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        General >> Problems >> Cylinder Head - tale of woe
        
(Message started by: tintin on Feb 16^th, 2006, 8:07am)

Title: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by tintin on Feb 16^th, 2006, 8:07am

I have just bought an Ultima Cosworth 1995 for £1400, 90k on the clock, FSH, ran fine, only issue was the CD changer missing from the boot. Drove it up from Manchester to Edinburgh without problem. After a week, i hit my first traffic jam, steam started coming out of the engine bay, temp guage hadnt risen. I pulled over and water coming out of the engine somewhere. AA came out, it was cooled off, filled her up, no leak so i drove it home no problems. When i got home the radiator was stone cold.

Had a ford man look at it, and he says its coming from the n/s cylinder head he thinks, but cannot see without stripping everything off. Only leaks when system is pressurised. My issue is what to do now. I could radweld it and sell it on (obviously what the garage who sold it to me has done, immoral but i cant afford to lose £1400), fix it (about £800?) or sell it for parts. I dont know if it will be the CH gasket or a crack in the head, plus dont know what other damage there may be associated with this. PS the car still drives great, oil has no water in it.

Any advice would be much appreciated, as you may imagine i am more than a little angry at the garage but i guess you takes your chances.....angry at myself for being taken in too..... :-[

Title: Re: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by Dave on Feb 16^th, 2006, 9:04am

Hi there,

welcome to the site!

Sorry to hear you have had a problem so soon :-/

A few questions spring quickly to my mind......

Does the temperature gauge work i.e. start off at the bottom and rise up in a couple of miles?

You sure the coolant rad is cold? There is more than 1 radiator on the Cosworth.

My 24v had a bad water leak when picked up. There is a pipe that runs between the cylinder heads that goes - it may be this pipe that is leaking. Mine absolutely chucked it out sometimes when standing but ran for 30 miles on the motorway and lost very little.

Have a look at these pages for info:

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/leaks

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/coolingmanl.htm

Can you start it up in the daylight and have a good poke around with a torch?

Hope this helps :)

PS Do you live in Manchester or Edinburgh?

Title: Re: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by howiedintheplace on Feb 16^th, 2006, 9:12am

Check the pipe that goes under the passenger side head as said above & the pipe work in the V of the engine between the cylinder heads.

Title: Re: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by tintin on Feb 16^th, 2006, 10:36am

wow, love this forum and the quick responses. thanks.

the temp guage starts at bottom and goes up to 1/2 way and stays there (all the way up from Manchester). when the steam started, the guage was still reading 1/2 way. the rad that was cold was the main one across the front of the engine bay (excuse my lack of knowledge, im used to minis and triumph herald rebuilds).

the guy who works at ford (friend of a friend) said it was definately coming from half way along the outside of the n/s engine, that he couldnt see behind the (manifold?) and would need to strip it all down. his guess was gasket or crack in head, as he didnt think there was anything behind the manifold except cylinder head.....the pipe running under the CH gives me a glimmer of hope, but i guess its a strip down and repair job anyway which is 6hours?

the car was up on a lift with a ford expert under it, so i guess if he cant see where its coming from, me and a torch wont get any further....

i live in edinburgh

many thanks for the help again, i do love the car and want to repair it, but you know what its like when you buy a 2nd hand car, you are expecting the worst!!

on a side issue, i forgot to mention the battery light stays on for 3-5 minutes after start up, then goes off and stays off. back on next journey. is this just a new battery needed? electrics all work (except the drivers heated seat, ha ha) and dont do anything silly, except the central locking sometimes doesnt work, have to use the key (key fob?)

Title: Re: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by Dave on Feb 16^th, 2006, 10:51am

Shame, if you had livind in Manchester I could have come round and scratched my chin and tried to look knowledgeable ;D

I am not a car expert sadly but if you had a crack in the head wouldn't it throw its water out all the time? And pretty quickly too?

The chap that looked at your car is right, there isn't anything up there as far as I know, BUT the thermostat is in that area, hold on....

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1139575083;start=

Look at this thread, 3rd post down. That there is the thermostat, right next to the head, right where the exhaust manifold goes. The pipe that you can see disappearing up is the one that can leak, the one heading left also went on my car. £30 the pair from Ford.

You can replace these by taking the inlet manifolds (the silver gubbins) off. I did this the other day in a couple of hours or so. You will need replacement gaskets and a couple of 0 rings from Ford (have the part numbers if you want them). It isn't a major stripdown if this is the problem. I do know that Ford quoted 6 hours labour to strip down and replace the inlet manifolds and injector seals for me, book time.

I do know what its like, my car had a few "characteristics" when bought but *touch wood* its providing plenty of grins now :)

Battery light, could be a loose connection or gummed up earth wire that sorts itself out as the car/engine/metal warms up. Check any earth points you can see (there are 2 just near the battery - but not actually in the battery compartment).

If the keyfob sometimes works and sometimes doesn't have a look at this, mine did this recently too but been fine since a good clean!

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/remote_repair.htm

Cheers :)

Well done for not letting it overheat - some people would have carried on regardless then damage would have been inevitable.

Title: Re: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by Dave on Feb 16^th, 2006, 11:09am

By the way there is also a multiplug beneath the battery shelf - check that is clean and tight or that will put the light on!

Title: Re: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by mr._floppy on Feb 16^th, 2006, 11:28am

Would a cylinder compression test confirm a leaky head gasket ?

shame to ditch the car if it's only a hose or rad problem.

Title: Re: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by Highlander on Feb 16^th, 2006, 12:02pm

Where abouts in Edinburgh are you? im in Broxburn ;D

Title: Re: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by Thunderchild on Feb 16^th, 2006, 12:49pm

And I'm in South Queensferry, I'm sure that between us we can manage to find out what's happening.

Thunderchild

Title: Re: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by tintin on Feb 16^th, 2006, 2:51pm

im east side, in northfield, im close to tears with the offers of help, thanks guys, im free this weekend if either of you would come take a look for me. my email address is sam.mcfarlane@rbs.co.uk

Title: Re: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by Highlander on Feb 16^th, 2006, 4:03pm

Keyfob might need the contacts cleaned or the battery replaced.

I might manage over late Sunday but not sure yet

Title: Re: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by Thunderchild on Feb 16^th, 2006, 10:17pm

Hi TinTin, I've pm'd you

Thunderchild

Title: Re: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by tintin on Feb 20^th, 2006, 10:44am

ok, wonderful help from everyone (especially Thunderchild!!), have decided to get the inlet manifold off and take a look at the hose running down the V, does anyone know how i get my hands on the part number for this hose? the help pages have great pics of it, but no part no.s

Title: Re: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by Wafoo on Feb 20^th, 2006, 4:20pm

I bought one from Ford main dealer for £40,it's on their computer under emission control stuff,easy enougth to find.

Title: Re: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by Simmo on Feb 20^th, 2006, 6:54pm

If Ford can't find it ask Baz!!. He'll tell em how to!!.

Title: Re: Cylinder Head - tale of woe
Post by Dave on Feb 21^st, 2006, 11:08am

sorry mate didn't see this earlier, will check my numbers when I get home, I think I replaced that hose - best to check though! When I went to get it at Ford I was mumbling about it, not sure what I wanted but the parts guy printed off a picture and I pointed them out on that!