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        General >> Problems >> New Radiator - Airlock ?
        
(Message started by: TerryT on Nov 27^th, 2005, 3:33pm)

Title: New Radiator - Airlock ?
Post by TerryT on Nov 27^th, 2005, 3:33pm

Hi all,

I have a Scorpio 2.3 auto P Reg
I have had this car for about 6 months now.
It had a few problems when I got it but was prepared to spend a few pounds on it.
It had a coolant leak which got the header tank replaced.
Then it was still leaking and I found a small crack in the radiator just under the top hose. I ordered a new on radiator Wednesday.
Then on my way to work Thursday I just managed to drive the car to work as the temperature dropped and water escaped out of the now bigger crack in the radiator.
Someone suggested I use some sort of radseal stuff so I could get home but that didn’t work, so after finding out that the radiator was not being sent out to me until Friday I went and collected it. The chap took the radiator home so I could collect it around 8pm Thursday evening.
I replaced the radiator on Friday and after filling up the coolant and driving about 30 miles home I looked at the top hose which had expanded by about half it’s diameter!
Saturday morning when I checked the coolant level it took about 1 litre of water. I drove to a friend's house about 4 miles away, checked the top hose and it had expanded again. I removed the top hose and made sure all three pipes were not blocked. Filled up with water again, drove round the block but the top hose still expanded.
Sunday and a new thermostat is purchased, topped up the water, left the header tank cap off until the fans kicked in, put the cap on but as soon as the cap goes on the water level drops dramatically in the header tank and you can see water boiling up and splashing about in the header tank.

So have I got just an airlock, and what is the correct procedure to fill up if a radiator is replaced or could it be worse!
Could the water pump be to blame ?

All answers will be gratefully received. :)

Regards

Terry

Title: Re: New Radiator - Airlock ?
Post by Simmo on Nov 27^th, 2005, 3:47pm

Terry, Try reading this link. http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-a=sp100172f5&sp-f=iso-8859-1&sp-q=Cooling+system+. The usual advice is to get the car on a slope, bonnet high, and run the engine with the cap off and rev it to release any trapped air. The link above may have more info.

Title: Re: New Radiator - Airlock ?
Post by TerryT on Nov 27^th, 2005, 4:04pm

Hi Simmo,
Thanks for the quick reply.
The car was on front ramps when I changed the radiator but was level after that.

Thanks for the links. I had a look and had printed down how to get the radiator off but there didn't seem to be a specific way to refill!

As I have been stuck at my mates house since Saturday we are just going to have dinner than we will go and find a hill in about an hour and see what transpires then!

Will let you know how I get on.

Thanks

Terry

Title: Re: New Radiator - Airlock ?
Post by mr._floppy on Nov 27^th, 2005, 4:37pm

When my ancillary drive belt came off a while back I foolishly drove a few miles with no water pump working, the expansion tank, as you described, was indeed boiling and did boil and rattle for a good few minutes after the engine was turned off. Give the water pump and the drive belt a check over.

Title: Re: New Radiator - Airlock ?
Post by TerryT on Nov 27^th, 2005, 8:38pm

Hi,
Just got back from the hill!

It seems no better.

Drove to see someone else on the way back and the top hose was expanding again.

When the cap is then undone about 1 turn then the pressure was let out of the small pressure hose right near the top of the cap.

I have noticed that the header tank cap has an O ring that can be in two places. It was in the bottom place originally. After moving it up a notch when the pressure built up it came out of the small pressure hose and around the base of the cap.

Should the O ring be only in one place ?

I will remove and check the water pump on Monday.

Terry

Title: Re: New Radiator - Airlock ?
Post by Eric_R on Nov 28^th, 2005, 11:20am

Terry,
On the top of the heater tank near the cap there is a smallbore rubber pipe leading to the top hose. Remove this and check that this is clear - if it is blocked it prevents air from escaping from the highest point on the system into the header tank and this is exactly the symptom you describe. IMO it's unlikely to be the water pump.
Normally, if the system is free of problems it should not develop air locks. Did you use the radseal? If you did it might have gunged up the system and prevented sufficient flow. I hope that the overheating episode has not damaged the inlet manifold or gasket.
First of all, check the small pipe as described - it's the one connected to the pipe (4) on the diagram for the DOHC engines on http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/leaks.htm. Make sure the header tank flange for this pipe is clear, too.
Then drain the system, flush and back flush - do this by removing the main pipes from the top and bottom of the radiator and forcing water through each pipe in turn into the engine and allowing it to drain again. Then reverse flush the radiator, too. I know it's new, but the radweld might have coagulated in there, too. Do this by putting the hoses back onto the radiator with the ends free of the engine, then pushing a garden hose into the top one and then the bottom until the radiator runs clear. Then reconnect the system, use some coolant system cleaner, radclean or something on the fillup with clean water, then run the engine again until hot. Hopefully the Radclean will remove any traces of gunge in the narrower channels in the engine.
Then drain and refill with clear water. Run the car until hot again, and top up the header tank as necessary as the thermostat opens. Check the entire system for leaks - the boiling might have forced some gaskets or joins.All should now be well. If it is, drain the system again and refill with at least a 50/50 good quality antifreeze, (I use 60/40)

HTH

Title: Re: New Radiator - Airlock ?
Post by TerryT on Nov 28^th, 2005, 11:40am

Hi all,
Thanks for the reply mr._floppy
I haven't had the chance to take off the water pump yet.

I've just had a garage do a compression test on the cylinders and they said its not good.
1 is 170
2 is 170
3 is 70
4 is 120

So something is blocking the flow.
The top hose is clear as is the small pipe breather thanks Eric_R

If the top hose is removed from the thermostat and radiator and blown down, water comes out of the radiator. If you blow down the radiator water comes out of the thermostat.

So i'm a bit stuck now as to what to do next.
Do you think it's a blockage that can be cleared by me as you suggest Eric_R or does the head need coming off ? :-/
If the head needs coming off that's a bit beyond me.

Thanks

Terry

Title: Re: New Radiator - Airlock ?
Post by charlie_nutmeg on Nov 28^th, 2005, 2:32pm

Terry, I think most will agree that the Granada’s and Sierras are a nightmare when it comes to bleeding the coolant system. I had to park my Mk3 on a slope and leave it running for about 45 mins untill it was completely up to temperature topping it up with water periodically and revving it to clear the air blocks until I got a constant flow of water from the return pipe to the header tank. But your compression test is not good. It could be your head gasket or a crack in the cylinder head or worn piston and rings or unseated or worn or chipped valve.

Is the car burning oil?
If you remove the oil filler cap when the engine is running place your hand over opening and rev the engine slightly. Is there a build up of gas pressure forcing its way out?
Can you see any white vaseliney lumps in the rocker box?
If you have none of these symptoms I would suggest it’s a valve problem and not cylinder head of casket or piston. But if it does have symptoms of gas pressure build up this might be why your radiator went in the first place. Gas pressure from combustion entering the coolant chambers.

But also if you do have an air block in the cooling system this area will build up with steam pressure and cause identical symptoms. I would suggest cleaning and narrow pipes especially that run to and from the thermostat housing area also check the thermostat itself is not sticking buy boiling it in a pan of water to see if it opens.

If you’re not sure take it to a mechanic for his opinion.

Hope this helps.

Title: Re: New Radiator - Airlock ?
Post by TerryT on Nov 28^th, 2005, 4:29pm

Hi all & charlie_nutmeg

The car isn't burning oil
I can't try placing my hand over the filler cap until tonight
There are not any white lumps/signs of water in the rocker box though.

I fitted a new thermostat then parked on a slope for about 20 minutes, water boiled out & I kept topping up.
When I drove off the slope to a level road, it took an extra 4 litres of water, with the top hose still expanding.

What I have noticed is that there is not a constant flow of water from the return pipe.

So possibly a valve problem then ?

I'll try again tonight and give it one more go to see what happens.

Terry

Title: Re: New Radiator - Airlock ?
Post by TerryT on Dec 14^th, 2005, 5:05pm

Hi All,
Here is an update on the car.

It was the head gasket that had gone on it, across cylinders 3 and 4.

I now have to replace the Idle Speed Valve as it is sticking and making a noise.
The engine wiring loom needs replacing.
The alarm had to be disabled as after the car had been standing for a week before it went into the garage, the remote failed to work !
I now find out that the one key I have does not unlock the car but only locks it, so I will have to either dismantle the doors and the boot locks to set them to the key I have or dismantle one door key and get another key cut, so I have then two keys to use in the car!

So apart from the above things it's working ok !

Can any one tell me the best place to get a loom from? Fords say there is not one ion the UK. I seem to remember someone on this site having to get a loom from Fords in Germany. I'll have a look on this site now.

Thanks for all help so far.

Regards

Terry

Title: Re: New Radiator - Airlock ?
Post by Snoopy on Dec 16^th, 2005, 2:19pm

Its probably the key that is worn.. Worth trying just a new key first .. It does not have to a special Ford Key with teh chip in it to UNLOCK the car .. that is the part that has to be there for starting purposes only...
Any dealer can read the key code and its also on the main site.
If you cannot get into the car .. contact me of line either PM or email and I will let you have details of how to get into the car without doing damage.

Title: Re: New Radiator - Airlock ?
Post by TerryT on Dec 19^th, 2005, 2:28pm

Hi Snoopy,
Thanks for the offer.
I can get into the car and when I get a chance I'll remove a door lock to check the number for the doors and boot.

Title: wiring loom
Post by hiacekim on Dec 23^rd, 2005, 10:20am

on 12/14/05 at 17:05:28, TerryT wrote: