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        General >> Problems >> 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
        
(Message started by: trebor on Feb 14^th, 2006, 10:12pm)

Title: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by trebor on Feb 14^th, 2006, 10:12pm

1998 2.3 gear change stiff on 1st and 2nd, wines in first at low speed sounds like a double decker bus.
Low miles

any idears lads

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Geoff_W on Feb 14^th, 2006, 10:17pm

Welcome Trebor

Know the feeling, but my gear shift gets better when things warm up

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by nuttyscorp on Feb 14^th, 2006, 10:17pm

start with the cheapest option, try lubricating the gear linkage....wd40 or similar.

Russ

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by derekne on Feb 14^th, 2006, 10:20pm

Mine always does this too and it also knocks (thumps) as it goes in to.
However after 1 mile it seems fine.

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Geoff_W on Feb 14^th, 2006, 10:23pm

Looks like we have the makings of a theme here.

Russ you suggest oiling the linkage, does anybody know how accessible the linkage is?

Anybody else with this MT75 problem ?

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by tjp_lawson on Feb 14^th, 2006, 10:58pm

had the same on my 2.3 had the synchros replaced quite common on this box !

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Octavian_P on Feb 14^th, 2006, 11:14pm

I also have the 1-st / 2-nd "hard-change" but it's wheater dependent. As soon it gets warmer outside it goes beautifull. When it is cold it could be a verry stubborn gearboax. Also i observed that if i quickshif the gears ......it sound that the syncros are not doing their work right. Solution, when it will get warmer outside, i'll do an oil change, also the scorpio not been a f1 car, i'll let go of the quickshift habbit. By the way, it takes about 1-1.5 mile for it to "get going" normaly.

PS: i have 94.000 miles (~150.000 km) on the clock.

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by tjp_lawson on Feb 14^th, 2006, 11:18pm

incidentally i was purely being anal having synchros replaced! zoomy my mate who owns southwest transmissions said the box still had 50.000 left in it

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Octavian_P on Feb 14^th, 2006, 11:22pm

The problem with my MT75 box is that in almoust 10 years of it's existance nobody had changed it's oil. "It is not replaceble, just topable" !!! Everyoane sayes that over here. So i say that 10 year could badly affected the oil, wich has lost much of its properties.....wich brings trouble.

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by trebor on Feb 14^th, 2006, 11:57pm

Know what you mean with gear change crap for a mile or so.
Can live with this.
I had done ten miles or so at 70 mph.
Then i was in slow moving trafic tried to select 1st or 2nd wouldnt go in .
Selected 3 & 4 then first again, with a bit of brute force it went in.
if the milage is correct, it has done 35,000 the car does feel stiff.
steering switches seats etc, might have been stood for a while ?
Any idears what the wine is, like the old double decker buses would make (first gear only)

Thanks bob

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by kskjon on Feb 14^th, 2006, 11:57pm

Weird, the MT75 Overhaul Manual DOES mention an oil drain plug.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/manualtrans/MT75Overhaul.pdf

last page/drawing.

That should mean that the oil is replaceable?

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Octavian_P on Feb 15^th, 2006, 5:10pm

Yes the oil is replaceble, but if i go to a FMD-service they will tell me that the oil is for life >:(. So who belives FMD...i'm not >:(

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by leftofcentre on Feb 15^th, 2006, 6:44pm

Instead of "forcing" any gearbox that is stubborn, try lifting the clutch to take up an ounce of drive whilst attemting engaging gear.

This is what we do on stubborn coaches and trucks where i work.

The above rotates the shaft within the gearbox ever so slightly and subsequently lining up teath on gears etc.

Many folk "panic" when the gear shift simply wont slot-in and force the stick placing un neccessary strain on the linkages.

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by kskjon on Feb 15^th, 2006, 6:51pm

I stopped believing my FMD a long time ago. Every time they tried to fix something, either it was still broken, or 2-3 other things were now broken.

Edit: So now I'm following a norwegian saying:

"Selvgjort er velgjort"

Translates into something like

"Self done is well done"

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Octavian_P on Feb 15^th, 2006, 7:47pm

Another way to get it in 2nd when i'm in third, is to rev it a bit with the clutch presed and change gear....in this way the shaft's speeds are similar and so the syncromesh does it's job easyer. The same applyies form 2nd to first

PS: i never go to FMD for help....just for parts....imagine that they are the cheapest :P

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Geoff_W on Feb 27^th, 2006, 6:17pm

Took my 2 litre in to have a "new belt, thermostat and while you are at it drain of the gearbox oil and replace it".

No problems, lights are brighter, heater hotter and you guessed it 1st and 2nd gears slip in much easier.

If because of the cold weather you are finding that 1st and 2nd are clunky but get better as the box warms up then it is well worth getting the gear oil changed as one of the list of possibilities. ;D ;D ;D

I am very happy just at the moment 8)

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Octavian_P on Feb 27^th, 2006, 7:52pm

I'm preparing a list with what to do ;D Gearbox oil change included

PS: About the T-stat, was it hard do undo the 3 bolts, where they stuborn. I'm afraid of brakeing mine.

Cheers

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Geoff_W on Feb 27^th, 2006, 10:05pm

Take care with the thermostat bolts, they can and do seize up.

Actually thats why I took it to a local garage and let them get on with it. took an hour for them to do all three, of which the single most difficult was the serpantine belt which they reckon is a two person job.

The refreshing thing was there was none of the "this gearbox is sealed for life" rubbish, they wanted to sell me some oil and just got on with draining it!

Hope that helps ;)

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Octavian_P on Feb 27^th, 2006, 10:49pm

Yes that helps a lot, proably when i'll change or check the T-stat i will take it to my mechanic and let thim broke it ;D

Thanks

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by martin_rowe on Feb 28^th, 2006, 8:42am

make sure oil in box is of semi synthetic type, usually red in colour, ford started to use it in the early 5 speeds to combat poor cold shifts.

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Octavian_P on Feb 28^th, 2006, 6:37pm

Is there a fully - synthetic gearbox oil ? Does anybodey know a few good brands except "FORD Oil".

I have found this

http://lubricantadvisor.valvolineeurope.com/taal.asp

The interesting thing is:

Transmission, manual, MT 75 Capacity 1,2 liter
Use: Normal
Products:
DuraBlend ATF
Check/Change:
Check 15000 km or 12 months

and

Power steering Capacity 0,75 liter
Use: Normal
Products:
DuraBlend ATF
Check/Change:
Check 15000 km or 12 months

How could this be PS uses the same oil with Gearbox ???

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Octavian_P on Mar 3^rd, 2006, 4:40pm

Does anyone know if this will be good for my scorp

ARAL EP SYN SAE 75W-90 (SYNTETIC)

Does it have the right rating. At engine oil i'm good but gearbox ...i don't know and the scop manual sayes something la ESD.....ford oil...wich in general is rebranded something....

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by martin_rowe on Mar 3^rd, 2006, 7:52pm

75w-90 is fine for mt75, also no problem with the ATF either.

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Octavian_P on Mar 4^th, 2006, 3:15pm

Thank you. Soon i'll change the oil for PS and Gearbox....in 9 years they have never been changed :P

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Geoff_W on Mar 4^th, 2006, 5:59pm

Good move,

It really has made a difference with mine 8)

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by kskjon on Mar 4^th, 2006, 7:17pm

This may be a very stupid question, but where is the oil filler plug on the manual gearbox? I checked the pdf-file for manual gearbox overhaul, and found the oil drain plug, but can't seem to find where to put oil in.

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Octavian_P on Mar 5^th, 2006, 7:09am

Yes you are right, i'm also looking at the gearbox manual and beside the oil drain plug, can't find an oil filler plug ??? am i missing something ???

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by martin_rowe on Mar 5^th, 2006, 2:18pm

on the side of the box about half way up, think its 8mm allen key.

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by kskjon on Mar 5^th, 2006, 2:53pm

http://www.sd-datasupport.no/~kjetil/scorpio/MT75.png

This one?

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by kskjon on Mar 6^th, 2006, 10:26pm

Really sorry, but.. *bump*
Don't want to undo anything which should be left alone..
Can anyone confirm that this is the oil filler plug?

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by martin_rowe on Mar 7^th, 2006, 8:47am

thats the one

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by kskjon on Mar 7^th, 2006, 7:07pm

Thanks alot!

Now all I need is some warmer weather..

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Octavian_P on Mar 7^th, 2006, 9:24pm

on 03/07/06 at 19:07:13, kskjon wrote:

Thanks alot!

Now all I need is some warmer weather..

You can say that again.

PS: and by the way thanks kskjon for finding this out, it could had been a nasty situation with no oil in the gearbox ;D

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by kskjon on Mar 7^th, 2006, 9:57pm

on 03/07/06 at 21:24:09, Octavian_P wrote:

it could had been a nasty situation with no oil in the gearbox ;D

My thoughts exactly ;D

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by mazzy_j on Apr 12^th, 2006, 3:29pm

I'm hoping to change my gearbox oil tomorrow, but before i start would i be right in saying

a) The oil has to be to the spec 75W-90? I'm not 100% what all the letters and number mean so would Silkolene Silktran SYN 5 - Fully Synthetic 75/90 Gearbox Oil be up to the job?

Same as here: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Silkolene-SYN5-75-90-Fully-Synthetic-Gearbox-Oil_W0QQitemZ8039016934QQcategoryZ43120QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

b) I will need 1.2L of the stuff

Thanks,

Matt

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by mazzy_j on Apr 13^th, 2006, 9:44am

Well, i went down to Ford's yesterday and asked for the right gearbox oil for my car, only problem was the chap pulled up about 200 different types of gearbox oil, the one he said was 'probably' for my car was called WSD M2C200-C MT75. Just looked up the gearbox details on ETIS and it says i should use ESDM-2C186-A spec oil. I was also told by an 'experianced' Ford technician that i shouldn't use 75W-90 oil as it too thick for that gearbox so now i'm a bit confused as to what to use ???

Matt

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Geoff_W on Apr 13^th, 2006, 10:25am

MT75 manual box fitted to our Scorps is pretty standard across bigger Ford RWD range(and 5 speed Transit).

Whatever Oil you have in the box at the moment is only getting thinner with time so you would probably not be at a disadvantage using the ESDM-2C186-A as that is also recommended on the spec PDF and is the spec for manual cougars, mondeos, galaxies, transits and scorpios, chances are it may have been superceded and any motor factor should be able to cross check that.

The MT75 in the WSD M2C200-C MT75 oil that you were told about is probably a fair clue that it is made for the purpose and may have replaced 2C186-A.

Alternatively if you have a local branch or Wilcos

http://www.motosave.co.uk/html/gear___transmssion_oils.html

What did the 'experienced' Ford technician say that he uses?

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by mazzy_j on Apr 13^th, 2006, 10:43am

Thanks, I stumbled across that site whilst 'googling' for more info about MT75 oil yesterday and i saw that there was an oil specifically meant for the MT75 gearbox, which was what got me thinking. The technician basically said i should use the ESDM-2C186-A stuff (if not available anymore then get Fords to double check that the WSD M2C200-C MT75 oil is definately the right one) and that it should be red in colour. I suppose anything has to be better than whats in there :)

Matt

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Geoff_W on Apr 13^th, 2006, 11:41am

Matt,

Do not get sidetracked with a colour thing, it is the spec that is important and if it has changed you may find that it now has polka dots. Really does not matter as long as it meets the MT75 spec and performance standard and improves your gear shift.

Geoff

Geoff

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by geraghtyg on Apr 13^th, 2006, 1:13pm

I got my oil changed recently by a friend who is head mechanic in a local Dublin Bus garage. Anyway, he changed the oil and filter and the oil he used is the same oil used for gearboxes in double decker buses. Seems to be fine on mine. ANd it is the same oil he has been using on all his past cars - 5 & 7 Series BMW's and Lexus 400. Both with well over 200,000miles on the clock.

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by mazzy_j on Apr 16^th, 2006, 8:41pm

I ended up getting the 2C186-A oil in the end, nice easy job (with aid of some lifting ramps ;)), took out just over a litre of rather grubby looking oil and replaced with 1,2 l of fresh stuff. And the result... It has certainly improved the shift, it now doesn't try and 'snatch' the gearstick going from 2nd to 3rd and it just generally feels slicker than before.

Hopefully good for another 215,000 miles or so ;D

Matt

Title: Re: 2.3 Gear change stiff on 1st & 2nd
Post by Kjetil S on Apr 19^th, 2006, 10:25pm

Got around changing the oil myself today. Gearchanges seems to have improved somewhat, but it still isn't perfect. Will probably recheck for air in the clutch and do another gear oil change when the current oil has settled, to remove any old residue. Hopefully that will do the trick.