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        General >> Problems >> Gearbox
        
(Message started by: kimi on Dec 12^th, 2005, 10:35pm)

Title: Gearbox
Post by kimi on Dec 12^th, 2005, 10:35pm

I'm thinking of changing my Cossie 24v Ultima Estate gearbox from auto to manual,has any body tried / done it . It should be simple enough, yes I know it will take a few days to do but I think it will improve both performance and mpg. Any thoughts ????....Kimi....

Title: Re: Gearbox
Post by nuttyscorp on Dec 12^th, 2005, 11:40pm

loadsa work involved, very time consuming, best ppl to help will be eric_r, and howie!

Russ

Title: Re: Gearbox
Post by kimi on Dec 13^th, 2005, 2:26am

Should be fun though and something to do over christmas ( cause I HATE CHRISTMAS ! ) Parts should not be too much of a problem and my labour is free. I am interested in what others thought of their project when they had finished??....Kimi....

Title: Re: Gearbox
Post by howiedintheplace on Dec 13^th, 2005, 10:37am

Kimi
Look at this http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1133938806

Also other's do this but in other cars.
All relates to the MK3 24V but apart from the ECU info you can copy as the rest is the same.
That is your problem the ECU & PATS.
To fit it & get it connected up is the easy bit. To get the engine to start & run correctly is where the fun starts ;D

Look at this:
http://www.zyworld.com/caprisport/1_24V_Cosworth.htm

Their gearbox is a Sierra V6 front & Scorpio rear with VSS which is what I would go for but build it for yourself ;)

The 24V V6 block is based on the cologne series of engines, so any box will bolt onto it from such a engine.

Eric has looked into it & Bill (savethenight) does the job for a price & is the only guy on here who can say he has done it on a Scorpio as far as I know. I have only done it on MK3 cars :)

Title: Re: Gearbox
Post by howiedintheplace on Dec 13^th, 2005, 12:11pm

Well I just worked out some figures for you as to be honest I can't see a auto making much difference in a 24V Scorpio.

If you like racing Keved up Escorts would be good gains thow ;D

0 - 60 = about 1.5 secs quicker
0.25 of a mile = about 1 sec quicker
Top speed about the same unless you use 0.84 top gear in the box, then 7 mph faster :) but will be worse on mpg :( (Scorpio is not powerful enough for it's top gear hence if you make it higher it will go faster)

MPG will be worse anyway. :( You will be on average 2 less a gallon or 4 if use the 0.84 top.

Title: Re: Gearbox
Post by kimi on Dec 13^th, 2005, 1:13pm

Thankyou , I am going to look into this a lot deeper before I get my sledge hammer , sorry spanners out .The other underlying reason for my thinking is every couple of weeks my o/d light flashes and the gear changes are very lumpy to say the least for about 15/20 miles then all is smooth again. Yes i've cleaned the maf so many times it shines like a" tanner up a sweeps exhaust" So £750 for a box recon ( ouch ) or swap for a manual gearbox and the problem's gone for ever. I wonder if Bill will share his experiences with us ?? How do we find him ?? thanks again for your input ....Kimi....ps I am also considering using Sierra 2.9 XR 4X4 parts and making a 4X4 Scorpio I've a pal with a double garage full of 4X4 parts and I'd get them for next to nothing.

Title: Re: Gearbox
Post by Dave on Dec 13^th, 2005, 1:19pm

Kimi,

Bill is "SaveTheNight" here on the forum, think his website is

www.powercraftengineering.com

:)

Title: Re: Gearbox
Post by kimi on Dec 13^th, 2005, 4:42pm

Thanks Dave I sent Bill an email asking for his thoughts/experiences and asked him to post them here so others interested can read it....Kimi....

Title: Re: Gearbox
Post by howiedintheplace on Dec 13^th, 2005, 7:19pm

Going 4x4 Kimi, now you are getting carried away :o
You would have to change the front cross member, steering rack, front suspension set-up, front ARB, modify gearbox tunel for the transfer box, fit a 4wd oil pick-up, sump, front diff, cut body to suit front drive shafts, 4x4 hubs, front drive shafts, relocate oil filter & still all the problems with going manual on top of all that. That's just what I can think of sat here probably loads more involved.
You would have a slower more thirsty car, only + point is it would handle a little better & you would not get stuck in the snow, unless it gets really deep ;D
Get a old 4x4 Granada Esate & put your BOB 24V in it. Replace all the front panels with Scorpio parts + doors, rear bumper & interior. Job done. It would be so much easier :P

Title: Re: Gearbox
Post by SaveTheNight on Dec 13^th, 2005, 9:10pm

you called ?? ... Hi Kimi and co ..
regarding manual conversions ..well Dave < howieintheplace> has pretty well covered it all for you .. both in this post and another.. and he is spot on ..
< thanx again Dave for Sunday mate ..brilliant and that Cossie was on the key by 8 in the evening when Chris got back ! ... very very grateful for you taking the trouble on a Sunday .. and at such short notice >
.. not much input required after Daves apraisal except the choice of a small box of tricks on the " park" system ..or Daves way at the EEC .. or simply leave the PRNGL switch strapped up safely and in park ...
My advice would be though ..that the project is that interesting and effective .. the time spent may be better served by a T5 box rather than the weaker MT 75 which will not last too long with over 200 horses up it ..let alone further project BHP gains.. possibly 300 plus ..
T5's as Dave will confirm are in Mustangs or some TVRs ..or Ssanyong Musso < I think > and a few more ..
The T5 will take the bellhousing of the earlier Sierra box ..< 1988 vintage Dave ?? is it ? .... > ..
the earlier Granada Cossie LSD diff is better .. everything else has been covered ..except a T56 six speed .. mmm ... it's not rocket science either ..just a bit of perseverence and patience ..

the 4 x 4 ...hmmm ... haven't done that cos it's easier as Dave said to mess around with a 2.9 Granny 4x4 ..I guess ..but it's perfectly feasibile again .. the front prop goes through the sump so it would mean mating that < the sump > ..to the Cossie lump in order to be a Cosworth 4x4 .... I have a feeling that it might just do that actually .. and of course it's highly unlikely that the shafts will mate up to the Ultima Hub flanges < although the space is there if the dust caps are knocked out of the front Ultima hubs ..wishbones and hub flanges though are one offs on the Cossie and in fact on any Ultima ..< engineerable though ! > .. the rear diff will be fine < making sure naturally that the front and rear ratios are the same .. otherwise it's just the space problem and redesigning a few bits and dabs .. < floor and tunnel maybe > .. interesting though ... < I will happily take on a commission build if anyone is that interested !! haha > .... Dave and others will pick the bones of this lot no doubt !! ... I'll watch with interest ... regards ... STN

Title: Re: Gearbox
Post by howiedintheplace on Dec 14^th, 2005, 12:02am

4X4
Well the oil pick-up has to be from a 4wd Sierra to clear the shaft in the sump, a 12V 4wd sump will bolt straight on (a 24V is a modded 12V block after all), fit a manual 4x4 box & all the bits mentioned before etc. Infact you can fit all the bits together just the same as a xr4x4 would bolt together.
You would have to see where everything lines up but I am pretty sure you would have to get a xr4x4 cross member to fit which means a xr4x4 steering rack as well.
Now maybe you could keep the scorpio suspension arms with some mods. maybe?
The hubs would have to be changed to accept either XR or RS drive shafts (different lengths) & a bit cut out of the chassis for the driveshaft movement up & down.
Xr4x4 engine mounts will move the engine to about the right place for driveshaft line up, driver CAT would need to be moved etc etc . . . .
Is alot of work but certainly possible ;D
A 24V diff is 3.64, the front 4x4 diffs are 3.62 or 3.9?. A .02 difference is O.K according to Ford.

T5 if you have the dosh.
Only Ford U.K car that had them was 2wd 16V Cossie ;D
Also TVR's with a V6 bell.

Mustang did indeed have them with a V6 bell don't know exactly what years STN
The Essex & Cologne was fittet to it so I guess a Cologne bell but the 2005 model with the V6 sohc will have a V6 bell.

A MT75 is rated @ 300 Nm by Ford
T5 ???? Well you have so many different versions it's hard to say but as a rule the newer the box the higher the torque it can take. 2005 model = 500+ lbs

T56 is a 6 speed box & is faily hard to get but very strong & heavy :(
The viper uses one.

Cost wise I think the MT75 is the best option for a STD 24V. They are cheap, easy to get & as long as you don't do clutch dumps at 3000 rpm all the time they should last O.K.

Title: Re: Gearbox
Post by kimi on Dec 14^th, 2005, 2:14am

Very interesting gentlemen ! I own a "J" reg 2.0L twincam Xr4x4 and that is great fun to drive , especially when little boy racers see a bearded old fart driving a Sierra and try to play silly $£%&(*s it soon wipes the grins off their faces when they try to follow me round bends and roundabouts , it corners like it's on rails! So imagine how much fun a 4X4 24v Cossie ( R reg estate ) would be .I'm not going to jump straight in though a little thought now could save cash and suiside . The idea of converting a 4x4 granada into a Scorpio in not my cup of tea because it would not be a Scorpio and not worth much , but a real Scorpio 4x4 estate could be worth a bit as it is different. Theres also the insurance to consider I've got 7 years NCB, which will help + i'm just over half a century old ! so it may not be too bad ,but will they insure it? Do we have any insurance agents as members ? The work does not bother me I own all the tools/mig welder/compressor etc etc necessary to do the conversion . I will keep all those who have responded informed with progress .Thanks too all....Kimi.... ps Bill if the wife wins the lottery I'll take you up on your offer !

Title: Re: Gearbox
Post by sally on Feb 28^th, 2006, 8:08pm

{} it would be to much hassle , dont spoil a nice drive sally

Title: Re: Gearbox
Post by cockneysickner on Apr 3^rd, 2006, 1:23pm

take it to mt transsmission in sheefield there ive heard. or theres also a good garage service on derbyshire lane ask for mr brown.hope this helps.