Ford Scorpio Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> Problems >> Help,failed MOT!!!!
        
(Message started by: Wafoo on Nov 30^th, 2005, 9:44am)

Title: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Nov 30^th, 2005, 9:44am

My beast has failed the MOT on the dreaded CO emissions reading .53 should be less than .3 and n/s and o/s lower suspension joints!
Does anyone know where I can get the Joints cheap as the Garage guy said they're only available from Ford for £120 each as they're a one piece item.
As for the CO emissions,is this the Cats broken,if so anyone know a good place to get new ones,or if I put one new one on will it do the trick?
Or will a OBD scan point me in the right direction,perhaps a bottle of Red-ex and a thrash down the motorway?
Any advice greedily taken as I'm desperate!

Thanks

:(

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by mr._floppy on Nov 30^th, 2005, 5:16pm

Do you mean the lower suspension arm bushes or the lower steering balljoint?
The bushes can be replaced fairly cheapish but the balljoint requires a complete wishbone unit replacement.

I really do wonder if they properly warm up the engine before the CO idle test.

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by des on Nov 30^th, 2005, 7:13pm

where are you in the u.k.

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Nov 30^th, 2005, 11:16pm

It's the lower steering balljoints,requires both arms,was wondering about the emissions,mechanic just turned the machine on and went for it.
Mind you have been having a few problems with the idle racing to 2000rpm then dropping off to next to nothing before settling down,maybe that's related to the emissions,need to get a scan on it to see where i go with it
I'm in South Wales by the way

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by martin_rowe on Dec 1^st, 2005, 8:47am

if you post the readings from the emission test you may not need scan, also check the plastic 'Ts' under the inlet manifold, a broken one will cause the symptions you describe, infact a vacuum leak any where will, EGR system is another common fail.

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 1^st, 2005, 9:28am

Thanks for the info,I'll have a look for that.
emissions results are as follows:

fast idle 2800-3100 3088 passed
fast idle Co vol% 0.00-0.30 0.53 Fail
F.idle HC Vol ppm 0-200 41 Passed
Lambda 0.950-1.090 1.022 Passed

2.Fast Idle test:

Fast idle 1/min 2800-3100 2914 Pased
Fast idle CO% 0.00-0.30 0.52 Failed
Fast idle HC ppm 0-200 23 Passed
Fast idle Lambda 0.950-1.090 1.012 Passed

Natural idle test

Idle 625-825 476 Failed
Idle CO vol % 0.00-0.50 0.26 Passed

Hope someone can decipher this for me,it has had an idle problem as is shown here seemed to drop off then pick up on the test

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by martin_rowe on Dec 1^st, 2005, 10:19am

check for vacuum leaks, that should sort most of that out, would have been nice to see the O2 value as well, many mot emission test do not print it for the mot, you would need a 4 gas reading for that, also make sure it has a good hard run befor re test. you cats do seem a little lazy or cold.

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 1^st, 2005, 10:46am

thanks,had a quick dive under the hood in between the hail and rain(why does it always do that when your car needs work?)and i'm sure I can hear an airleak towards the rear of the lump,the big pipe that goes to the inlet manifold on the left side of the engine looking forward doesn't seem the best fit,had a gentle tug and it fell out!
Put it back and it calmed things down but still got the crazy racing idle perhaps I've a sticky butterfly valve?

Update

Started the engine let it run for a while,turned it off and undid the petrol filler cap,no vacuum heard,so it looks like I've a leak in the EVAP system somewhere,perhaps tied into the noise I hear at the rear of the engine?
If this rain would stop I might be able to look!!

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by mr._floppy on Dec 1^st, 2005, 5:24pm

Would it have failed on just the variable idle speed anomaly?

On my MOT Natural Idle Test the idle speed was " not checked " .

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 2^nd, 2005, 6:48am

Found the culprit,the T-piece under the inlet manifold had snapped,went to Mr Ford for new t-piece,"sorry mate,got to order whole item",came to £40 for a few bits of hose and a valve!!
Well if it fixes the emissions gotta be cheaper than a pair of cats!
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 3^rd, 2005, 7:58pm

Saga continues,Ford supplied the hose with no valve!!
Cleaned the old one up and tried to fit the hoses,the old ones were very flexible rubber,the new ones are like hard plastic and smaller diameter,will they fit on ,will they hell!
looks like the plenums will have to come off tommorow and hopefully gain some space that way.
Whilst i had a few hours spare I whipped off the MAF and gave it a clean,170000 miles of dust had made it prety mangy looking,quick few squirts of cleaner and it runs a lot smoother on tickover

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 4^th, 2005, 3:30pm

took the plenums/inlet manifolds off put the new hoses on,then realised I'd forgot to get new gaskets for the inlet manifold,doh!
Also managed to drop my one and only 10mm socket down between the fuel rails which is totally inaccessable can see the b****r but can't reach it,bloody Snap-on as well!

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Simmo on Dec 4^th, 2005, 5:51pm

If the socket went down there surely there is room for a telescopic pick up with a magnet on the end??. Available in a number of places including Trading for U and motor accessory shops.

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 4^th, 2005, 6:34pm

Tried that,it's fell under a electrical conduit and sort of wedged itself,way things are going with this car it's the least of my problems.

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 4^th, 2005, 7:47pm

B******s and double b******s!!!!!
Got it all togeather found some gaskets in the spares that came with it,put them on torqued it down,reconnected all the piping and started it..................well tried to!!!
Pops bangs and then stalls,or revs to 2000 then stalls,sounds like theirs a massive induction leak somewhere but everything seems fine,I cleaned all the sensors and valves at the same time with wd40,perhaps I've killed something somewhere?

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Highlander on Dec 4^th, 2005, 8:59pm

Double check evertything has been put back correctly, sounds like somethings missing.

MAF plug connected?

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 5^th, 2005, 9:17am

Had a look,all seems fine,gonna take the inlet manifolds off again then rebuild it,did fairly drench the valves and associated gubbins in WD40 so perhaps that has something to do with it,perhaps keep it going and let it burn of

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by howiedintheplace on Dec 5^th, 2005, 12:02pm

Alot of WD40 will make a engine back fire & run erratically but only for a minute or two.

Recheck what you have done?

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 19^th, 2005, 8:19pm

Another question,does anyone know the torque setting for the rear bush on the wishbone,found the front,pinch-bolt and the bracket settings but can't find the rear bush nut.
Engines running fine now anyhow,was a airleak at the rear of the block.

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Snoopy on Dec 19^th, 2005, 8:32pm

is this th eonfo you require http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/suspension/FSuspSpecs.pdf

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 20^th, 2005, 12:33am

Don't think so,bloody useful stuff thougth,its the actual rear bush mounting nut i'm after,that lives under the lower arm bracket,it's got a 19mm nut on it,clamps down on to a metal spacer,came off quite easy so don't think it's torqued much.

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Snoopy on Dec 20^th, 2005, 7:33am

Well have a look here and tell us which one it is http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/frontsuspension.gif

Or is the info on here http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/wishbone.htm

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 20^th, 2005, 1:30pm

Its item 20 on the illustrated parts cataloque on the first link,all back togeather now,it says to torque load the nuts with the weight of the car on the ground,which is all well and good if you have a carlift like Mr Ford,but is it ok to load them up by driving up and down the street to settle everything then jack it again?
Or is it a case of struggling for access,probably car ramps maybe?

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Snoopy on Dec 20^th, 2005, 6:11pm

If you DO NOT torque up the nuts and bolts with the load on them the bushes will fail very quickly as the owner of the car that the write up is about found tohis dismay....

Worth putting the car on some ramps and trying to do it that way.

The pinch bolt nut is 85NM as shown here http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/suspension/FSuspLowerArm.pdf

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 20^th, 2005, 11:21pm

Yep,I'll give it a go later tommorow,85nm is the pinch bolt but i'm on about the one that holds the rear bush on,same size nut so it should be the same,thanks for the help.

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 3:02pm

Another disaster!!!!
Put it all back together,started her up,squeals like a pig from the drive belt,stripped the tensioner,put it all back togeather ,as soon as you put any tension on the belt the alternator bearing squeals like a stuck pig and the pulley is red hot,so new alternator time,my question is,will any scorpio alternator fit or does it have to be the 24v Cossie one,seen a couple on e-bay for £25

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Snoopy on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 4:00pm

its all here http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/alternatorer.htm

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 4:06pm

Yeah,found it,should really use the search function more often,too many blonde moments at the moment!

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 23^rd, 2005, 10:42am

:'( Well took it back for re-test emissions are exactly the same .53 failed again,at least he didn't charge me!!!!
Anyone any pointers on where to look,took it for a thrash around the lanes for half an hour before the test then left it idling outside for another 15 mins so assume the cats are warm enougth.
Is it worth cleaning the Lambda sensors or are they just for hydrocarbons?

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by mr._floppy on Dec 23^rd, 2005, 3:53pm

I googled in " High CO emissions " and got a informative site

www.aircare.ca ( sorry can't do the link thing.)

It seems high pressure in the crankcase breathing system is a likely candidate for high readings.

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 23^rd, 2005, 6:05pm

Yeah had a read of it,seems like a blast of injector cleaner,check the evap system and an oil change!
But I think a OBD scan is the first port of call.
Thanks for all the help,but starting to lose interest in this beast,it seems to be problem after problem at the moment.

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 24^th, 2005, 3:14pm

Christmas eve with some christmas spirit inside me!
Regained a bit of interest today and had a surf around the net and a look at the car,the site above says that old oil,Evap syatem or crankcase blowby or oily plugs could cause excessive CO readings.
Had a look at my beast,the air filter is contaminated with oil quite badly and the bottom of the airbox is swimming with old oil,crankcase breather quite blocked as well,if I removed the air filter,disconnected the crankcase breather from the airbox,what would this do to the emissions,would the EEC throw a wobbly or some other system go bonkers?

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 24^th, 2005, 3:37pm

hi there

better to take it all apart and clean with carb/engine cleaner. DON'T run without an air fiter. you could damage the MAF if nothing else.

did you ever get a obd-2 scan? that might narrow things down a bit.

hth

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 24^th, 2005, 3:48pm

No,didn't want to run it without the filter,thought I'd better ask first,still trying to get the scan,the garage guy said pop back next week so might have to wait till then.
Get a new filter and stuff while I'm waiting,rather get the cheap things out the way before the big expense of cats :'(

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Wafoo on Dec 28^th, 2005, 5:37pm

Need a bit more help,stripped the airbox apart,as said very oily and filter manky.
Took the lambda sensors off as well,the one's after the cat were lightly coated with soot the ones before the cat were ok,it appears to have a very slight blow on the exhaust after the sensors,presume this will have no effect on the emissions.
Cleaned the sensors anyhow to see what that achieves .
How much effect will the mangy air filter have on the emissions,is the system that sensitive?
It came with a fair bit of service history with the last five MOT's with emissions sheet as well,last year it was like 0.03% and this year .53% so a bit confused as to how it could go so bad in a year,if the cats were breaking down I'd expect a gradual increase.
Anyone any more ideas,really need a scan but nowhere local does it.

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by Highlander on Dec 28^th, 2005, 7:30pm

Where are you located? a member may be able to help

Title: Re: Help,failed MOT!!!!
Post by howiedintheplace on Dec 28^th, 2005, 7:48pm

Put a new air filter in it, check & clean the plug gaps, then take it for a 15 mile drive just before you take it for M.O.T
That usally works unless a lambda sensors has gone or the CATs are dead.

Works for me ;)