invernessguy on Nov 2nd, 2005, 11:25am cats internals completely removed, very dirty messy job, apparrently, and yes it does sound noisier, like a more hollow noise, or a performance exhaust. I can live with the slight noise increase, but i think the fuel consumption is still poor, need to get back in a few days, when i have done some more normal driving ;) donnie |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by OHC on Nov 4th, 2005, 9:06am Hello, Donnie! What about MPG on your de-catted Scorp! Have you tried it in normal driving Best regs, OHC |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by invernessguy on Nov 6th, 2005, 5:22pm mpg is up on blocked cat, was only getting 15 before... now up to 20.3, but nowhere like the 26 - 28 i was getting before the problems started >:( now i have fusebox problems.... its never ending! donnie |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by OHC on Nov 18th, 2005, 1:58pm Hello, Donnie! How is your MPG without cat! has it improved since? I think it's interesting to everybody on the site. Best regs, OHC |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by invernessguy on Nov 18th, 2005, 2:01pm only 21.5 mate... but then again, the car feels more responsive, but is it worth the sacrifice? i find the car spinning a lot at junctions now, when i boot it a bit ;) Am going to refit a new cat soon, i want the fuel economy back up where it was, and also, i dont really fancy driving a winter here, with a car thats a bit too powerful! donnie |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by Highlander on Nov 18th, 2005, 4:39pm on 11/18/05 at 14:01:43, invernessguy wrote:
But thats the whole point of rear wheel drive!! ;) Bring on the snow!!! ;D |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by invernessguy on Nov 18th, 2005, 6:21pm yes highlander, i love it... but my passengers might not, and if my wheels are spinning, my taxi meter goes up faster :P ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by Scorpio_Sam on Nov 18th, 2005, 8:10pm I changed my Cat on my 2.9 12v and the garage recomended fitting a new Lan sensor also, there not too expensive, about £32. they said that the lan sensor failing was probably the cause of the Cat deterioration ! |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by Highlander on Nov 18th, 2005, 8:12pm Ahhh taxi.... now i see lol repeat custom etc :) Ive seen a few Scorp taxis before, didnt think they'd be taxi material with the mpg? |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by scorpio_man on Nov 18th, 2005, 9:27pm copied from the mailing list.... I fitted the pattern cats from S.D.S. in Sheffield #88.00 ea.retail. hth |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by invernessguy on Nov 19th, 2005, 12:56am well highlander, mpg is a trade off for comfort, and all the toys i have... i bought it as a replacement for my skoda octavia, which was only a year old when rammed by a drunk, and it was only supposed to be a stopgap car... but i love it, and it actually is chaeper overall than the skoda, taking imto account, dealer servicing, depreciation, loan payments, etc ;D thanks scorpioman for the heads up on the new cat, i stopped the mailing list, as i was getting too many messages to keep track of >:( donnie |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by OHC on Nov 24th, 2005, 12:31pm Hello Donnie: Have you replaced the cat! What about MPG with a new cat installed? I'm still thinking if it's worth de-catting my 2.0l 16v. We have no MOT problem and some extra bhp is not bad at all! Even in winter! here in Russia good winter tyres rule! But fuel economy is also all-important! Best regards, OHC |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by invernessguy on Nov 24th, 2005, 7:11pm ohc, I have not yet replaced the cat... and after a couple of weeks running, i dont really recommend removing it, fuel economy is WORSE, and the car is a bit noisier... Yes, the car has more power, it feels more responsive, but as a trade off, i would prefer to have my economy back, and nice and quiet again ;) hope this helps, donnie |
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Title: Re: blocked cat...question... Post by martin_rowe on Nov 25th, 2005, 8:49am prescence or not of a cat will not affect fuel consumption, you will get more noise, & approx 3% max power gain. |
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