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Title: Headlights just glow! Post by buffio on Jan 9th, 2006, 10:32pm Hi people, newbie here! Sad to say my first post is also my first problem with my little baby :( I left work last night, started the engine and turned on the lights, all good, pulled away and hadn't gone 100 yards when the headlights seemed to go out! I stopped, got out and walked round the front and they were still on but at about the same brightness as if it was the dim-dip running lights. All the other electrics including lights work perfectly (touch wood!!! :P) it's just the headlights that both look like someone's installed a dimmer switch. Can anybody help! I want my nice tip-top working scorpio back! |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by hepburn on Jan 9th, 2006, 10:53pm could be a bad earth connection. Not sure where to point you for help but sure someone here will... |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by Geoff_W on Jan 9th, 2006, 11:47pm First of all welcome Does sound like a possible earth problem, did you try main beam if so what happened? Other possibilities include both bulbs failing within seconds of each other, (can happen) and you can now only see the sidelights. One of our tame electrical experts will be along any minute now ;) Geoff |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by buffio on Jan 10th, 2006, 2:26am :) Thanks for the replies so far guys. A tame electrical expert eh? That sounds exactly what I'm after ! :D The full beam works a charm - probably a bit too well for the other drivers I passed getting home! I thought myself at first that the bulbs had gone but the headlights did briefly work as normal again this morning, just long enough to get my hopes up that it might just have been a one off, before deciding to dim again... |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by Simmo on Jan 10th, 2006, 8:35am I certainly don't put myself in the 'expert' category but have you checked the connectors to the lamps?. It sounds as though the current is getting there But once hot a resistance is set up ie overheats. Could be a corroded pin. Have a look and spray with WD40 and see what that reveals. |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by buffio on Jan 11th, 2006, 3:46am Right then, I've been out and had another better look without the stress of needing to drive home in the dark with no lights... When I was looking at the problem from inside the car it looked like the lights were working but dimmer, whereas it would now appear that it only looked that way and in fact the bulbs aren't lighting ::) With the headlights on (dipped beam) it's only the lower bulb closest to the grille that's lighting. I gather (although I never took the time to check when it was still working!) that what should be happening is that it and the top bulb with the projection system should both light. Just to make things interesting though, when I put the sidelights on the wee bottom bulb and also the top bulb light up fine (albeit not as bright as for dipped beam) so the bulbs can work and current can get there just not when the dipped beam is on. I'll be back out tomorrow with the WD40 to check the pins - thanks Simmo! - but I'm now guessing that it's a problem with either a relay or wiring for what I'm now calling the "big top bulb" that is used when the dipped beam is selected but bypassed when the sidelights are being used. Any thoughts? |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by scorpio_man on Jan 11th, 2006, 6:21am hi there check the switch. it could be burning out on the back pins. hth |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by Simmo on Jan 11th, 2006, 8:59am The next thing to check is: Do you have a battery cover fitted?, are the fuse box lids properly fitted. If these items are not in place you are likely to get all sorts of wierd problems as water will penetrate the circuitry. As Scorpio Man says the other place is the connector at the back of the lighting switch. Go to this link and scroll down to 'electrical'. http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm. |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by buffio on Jan 12th, 2006, 3:55am Thanks again for the suggestions - if it wasn't for the fact I can't see without them this hunt the headlight problem might be quite entertaining! Today's update then - battery cover, main and auxilliary fuse box covers all present and correct. I've checked the fuses (literally all of them) and they're fine, dry as a bone in there. Connectors to the back of the headlights are fine, so is the switch from what I can tell although at one point I thought I might have broken it trying to get the darn thing out :-[ I'm now almost certain that there must be a different relay or circuit used to light the 'big top bulb' for the dipped beam than the one used to light it when the side lights are on, and that the problem is somewhere in that relay/circuit. Can anyone post a link to a complete circuit diagram for the external lighting system or even just tell me if I'm on to a wild goose chase with that idea? |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by scorpio_man on Jan 12th, 2006, 5:58am http://www.carsoft.ru/avtorepair/sierra_el.html this is the scorpio's wiring diagrams, not a sierra's! ;) |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by Simmo on Jan 12th, 2006, 8:11am This may also help, http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/hlampfunc.htm. |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by buffio on Jan 13th, 2006, 12:25am Excellent stuff Scorpio Man, that was what I was after - your link was useful too Simmo but I'd already found it! :P Having checked almost everything else suggested (and had a good look through the other posts on the subject of headlights!) I'm pretty convinced it's the dip beam relay but I'm off to climb head first into the footwell to have a look at the connectors under the fuse box just in case. Anyone know where the best (i.e. cheapest and quickest) place to get a replacement relay would be? I did think about dropping by the local Ford garage but then I felt this terrible stabbing pain in my wallet... |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by 2tired on Jan 13th, 2006, 9:35pm Try spraying the relay and the relay socket in the fusebox with electrical switch cleaner. It worked for me with the same or similar problem. Regards KL |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by buffio on Jan 15th, 2006, 8:27pm Cheers for the tip with the switch cleaner. It didn't work but I'll add it to my list of things to try if (and when!) the next electrical puzzle comes along. I bit the bullet and went to the local Ford garage, and two of their guys both decided it must be the relay since that's the only thing that might produce the symptoms and hadn't already been checked. One new relay later and... nothing :( As a last ditch effort to avoid a full investigation (cue several days of head scratching at the garage and a large bill) I'm going to replace the switch tomorrow and see what happens. On the plus side, I'm sure my night vision is getting better having to drive without headlights... :P |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by locky on Jan 15th, 2006, 8:43pm Had a similar problem on a freinds Granada a while back. It turned out to the Large Multiplug at the front of the main fuse box underneath the cover. You will see it's held in with a bright metal clip. Unclip and remove the multiplug, and check for any green corrosion or scorching at the pins or multiplug itself. hth |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by buffio on Jan 18th, 2006, 3:05am Well I've checked everything I can check myself and no joy. The fuses and bulbs are fine, so are the covers for the fuse boxes and battery. Not a trace of damp anywhere and no chaffing on any wiring. All the connectors I could find are snug as a proverbial bug and look fine. On the off chance the relay and switch have both been replaced, no luck. When I checked the multiplug it was fine too, but having checked it I now have no lights at the front at all bar the indicators ??? It's off to Ford tomorrow to be poked and prodded so with any luck they'll come up with something! |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by hepburn on Jan 18th, 2006, 4:56am bit of a long shot, but have you tried powering up the bulbs directly to a battery to see if they actually work ok? I'd also replace the fuse if you haven't already - and make sure it's the correct rating. Good luck! |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by buffio on Jan 19th, 2006, 12:19pm Hehe, long shots are about all I have left so always welcome! :) That said, bulbs are fine and so are the fuses!! It has now been to the FMD. They spent 3 hours investigating and when I went to pick the car up they hadn't been able to fix it. They told me it was the main fuse box, so I asked them specifically what about the fuse box was wrong. After some head scratching, the service manager explained that he coudn't find the person who had looked at my car but it was probably damp as this was common with scorpios if they didn't have a battery cover to keep the water out. I didn't have the heart to explain that mine has a battery cover or that the main fuse box is at the other side of the car. Or that after weeks of almost daily rain my fuse box is still as dry as a bone. ::) As a final highlight to my day, when I got back in the car to drive away my wipers had stopped working. Now I'll be honest and say that the wiper linkage since I got the car in November has been missing some kind of nut-type-thing and was held together with elastic bands and twisty metal wire. It still worked fine though and the FMD who did the service before I bought it didn't think it was a big issue (if it works fine like that why spend a fortune to replace the whole thing). Post-Ford investigation the elastic bands and twisty wire have been removed altogether and some **%^&^$£&"^&! has actually bent the bits it held together away from each other. When I pointed this out to the garage they helpfully said that if it was patched together then this sort of thing was likely to happen and would I like a quote to replace the entire wiper linkage in addition to the new fusebox. I respectfully declined >:( |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by Dave on Jan 19th, 2006, 1:22pm Sorry if this is a repeat of what Locky said but the large wiring plug for the fuse box on the drivers side can often look like it is well seated and connected but do check it carefully as it has 2 plastic locating lugs that must sit properly otherwise lights can be affected. Apologies if you have already done that! Have you actually removed the lights switch to have a look at the back of it? |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by buffio on Jan 21st, 2006, 9:13pm No bother Dave, repeats welcome as I'm bound to have missed something! Checked the multiplug again and now the full beam etc work ok so I must have not replaced it when I checked it the first time. It's gone back to the original problem now however where everything works except the top dipped beam bulb (except in dim-dip where it does light ???). The switch has been checked (in fact replaced altogether) but no joy. I left it for a couple of days - partly until I can fix the wipers Ford broke and partly because since I got it back from them the front wheels wobble like b*%%£ry over 30mph - and although they were still jiggered on Thursday night the headlight fairies must have been at it because when I tried them on the off chance (I'm an eternal optimist) they worked fine today! Sad that I now can't drive it until I get someone to fix whatever it is the FMD did to the wheels... |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by locky on Jan 22nd, 2006, 1:04am With regards to the wiper linkage, is it one of the connecting rods that actually falls off the ball joint? It is a common problem (even the Granada's done it) Here's a link to the page on the main website, as you will see the connecting rods can be purchased separetly instead of buying a complete unit> hth http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/wiperlinks.htm |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by martin_rowe on Jan 23rd, 2006, 9:01am have you checked the operation of the stalk switch. |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by david_molloy on Jan 23rd, 2006, 7:24pm Hello All Been following this & similar posts for a couple of months - new owner. Numerous annoying / niggling faults with the electrics which can have bigger "knock on" effect elsewhere. I'm no expert but my take is that once the cars are 8 - 10 years old....... corrosion of electrical contacts / connectors & earth points plus wire flexing is possibly a Major factor. I read somewhere on site that some sections are 5V ? as opposed to 12V and assume that lower voltage more suseptable to corrosion effects on connectors/earths. But as also effects 12V circuits not the sole factor. The 1st thing I did with mine was sleeve (where necessary) to protect against rubbing & to secure the flapping wires & loom sections. The reason for mine been loose was the plastic securing clips had failed over time and didn't secure anymore leaving "lumps of harness" presumably moving under driving conditions. Worst cases found so far!!! No doubt more obscure ones to come!! 1. Outer protection of wires worn through due to rubbing on metal bodywork. Fortunately insulation on wires visible not damaged so easily fixed. 2. Loom across front parallel with radiator fasterned to water hose (which had broken clips also) hence "waving about in the wind" with added load from hose. Not a good idea. Hopefully I can find any others to head off future problems. Good thing in that cost is zero or a couple of quid if you don't have any zip ties / sleeving / insul. tape. Should clarify that if wires have to flex for whatever reason then I didn't string them like a guitar Anybody else thinking on similar lines david |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by buffio on Feb 2nd, 2006, 3:58pm I decided to have a wee holiday so the worries of my scorp have been left for a bit. Having come back, first off thanks locky you're absolutely right - it's the short arm that falls off the joint with the motor. I'll probably get around to replacing it but in the mean time I've popped it back together with elastic bands and twisty ties. It seemed to work fine before! A nice FMD (not the one who dismantled the wipers) checked over the steering and wheels etc and said it's all fine apart from needing a bit more air in the tyres - well it had been an entire fortnight since I last checked them :P - and the steering wobble has gone away. On the down side the headlights are back to square one, everything fine apart from the main bulb on dipped beam. Since the problem comes and goes for no apparent reason I can only guess it must be a wire somewhere that's either broken or come loose and since it affects both sides I assume it's somewhere between the switch and the fuse box before the wiring separates off to either side. Looks like I might be restricting myself to daytime driving for a bit longer then! |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by david_molloy on Feb 2nd, 2006, 7:37pm Willing to bet it's an internally broken wire. Had similar problem with Mini in the dim distant past. Spliced in a new section of wire - problem never occured again. Obviously wire moving slightly causing on / off problem Hope this helps as took me several frustrating weeks to find it. david |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by locky on Feb 2nd, 2006, 8:31pm Have you checked the earth wire and earth connections, as david has said could be that there is a break in that wire, possibly rubbing off bodywork. Sounds to me, to be an earth problem :-/ Check for blue/green corrosion on all earth wiring to do with the lights. Could be when it's wet it's connecting with the bodywork and earthing out, but when it dry's out it doesn't. hence intermittent problem. Worth a try ;) |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by Dave on Feb 2nd, 2006, 8:50pm Further to the last 2 replies, I also had this recently when refitting the headlights to my Morris Minor after a respray - one of the wings had been replaced and the earth wire left off. I tried all sorts, including a complete headlight replacement, before realising I had left the earth off ;D It could be worth putting a new earth wire on to see if it sorts it! |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by VSBlue on Feb 3rd, 2006, 12:47pm i have the same problem they just went out my car n reg scorpio 2.9 v6 12v the small side / park bulb lights & main bulb only glows but no dip lights high beam /fog works find but to bright to drive with a r.a.c .man said i was only getting 6 volts to bulb that why only a glow it was not going up to 12 volts for main beam he re wired my high beam to the low beam bulb so i have no high beam or flash now but i can drive at night since then i have changed fuses/relays/switches/bulbs no luck wired main bulb to a 12 volt supply they work so i bought a wiring kite for spot light about £6.00 i am going to wire the dip bulbs up to the kite so it bypass the main car wiring & have the dip light on a switch |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by OHC on Feb 3rd, 2006, 2:00pm Hello, Buffio: Check all the multiplugs underneath the main fusebox. They are difficult to reach from under the dashboard, but still. My left headlamp's dipped beam didn't work. It turned out to be faulty connector under the MAIN FUSEBOX! Best regards, OHC |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by VSBlue on Feb 3rd, 2006, 2:53pm will have a look : i am not the smallest of guys but i will give it a go if you do not here from me i am stuck LOL ;D |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by buffio on Feb 3rd, 2006, 7:56pm That sounds exactly like what's wrong with mine VSB, and I have to admit I spent the best part of yesterday toying with the idea of rewiring or possibly changing the bulbs over to 100W rather than 50W. Obviously changing the bulbs they still wouldn't work on dipped beam, but when they did come on dim/dip I figured they'd be twice as bright - true I'd be driving with my sidelights on technically but it should have the same effect as dipped beam and nobody but me sees what the switch is pointing to... I was going to check the multiplugs under the dash before, but I got half way to being able to see what I was doing and got a bit, well, stuck. :-[ I'll need to take another stab at it. Dave/Locky - I'm well up for checking the earth, but I've no idea where to find it! ??? No chance there's a handy map somewhere? |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by martin_rowe on Feb 4th, 2006, 8:34am from memory h/lamp earths are on the inner wings / chassis rails at the front just behind front panel, one each side. |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by buffio on Feb 4th, 2006, 5:28pm Been under the dash now and it seems to be OK under there. Next stop the earth wire if I can get at it! Anyone any thoughts on sticking 100W bulbs in, my theory being that if the dim/dip lights the bulbs in series and therefore at half the voltage, doubling the power might give me the equivalent of a normal dipped beam??? I need to do something soon but I don't want to be melting anything that isn't already broken! |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by locky on Feb 4th, 2006, 5:49pm Wouldn't advise using 100w bulbs, could possibly overheat wiring or relay. Think there is a post somewhere about it, I will try and find, besides, it doesn't fix the inital problem. Where are you located, maybee someone local to you could come and help?? |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by locky on Feb 4th, 2006, 5:54pm This is just one of many on the subject. Seems to be a diffrence of opion on the subject. Up to you really ??? http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1124878582;start=6#6 |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by buffio on Feb 16th, 2006, 11:13pm Decided not to go for the 100W bulbs after all - just in case! I finally went back to Ford and they've tested everything from the switch to the bulbs, the conclusion being that as current leaves the fusebox OK and doesn't arrive at the headlight connectors the wire must be broken. Now when they put it that way it makes me wonder why I never checked that myself before :-[ but then I guess that's why they get the big bucks! Ironically when I pulled out of the garage the lights were working again for a good 15 miles before they died again. It's now booked in a week on Monday to have the wire replaced, which gives me some time to go along the length playing with it and hopefully locating and fixing it locally myself. Fingers crossed either way I'll be back to confirm the lights are working again soon! |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by Dave on Feb 17th, 2006, 9:05am Best of luck :) |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by scorpio_man on Feb 17th, 2006, 9:25am hi there sorry, haven't been following this, but have you removed the dim dip relay? the later cars (mine) don't have this now. see if that helps. hth |
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Title: End of the story...? Post by buffio on Mar 11th, 2006, 9:50pm Well, I took her to the FMD to replace the headlight wire and I also asked them to look at the wandering and sometimes violently shaky steering while it was in, and they said OK. I was working so I missed their call later that day. When I checked they'd left a voicemail "we're bringing your car to you now, the lights were working so we didn't do anything there, and when we looked it over and drove the car the steering seemed fine so we didn't need to fix anything there either". :o I couldn't believe what I was hearing but the car was back and they were closed by the time I got the message, I figured I'd just drive home and complain the next day... However, on getting in the car the lights did work and the steering was good too - not quite as firm as when I got the car but no shake. Well I've been driving it every day since and that was a good 2 weeks ago and no more problems! I guess she just wanted some attention and money spent on her - all part of the joys of owning a Scorp!!!!! ;) |
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Title: Re: Headlights just glow! Post by Dave on Mar 12th, 2006, 12:50pm ;D ::) |
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