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        General >> Problems >> What could it be
        
(Message started by: Octavian_P on Nov 13^th, 2005, 11:36pm)

Title: What could it be
Post by Octavian_P on Nov 13^th, 2005, 11:36pm

First I want to salute you all

It's been almoust one year of owning this amazing car. Togehter we did a lot of miles and it was verry nice, but i have a problem i can't sort out and now that i am preapared with more knowledge and i hope we will find some answers.

The car is a 16 Valves 2.3 L, manual gearbox Ghia, with 94.000 miles.

The problem is the throttle.

When the accelerator is firmly press the enginge losses power, it losses rpm's and tends to die.
If the accelerator is pressd lightly the engine revs smooth as silk.

The problem apears after about 20-40 seconds after the engine is started. If the car is left for the night in the morning it works great for half a minute....

When in traffic if i accelerate with power the cars sometimes revs uneavely (but not all the time).
I mention that the cars idles perfectly, sooth and nice.

What i did:

- Checked, double cheked and eaven triple checked for air leaks, there ain't no one

- Disabled the EGR by removing the top hose and covering it.

- Checked with OBD and no fault codes found (except for the ABS) (With the help of Vlad Soare, another site member, we had a look at long term fuel trims, and short fuel trims, oxygen sensors etc. they all look good)

- Adjusted throtle cable (it was a bit loose)

- Cheked TPS

- Cheked wireing looms in the engine bay, found craked insulation of wires and repaired them

- Changed air filter, fuel filter

- Cleaned throttle body, and intake mainfold (carbcleaner)

- Cleaned, and double cleaned the MAF (with residue free carb-cleaner)

- Checked the high tension circuit, coils seem ok (no craks)

now i am waiting a week for the spark plug order (Motorcraft AGPR22P1).

I also saw that the hottes is the engine the bigger is the lost of revs/power.
At start the coldest it is the better for the engine.

So please help me i don't know what to do to it, and i don't want to go to ford because they don't really know how to fix this kind of car and it also cost's not a small but a BIG FORTUNE to get diagnosticated by them (example: to check brake pads, bushes, belts, oil, water, filters, lights, etc. costs about 500 pounds, and in 1 month i make about 140 pounds !!!!!!, as for the car it costed about 4200 pound with 90.000 miles on the clock, and i'll pay for it 4 yers the bank loan. )

Any sugestion is highly appreciated and excuse my english and the big story

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by Octavian_P on Nov 14^th, 2005, 1:15pm

Comeon nobody has no ideea ???? :P

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by OHC on Nov 14^th, 2005, 1:17pm

Hello:

Check fuel rail pressure! It may be faulty fuel pump or sender's filter dirty/clogged, less likely faulty pressure regulator! Check fuel lines under the car. Replace fuel filter as well.

Please, also explain in details how you adjust the accelerator cable!

Thanks in adv,
OHC

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by Octavian_P on Nov 14^th, 2005, 3:12pm

Thanks OHC

Fuel filter is brand new
Is there a special device to check the preasure on the fuel rail or just to take it off and clean it, if there wasn't enough preasure why the car works good till it warms up ???

As for the throttle cable i have got out the clamp near the throttle quadrant, pulled out a bit of the cable and then put the clip back. Before this when i pressed the pedal to the maximum the throttle plate would open partialy (not perpendicular- 90 degrees). Now it fully opens and fully closes.

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by mr._floppy on Nov 14^th, 2005, 7:02pm

As it seems to be temperature related, try unplugging all the engine management temp. sensors : Engine block, radiator, cooling hoses, water pump housing, inlet manifold, exhaust manifold Etc. even the lambda connector. See if that makes it worse or better!

Good Luck.

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by Octavian_P on Nov 15^th, 2005, 7:24am

Will try that also :), anything else, all advices are highly apreciated.

PS: Mr Floppy should i try disconnencting the sensors with the engine turned on or when it is off

Thanks !

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by jackcg on Nov 15^th, 2005, 10:30am

Had almost identical problem on Son-in-Law's 2.3 Auto. Turned out to be the connection between the Cam position sensor and where it disappears into the cable loom along the cylinder head. The insulation had a hirline crack in it (at the cam sensor end) and moisture was causing an intermittent short.
We found the problem by an OBD scan pointing us straight at it. Any chance you can get a member here to scan you? (I'll do it if you're anywhere near Luton)

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by Octavian_P on Nov 15^th, 2005, 12:00pm

Hi jackcg thank you for advice, in my case OBD hasn't got any error code. Will check that wire also.

Thanks, any other similar problems are wellcomed ;)

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by mr._floppy on Nov 15^th, 2005, 12:10pm

Octavian_P,
It's never a good idea to work on an engine when it's running! :o

Safety first.

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by OHC on Nov 15^th, 2005, 12:48pm

Hello!

Fuel rail pressure is measured by a manometer with a special fitting! If it's too low, fuel pump is a culprit - it simply doesn't develop enough pressure. The simptoms are: the engine looses revs or even stalls when you press the right pedal sharply i.e when you need more fuel and the pressure should be increased. It's due to the natural tear and wear of the pump or clogged net filter in the fuel sender! No DTS, of course: the PCM cannot measure the pressure, like in case of faulty fuel pressure!

You can turn to any well equipped garage and ask them to measure the pressure - they should have the gadget and know the parameters! It won't cost a fortune!

Best regards,

OHC

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by Octavian_P on Nov 15^th, 2005, 1:15pm

Thank you OHC

Here's another one could it be the fuel pressure regulator as well ?

Thanks !

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by OHC on Nov 15^th, 2005, 1:36pm

Hello!

Yes, it can!!! []

OHC

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by Octavian_P on Nov 15^th, 2005, 2:17pm

Hmm looks like major dismanteleing it's on the way ;)

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by Pegasus-2 on Nov 15^th, 2005, 7:48pm

Hi Octavian,

if your LTFTs are ok (as you say) then your fuel rail pressure regulator should not be the problem. It will cost you £50 new. :(

Paul

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by Octavian_P on Nov 16^th, 2005, 7:45am

Thank you Paul

First i'll try to get the existing one out and check it for corect operation, then i want to clean the injectors ( i don't think that they were ever cleaned ), will replace spark plugs soon ....(still 1-2 days till delivery) and if this does't help i'll get a bigger hammer and "repair" the engine :P

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by Pier on Nov 17^th, 2005, 4:24pm

Hello and if you dont have changed the fuel pressure regulator its maybe worth the work when i was having some similar problems with my 2,9 12v.Worked much better after that!.

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by Octavian_P on Nov 18^th, 2005, 7:42am

Ok i'll keep that in mind......still awaiting spark plug delivery................ :P

Thanks

Title: Re: What could it be
Post by Octavian_P on Nov 21^st, 2005, 3:02pm

Finnaly the spark plugs had arrived. Got them on the car, the old ones where black, burnt, the central electrode was highly deformed. The car runs the same at first site. Still the nasty hiccup after 30 secods. Now it's to cold outside to look further for problems. I was thinking of dismanteling the fuel rail, the injectors and the fuel pressure regulator, and check/clean them. Could it be that the ICV and EECV prevents the hiccup at startup (more fuel through ICV) till the engine heats up. After that the preassure decreases......and i got the problem. In my country fuel has a verry bad quality regardless from what station you buy it, it has a lots of "stuff" in. My ex-fuel filter was cloged with dirt, rust and other doubtfull particless.