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        General >> Problems >> PATS bypass. *Update*
        
(Message started by: manet on Dec 27^th, 2005, 10:37pm)

Title: PATS bypass. *Update*
Post by manet on Dec 27^th, 2005, 10:37pm

Does anyone know (anything) about this?
http://www.sjgreatdeals.com/tb-556sw.html

Title: Re: PATS bypass
Post by howiedintheplace on Dec 28^th, 2005, 10:08am

Yeah that's what hot rodders use in the states to bypass cars fitted with PATS.
It does work, it can make it so you don't even need a key to start the engine.

I think the one you have linked does not completely deactivate it as it is for remote start but there is ones that do.

Title: Re: PATS bypass
Post by manet on Dec 28^th, 2005, 5:26pm

Well, oki, thank you for your input.

So its a last escape if cant manage to get my PATS working properly.
Will probably resolder my PATSbox this weekend(if its possible) and have a go at the fuseboxes.

Title: Re: PATS bypass
Post by SaveTheNight on Dec 28^th, 2005, 7:16pm

what car is it manet ? .. I seem to have missed a thread ? ... it's highly unlikely that a PATS bypass will work with the Scorpio and even more unlikely that you will find anything to solder < unlike the older Granada which went "dry joint" for a passtime > ..if it's an older Scorpio then PM me and i'll tell you where to solder ..if it's Ultima flashing 1-6 ..then EEC is quite possible .. a second hand PATS module and the key for it will identify the fault .. ie: plug in the module ..put the module key by the ignition barrel transducer aerial and use your own key to start it ... tell me to shut up if I have this thread completely wrong !! lol ..... regards ...STN

Title: Re: PATS bypass
Post by howiedintheplace on Dec 28^th, 2005, 8:09pm

So you have a car with a PATS problem then?

You should try & fix the problem not work around it.

Once you have worked out what it is then it will be cheaper anyway, loads of stuff 2nd hand for a Scorp around.

Title: Re: PATS bypass
Post by manet on Dec 28^th, 2005, 9:57pm

Hi, peeps!

It's a Cosworth 95/96, frogeyes.
I started a thread describing the original fault stalling at Idle when warming up, however after I charged the battery it's dead. It cranks alright, but the PATS gives the 1-6.

I've checked the fuses, relays and fuelcut in the trunk.
Any tips on what to do with the PATS 1 6?
O is there something you are supposed to do, after changing the battery?

Okey, then I better drop the idea about resoldering the PATS. Will control the fuseboxes and fuses once more, maybe remove som plastic just to make sure there isnt any obvious damage to cables.

Is it possible to take the PATS module (and the ignition key) from a Scorp 2.0 96?

Title: Re: PATS bypass
Post by manet on Dec 28^th, 2005, 10:29pm

I found a ECU in germany for 70€, so I will buy it and try.
And PATS+key I can get from a Scorp 2.0 -96 , at the local demolitionyard.
Should I take the fuseboxes from the 2.0 -96 to?

Title: Re: PATS bypass
Post by SaveTheNight on Dec 28^th, 2005, 10:40pm

the 2.0 ltr 96 PATS will start the car and prove the fault yes ..

Title: Re: PATS bypass
Post by manet on Dec 28^th, 2005, 10:49pm

Ok, thank you very much!

Title: Re: PATS bypass. *Update*
Post by manet on Dec 30^th, 2005, 6:37pm

Did some work on the darling today.

First I tried connecting to the PCM thru a Snapon OBD-computer for an hour, couldn´t get any connection. After fiddling with this for some time I discovered that the PCM/ECU was pretty hot, something like 70-80 degr. C.
Is that normal?

I only have experience from Weber-Marelli ECU:s in Sierra/Escort Cosworths and they doesnt get hot likte that.

Anyway, after I had given up on the OBD, I got the ECU out from its residens, had a look at it from diffrent angles and checked the insulations of cables etc.

After this I tried to start the b****r and it Started?!?!

Took it for very short ride, like a quarter mile. While driving with light load at ca 2k rpm, it would just die and then come back on again, and sometimes stall completly. After stalling completly it came back after cranking. Did it a few times.

Got back to the garage and measured the TPS, it was ca 1volt. Thinking it was a bit much I loosened the screws holding it, wiggled it a little, and measured it again. Hmm, 0-0.1volt.
So I thought, somethings gone wrong, tried to start the car, but it was dead again..........

Checked all the realys. Seemed fine. R19 is supposed to be the Enginemanagment relay, with ignition on it has 12v on no.30, but the 86(or 87) doesnt have 12v to make the relay close). A bit funny I think. Tried putting a ccable between 30 and 87 to bypass the R19 but it didnt help.

Accoring to this site: http://www.carsoft.ru/avtorepair/sierra/engcntrl29.pdf
I understand that this is the pinout of the ECU:
Pin 9 GND
Pin 8 +ve
PIN 14 +ve
PIN 55 +ve

But there isnt a cables going in to my ECU at 8 and 9.
PIn 14 doesnt have any voltage.
Pin55 har 12v though.

Another observation: When the TPS didnt get any 5volts anymore, the ISCV still had it's 12v supply.

So people :D
Any suggestions?

Happy new year!

Title: Re: PATS bypass. *Update*
Post by howiedintheplace on Jan 1^st, 2006, 9:41am

Forget about the TPS, don't think it has anything to do with not starting.

ECU how hot???? & it appears to still work ???hmmmm

Is the PATS still flashing that code?

Does your rev counter go to zero before the engine stops when it dies???

Pin 55 is the memory voltage always 12v there?

You need to look on the main site, lots of info there.

Title: Re: PATS bypass. *Update*
Post by SaveTheNight on Jan 1^st, 2006, 9:43am

or just change the EEC/ECU once and for all .... STN

Title: Re: PATS bypass. *Update*
Post by manet on Jan 1^st, 2006, 1:19pm

Hello, people!

The ECU is pretty hor, but not more than I can keep my fingers on it without getting burnt, I would say somewhere around 70 degr. C.
Will buy the unit I found in Germany, and change the ECU, as STN propose.

I dunno if the PATS still gives the 1-6, will have a look at it later.
As for 12v continusly on ECUpin55, I will check that to.

When cutting out in driving, the tach fell all the way to zero, yes.
Which now when you mention it indicates that the ECU cuts out (or goes out of power).

So hot ECU when ignition on and engine not runnig, that shouldnt be hot, cause the transistors isnt grounding any injectors etc. And the ECU cutting on. Makes me beleive more and more in STN:s advise.
Will make some more measuring tonight.

Happy new year!

Title: Re: PATS bypass. *Update*
Post by howiedintheplace on Jan 1^st, 2006, 5:22pm

Yeah something not right with the ECU.

So the rev counter drops to zero before the engine stops then.
It gets it's feed from the Edis so this would be something to do with the Edis system maybe.

But do change the ECU first as it might be the ECU causing it & it should not be hot like that.

Title: Re: PATS bypass. *Update*
Post by manet on Jan 1^st, 2006, 8:03pm

Yupp, update. Today the car wouldnt start, but after fiddling with the ecu, turning it around back and forth, then the car started.....
Did some additional probing today, took an hour, and the ignition was mostly on during that time.....but the ECU didnt get hot today :) It's a comedy.

ECUpin:
14 Fuse41, no voltage
55 Fuse 31Constantly fed(ingition 0,1,2)
40 Fuse 42 Fuelpump, 12v seconds after turning on ignition
71 Fuse37 +12v at Ignition2
97 Fuse 37 +12v at Ignition2

But I am not sure ECUpin14 should have any voltage cause Fuse41 is for the windscreen.
Didn't drive the car till it died today, cause tomorrow the car has to be moved, it's in a friends workshop and he needs to work on his customers cars.

Could check ground etc cause the multimeter was broken, only had a led-tester ;(

Title: Re: PATS bypass. *Update*
Post by howiedintheplace on Jan 2^nd, 2006, 12:09am

ECU pin 14 = If you switch on the heated screen (engine running) then I think it's about 5 V should be present, not important thow.

Pin 55 = As I said it's the battery back up 12V

Pin 40 = Fuel relay. 12V

Pin 71 = Engine relay 12V

Pin 97 = Again Engine relay 12V

Also pin 54 should be 12V with ignition on after a few secs.

May be a bad connection some where then ???

Keep checking O.K so far.

Title: Re: PATS bypass. *Update*
Post by manet on Jan 8^th, 2006, 5:48pm

Update 060108

Feeling better from my cold I attacked the beast again.
After reading about others having trouble with the enginecableharness( also the problems with materials), I decided to have a look at mine.
Started the car to drive into the garage but it stopped, didnt start again, so I wiggled the engineharness and then it started.

It's a LHD, so I guess it differs from yours.
Examining the cables. From connectors(at right front wing) to where it goes in under the EDIS-coils, he cables look fairly ok.
Removed the coil and bracket. From the bracket, to where it goes in under the waterhouseing(that connects to both heads), it looks worse inch by inch. A lot of cracks revealing the metal and just before the bend there is pieces missing of the insulation.

So I decided tp get the whole thing out. Removed throttlehousing, plenum, fuelreail etc, hmm, the harness keeps going thru the engine and to the gearbox. Hopeless........

So I will need a new harness, I saw someone selling one at the Sell-forum, but is it the same (LHD and RHD)?

(A bit skuffed at the moment, will probably keep my mazda and sell the scorp)

Title: Re: PATS bypass. *Update*
Post by manet on Jan 18^th, 2006, 3:01am

Finshed the work, today. I have cut every wire, fitted it with shrinktube(sorry, dont know the english word) and then soldered it. Now in runs ok, starts at first try and doesnt stall. Unfortunatly it seems that I got a minor vaccumleak, oh well, nothing serious.

Thank you everyone for your input and suggestions!

Title: Re: PATS bypass. *Update*
Post by johneisen2001 on Jan 13^th, 2022, 5:21am

I have a ford Scorpio 2.9 12v I have fuel and spark but can not get to start it's not run now for a year. Is there anyone on here that could look at the car for me. I have had the engine loom remade as well.

Title: Re: PATS bypass. *Update*
Post by Snoopy on Jan 13^th, 2022, 7:20am

If you have both then in theory it should run.
Make sure the thinner black wire to the battery is connected and has not fallen down behind the battery.
Also make sure the vacum pipe that goes to the IACV valve on the air intake is fitted and not leaking.
Knowing what part of the country you are would help so members near can reach you DO NOT PUT YOUR ADDRESS ON HERE.