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        General >> Problems >> Starting
        
(Message started by: Celesa on Mar 4^th, 2006, 1:42pm)

Title: Starting
Post by Celesa on Mar 4^th, 2006, 1:42pm

Hello everyone

I am all new to this scorpio thing (New owner), about two days ago I purchased a 96 2.0 16v scorpio. The engine starts every first time and I have also took it a 140miles journey without experiencing any problem.

The next day I bought a new battery (570CCA) as I feel the one in the car is too underrated (470 CCA). So I took the old battery out and fitted a new one in, reconnected all the cables and try starting the engine (The engine cranks and all electrics works) but it just wouldn't start no matter how many times I try.

I checked the fault finder page, I am sure all cables are reconnected, key was out of the ignition when I remove / reinstall the battery.

There is also another suggestion from the page: No voltage to INJectors with ignition turned on? - faulty fuel pump relay, replace

How do I check is there any voltage to injectors with ignition turned on? (I mean how do I verify this?)
Also how do I check is the fuel pump reply faulty??

Thanks a lot
Cel

Title: Re: Starting
Post by Simmo on Mar 4^th, 2006, 1:49pm

Celesa. If the car was ok before the chances are that the fault is due to the battery change. You need to re-check the battery connections as the negative terminal has on some cars three cables (This can vary) and one of them can slip down behind the battery and get missed on re-connection. The result is exactly as you describe. I'm afraid I cannot answer the rest of your query but I'm sure someone will be along who can. Good luck. There is another possibility. Is the new battery fully charged as these cars require a lot of power on start up. Have you tried using the 'old' battery as presumably it was ok before you changed it?.

Title: Re: Starting
Post by Highlander on Mar 4^th, 2006, 2:33pm

Fuel cut off switch in the boot?

Title: Re: Starting
Post by Octavian_P on Mar 4^th, 2006, 3:23pm

Hello the new battery could have less charge (been sitting in a store shelf). Also check that the connections are fitted corectly, and as Simmo said there could be a nippy tinny black cable that you could have passed and didn't connect it

Title: Re: Starting
Post by Celesa on Mar 6^th, 2006, 7:20pm

Hello again everyone.

I took out the new battery today and tried fitting the old one. I reconnected all cables and the car still wouldn't start.
This eleminates the possiblity that the new battery is faulty and that I have missed any negative/positive cables.
*There are 6 cables connected to the battery 3 on negative and 3 on positive.
http://http:/www.domorewithcel.com/images/DSC00911.JPG

I also checked the fuel switch and it can't be pressed down.

Now the only things left to do is perhaps the fuel pump relay? As explained earlier, it kinds of sounds like there isn't any fuel pump into the engine (So it can't start). ???

I have contacted my local garage and he is coming over this thursday and have it recovered and checked out.

I have another question, I spotted the following cable:
http://http:/www.domorewithcel.com/images/DSC00906.JPG
Anyone know what is it used for? Is it meant to be disconnected?

Title: Re: Starting
Post by Dave on Mar 7^th, 2006, 9:57am

I think that cable goes to the horn that is just next to it. This horn is for the alarm (behind the battery if I am reading the pic correctly) and the wire being disconnected will mean that the alarm will technically work, it just will not sound the horn when going off. It won't prevent the car starting.

EDIT: Was the ignition OFF when you changed the battery? Have you tried disconnecting the new battery for about 10 minutes then try again?

EDIT 2: There are several earth points and connections around the battery area, are all these clean and dry?

Title: Re: Starting
Post by wudz on Mar 7^th, 2006, 12:33pm

Just a quikie, smell the exhaust for petrol fumes when you crank this may answer your injector doubt..But I think you will find it will be something you have disturbed if all was well before the change.

Good luck

John

Title: Re: Starting
Post by JBjorling on Mar 8^th, 2006, 12:59pm

I would still check the connections to the battery.

Are they clean, undamaged and without corrosion? Sometimes you see a lot of dirt and grease on the copper or the connection plate.

When it's on the old battery it's fine because the actual connection is grease-free, but when you remove the connections you also move around the grease and dirt.

If you have a voltmeter check the voltage on the new battery. It should be around 13V, and definetely not under 12V.

Clean the connectors (on the cables in the engine-bay) with a copper or metal brush. Make sure you reveal all the copper or metal on the connectors. If the copper on the cable looks corroded going in to the connector-plate you have to replace the connector-plate, strip out a new piece of copper from the cable and cut away the corroded part, then refit a new connector-plate.

By now the battery-terminals might have gotten a bit of a surface as well so use the metal-brush on these terminals as well, but be careful because you can easily wear down the terminals.

Now refit all connectors to the battery-terminals, once that is done you should apply battery-terminal-fat which keeps unwanted greese out and keeps the connectors from corroding.

Also clean the battery, otherwise you might get a leak-current between the terminals which could drain the battery.

That is where I would start. With the battery gone and the whole cleaning-procedure you probably have resetted the computer (I think it works that way on Scorpio) so if it was a problem due to strange parameters still in computer-register those should be gone aswell.

Title: Re: Starting
Post by Celesa on Mar 9^th, 2006, 4:17pm

Hello everyone, just got a call from the garage, they say the immobliser is preventing the engine from starting and said they need the red key. But I dont have the red key!!

They said they will probably need to send it down to Ford Dealer and it might be expensive to fix. :/

Anyone know how much around it will cost?

Title: Re: Starting
Post by Dave on Mar 9^th, 2006, 9:08pm

Have a look at this post here for how to get a new red key:

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1131407062;start=1#1

The red LED in the centre of the dashboard should flash an error code if the immobiliser is at fault, codes are here:

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/pats.htm

Hope this helps :)

Title: Re: Starting
Post by Celesa on Mar 10^th, 2006, 5:03pm

Hello

I do remember when I tried to start the engine, the led constanly flashed. The car is with the local garage now and they are contacting local Ford dealer to see how much it cost to have it reprogrammed.

Thanks a lot guys!

Title: Re: Starting
Post by Simmo on Mar 10^th, 2006, 5:16pm

Have you read the link above re the codes. What code is it flashing? Have you got another key to try as is suggested in the link. You need to try these options but most important what is the 'flashing code'.

Title: Re: Starting
Post by Jim on Mar 10^th, 2006, 9:19pm

I did much the same thing when I first got my Scorpio. Mine didn't have a battery cover and during battery change I must have disturbed the fuse box. The fault was exactly the same. Showed a pats error, I think it was a six flash code. Took a new fuse box from FMD to correct. I would rebuild the fuse box now using info provided on this site.