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        General >> Problems >> Starter problems?
        
(Message started by: kskjon on Feb 11^th, 2006, 12:45pm)

Title: Starter problems?
Post by kskjon on Feb 11^th, 2006, 12:45pm

Sometimes, the Scorp fails to start, and instead it gives a single click from the engine bay. Then nothing. Try to turn the key again, click, nothing.

If I try this a couple of times, the clicking seems to dissappear. Will still not start though.

I've read through the fault finder, and it seems to point towards the starter. Is it safe to assume that my starter is failing? Or is it something else which may cause this?

The problem is VERY intermittent, and surfaces from time to time without prior warning.
It has always worked to leave the car for a while, and trying again later. How long I need to wait, also seems to vary.

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by ricky on Feb 11^th, 2006, 2:36pm

it would appear that the starter soiloid is failing but you need to check the voltage at the starter when you turn the key

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Highlander on Feb 11^th, 2006, 2:38pm

And check the engine earth strap

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Dave on Feb 11^th, 2006, 2:39pm

Check the earth strap from the engine is clean and tight too :)

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Dave on Feb 11^th, 2006, 2:39pm

Snap ;D

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by kskjon on Feb 11^th, 2006, 4:55pm

I'm guessing the earth strap is the ~5mm wide metal band located at the rear of the engine?

btw, where exactly is the starter (I found the pdf-document showing how to remove it)? I can't seem to find it when looking from above the engine. Will probably need to get underneath?

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Kjetil S on Mar 13^th, 2006, 7:49pm

Found something peculiar today. Had the problem starting again, and immediately checked all the relays. Found that no 16 (battery saver) was warm, while all other relays were ice cold. Pulled out the relay, and presto. It started.

Couple of hours later, had the same problem. Immediately pulled the relay again. Same result. Started on first attempt.

Does anyone have an explanation to why the battery saver can have anything to do with this at all?

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Paul B on Mar 13^th, 2006, 8:47pm

Now thats an interesting discovery.

Been having some very intermittent starting problems myself lately, as have some others.

I've suspected the battery saver relay too, because that 'feature' is obviously not working properly. Not had the time to experiment with mine yet though. But I might try the same thing myself... then get a new relay perhaps.

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Paul B on Mar 23^rd, 2006, 6:18am

Well.... I've had more starting problems >:(
And I've tried pulling the battery saver relay. But it didn't do much.
Mind you, in order to get that relay out, I first had to remove the taller one in front of it and, ever since, its starting characteristics have changed slightly (turns over longer before firing).
Checked back afterwards to see what that relay was.... Fuel Pump Relay.
I'm going to get a new one of those I think.

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Kjetil S on Mar 23^rd, 2006, 1:18pm

Have some updates myself.

Found that pulling the battery saver did help most of the time, but not always. Also found the other two relays (fuel pump and engine management) to be slightly warm after long drives, so as a precaution, I changed all three relays yesterday. Time will tell if it did the trick. If not, it is probably time to do a fuse box rebuild.

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Kjetil S on Mar 24^th, 2006, 12:19am

Hmm.. Got the non starter problem _again_ today, but this time it worked to switch to side lights only. (Scandinavian car/headlights come on automatically and not possible to completely turn off)

Tried to turn the key two or three times, nothing.
Changed to side lights only and it started on first attempt.

Any comments on what the fault may be? ???

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Simmo on Mar 24^th, 2006, 7:28am

If turning off the lights helps then it would surely seem to indicate that there isn't enough power getting through so the battery may well be suspect. These cars need a lot of power on start up.

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Kjetil S on Mar 24^th, 2006, 10:34am

The battery was swapped with a brand new a few months ago

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Simmo on Mar 24^th, 2006, 10:38am

Ok but was it big enough?. Go to this page and also look at the link about charging tests. http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/battery.htm.

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Paul B on Mar 24^th, 2006, 5:04pm

I've had almost a week of good staring now (6 days).
But this morning I got in the car to find it completely dead. In fact, I knew it was dead before I got in because the remote wouldn't work.
JumpStart Booster thing wouldn't start it either - it was well flat!
As I gave up, I looked at the clock... 10 to 8
Hmm... the real time was 8:02.
So it died just 10 minutes before I got there >:(

Getting a bit pee'd off with this now. Its totally unpredictable and unreliable :(

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Simmo on Mar 24^th, 2006, 5:26pm

Paul. Have you checked the ash tray light etc. Haven't there been posts about that causing a problem or even the glove box light?.Sounds like a constant overnight drain to flatten it to that extent doesn't it?. Go to 'search' at the top of the page. Put in ash tray,365 days, and check through the posts.Could help.

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Paul B on Mar 24^th, 2006, 8:16pm

Hmm... I eliminated the glove box light a long time ago (took the bulb out!) but have never looked into that ash tray light. In fact, I don't think I've ever opened the ash tray more than twice in 3 years of having the car! ::)
Couldn't tell you if the light works or not.

But I do remember a couple of peeps mentioning it shorting out in the past. I'll check that out tomorrow if I can.

Had a look around & under the auxilliary fusebox this afternoon. There were a few bits of leaves and stuff, but I don't think that dampness has been a problem.

AuxBox 1 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/PCBoulton/AuxBox1.jpg)

AuxBox 2 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/PCBoulton/AuxBox2.jpg)

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Simmo on Mar 24^th, 2006, 8:18pm

Paul. if you do the search you'll see that the cigar lighter is another cause of shorts.

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Paul B on Mar 24^th, 2006, 8:22pm

Yeah, did the search. I just need to have another look at the car.
The thing is, I've not been having any other electical 'gremlins'. Its just the battery drain.

But I'll have a look tomorrow.

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Paul B on Mar 25^th, 2006, 6:40pm

Right, ok, after yesterdays little performance, this is what happened today....

Overnight, the battery was trickle charged off the car.
I'd wiped all the crud out from under the battery/fusebox while it was off.

So, I had a battery ready to go, but when I connected it, I got none of those little sparks or bleep of the alarm that I usually get.
Undeterred, I cranked the old girl over. And that was it. It would only turn over. No firing at all. >:(
Checked all fuses and relays (as much as you can check a relay :-/) but all seemed fine. Still wouldn't start.

My old man turns up and asks what the trouble is.
I say, "All I did was unplug this" - pulling out the fuel pump relay yet again and pushing it back in - "And now it won't start... see?"
oops! It fired straight away :-[

I was stunned. I really do think there's a problem with that relay and have a new one on its way.

BTW... I looked in the ash tray at last! Didn't get any further than that yet, but the bulb's out!

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Kjetil S on Apr 4^th, 2006, 6:57pm

I've now swapped all three relays in that fusebox, and it was a clear improvement, but the problem isn't gone completely. Checked the battery voltage when the problem occured, and it read 11.9 with ignition on, 11.6 when trying to crank (obviously didn't) and 12.9 when running at 3000rpm.

Thought 13.8 would be a more normal voltage when charging, or am I mistaken?

Suggestions?

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by Snoopy on Apr 5^th, 2006, 7:23am

You are correct 13.8 is a more normal figure for charging with the engine running so it looks a bit on the low side!

Title: Re: Starter problems?
Post by fordcos on Apr 5^th, 2006, 8:40am

had this problem myself both fuse boxes were damp and the cooling fan relay at the rear of the drivers side headlamp was full of water. this switched the fans on in the middle of the night and killed the battery.