Ford Scorpio Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> Problems >> Ticking Noise!
        
(Message started by: DJWerkz on Mar 7^th, 2006, 1:44pm)

Title: Ticking Noise!
Post by DJWerkz on Mar 7^th, 2006, 1:44pm

Since doing the engine replacement in my Cosworth we've done a number of things to ensure that the replacement engine was adequately cleaned.

1..We ran new 5W-30 engine oil for 500 miles then used the Forte engine cleaner for a designated period before emptying.

2. Re-filled car with 5W-30 engine oil and also used the Forte 'Top End Conditioner' product which is supposed to ensure quiet hydraulic valves.

However, despite all this under medium to hard acceleration I get what can only be described as a ticking noise, this noise increases in speed in relation to the engine speed.

I have listened to the engine with the bonnet up and had someone press the accelerator pedal up to different RPM's but can not detect this noise in the engine bay.

I have also driven the car under hard acceleration with the window open and tried to listen to the engine and if anything, the engine sounds really sweet.

I only seem to hear this problem inside the car when driving along.

I wonder if it is really anything to do with the valves at all but maybe bad injectors?

In fact, it's almost as if when driving this noise seems to come from under the drivers dash area (I have no balck felt sound proofing at the moment under the drivers dash).

Anyone else come across this problem before?

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by Dave on Mar 7^th, 2006, 1:50pm

I had this in a car once (not a Scorpio) and it turned out to be a loose screw on the dashboard! Sounded like someone quite wrong with the engine top end at first though, was very concerned ::)

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by DJWerkz on Mar 7^th, 2006, 1:58pm

Hmmm,...not really convinced with that theory, but interesting input at least ;)

I really need the car checked over by someone, but finding a good specialist locally is near impossible it seems (only want a Scorpio Cosworth specialist).

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by Dave on Mar 7^th, 2006, 2:00pm

Fair enough, also check the alternator and associated belts as they can make some odd noises if something isn't right.

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by Highlander on Mar 7^th, 2006, 4:13pm

broken cat maybe? loose shields?

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by kskjon on Mar 7^th, 2006, 9:33pm

Gearbox?

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by Geoff_W on Mar 7^th, 2006, 10:01pm

Once upon a time that would have been the speedo drive needing a little oil, but sadly not on the scorp ???

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by JBjorling on Mar 8^th, 2006, 12:46pm

How loud is the ticking?

It sure sounds like the valve-lifters but if you can't hear it in the engine bay when outside of car I wonder.

It could still be the lifters since sounds travel easier through metal than through air. It might just be that the noise reproduces easier to the compartment (where you can hear it because it is quiet and nice) than the engine bay where you have a lot of noises at the same time.

But it sounds like a metallic ticking? I think that maybe you threw a wire near speaker-wires while you replaced the engine so now you hear the rpm through the stereo (it has happened to me).

This is what I would do:
0. Empty the car completely! No plastic bags, screwdrivers, groceries or anything is allowed in the car while searching for a noise like this (since you only hear it inside the car). If you have an aftermarket stereo I would remove the head unit for this aswell, since they often are a bit loose.

1. Remove all trims and plastic from the dashboard and take the car for a spin (to ensure that the noise doesn't come from inside the car). Now, try to pinpoint the sound.

2. Check all trim-details to see that all is fitted properly and undamaged. Put the dash-trim back on and tighten the screws properly.

If you haven't been able to pinpoint the sound now, I think it's coming from outside the car (engine-bay etc.).

Do the noise increase with the rpm or with the speed? If it is with speed, you can begin investegating other issues than the engine itself.

If it is only with the rpm there is something with your new engine. And I don't think it is the chain since it should definetely be heard outside the car.

A last note: All these engine-cleaning products everyone use is not a good problem-solution. The only correct way to fix ticking lifters and injector is to take it apart and clean it yourself or get new parts.

You can't fix ticking injector by stuffing the engine oil with additives. Maybe some dirt or residue will come off but more likely is that you add dirt and residue.

The only good engine cleaning procedure I've heard of is Bilstein's Engine Flush, and then you hook up the engine to a big pump which pumps around a cleaning-fluid at some temperature. Kind of like a high-preassure wash for the engine's inside.

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by DJWerkz on Mar 8^th, 2006, 3:25pm

on 03/08/06 at 12:46:19, JBjorling wrote:

How loud is the ticking?

Ticking is audible over engine noise when driving but not over-powering.

on 03/08/06 at 12:46:19, JBjorling wrote:

But it sounds like a metallic ticking?

Yes, but it also sounds similar to the clicking of electronic relays or bad injectors. It is a rapid clicking noise.

on 03/08/06 at 12:46:19, JBjorling wrote:

I think that maybe you threw a wire near speaker-wires while you replaced the engine so now you hear the rpm through the stereo (it has happened to me).

No, checked this ;)

on 03/08/06 at 12:46:19, JBjorling wrote:

This is what I would do:
0. Empty the car completely! No plastic bags, screwdrivers, groceries or anything is allowed in the car while searching for a noise like this (since you only hear it inside the car). If you have an aftermarket stereo I would remove the head unit for this aswell, since they often are a bit loose.

1. Remove all trims and plastic from the dashboard and take the car for a spin (to ensure that the noise doesn't come from inside the car). Now, try to pinpoint the sound.

2. Check all trim-details to see that all is fitted properly and undamaged. Put the dash-trim back on and tighten the screws properly.

If you haven't been able to pinpoint the sound now, I think it's coming from outside the car (engine-bay etc.).

Not necessary to do all this, as we are confident the sound is coming from engine bay/outside the car.

on 03/08/06 at 12:46:19, JBjorling wrote:

Do the noise increase with the rpm or with the speed? If it is with speed, you can begin investegating other issues than the engine itself.

Yes, increases with speed, but once cruising in 4th gear can hardly hear the noise at all.

I also wondered if it could be something to do with the exhaust, but as I always say when investigating issues with my car, I am not able to climb around over or under it as I'm disabled!

This fault will be investigated over time in more detail when I can get someone to do it for me, but I was just checking to see if anyone else had encountered a similar problem.

Of course, you can rest assured I will keep you all updated as to what the problem was and how it was cured ;)

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by leftofcentre on Mar 8^th, 2006, 6:49pm

Just out of interest, how come the engine change?

From what to Cosworth? :-/

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by Paul B on Mar 8^th, 2006, 6:52pm

I'm just going to throw something in here. Not saying this is the problem at all, but you never know.
Its a bit odd, but it happened to me on an old Cortina...
The ticking I had was eventually traced to the dipstick. ??? "How?" I hear you ask. Well, the stop of the dipstick had kind of broken. That meant the stick was going too far down in the tube... which also resulted in the end of the dipstick graudually being chopped off down in the engine. OOPS! :-[

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by DJWerkz on Mar 8^th, 2006, 7:12pm

on 03/08/06 at 18:49:47, leftofcentre wrote:

Just out of interest, how come the engine change?

From what to Cosworth? :-/

Well to keep it very brief and not to go over the numerous other posts that cover this very issue, the car had the timing chains replaced by a local garage back in February 2004, job was so bad that they wrekced the engine.

Took the garage to Court and after 18 months they agreed to settle out of Court by supplying a second hand replacement engine.

Engine was fitted over the autumn/winter period 2005 together with the replacement of many other items the garage lost/broke!!

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by leftofcentre on Mar 8^th, 2006, 7:18pm

interesting.
keeping it brief + apologies if we are going over old ground, but what specifically did they do wrong to wreck the engine.

Was considering this very job all by myself.

If a garage complete with tools/lifting equip + time cant do, not much hope for me in my home garage huh!

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by DJWerkz on Mar 8^th, 2006, 7:41pm

Removed cam shafts from left cylinder head during job and over-tightened them on re-fit so that as soon as the car was run the cam fixing bolts were ripped out of their threads.

This then shattered one of the new chain guides sending bits into the engine, not to mention wrecking the left cylinder head and all components.

They also had no idea what they were doing with this car, to them it was just another 'Granada'!

Coolant pipe between the heads was not fixed back, in fact they didn't even realise there was one there, forgot to attach other coolant pipes properly, sold me a 12v rad for the price of a 24v, cut back two of the coolant pipes running from the header tank and hid underneath because there was no-where to attach them to on the 12v rad,...shall I go on???

HowieD and STN would be able to recount the nightmare that this turned into, STN was involved as my professional expert and HowieD supplied alot of the broken/missing parts.

If you are mechanically apt I would say it's not a difficult task to do, you just need to take your time, have the right tools and follow the instructions in the workshop manual and additional advice provided on here. To be honest, you might be far better off doing it yourself ;)

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by leftofcentre on Mar 8^th, 2006, 8:04pm

oh right. Eek!

Wouldnt have thought removal of camshaft was neccessary ?

Anyhow thanks for interesting reprt.

Now back to your (almost hijacked ;) ) thread :)

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by Thunderchild on Mar 8^th, 2006, 9:42pm

Now I'll get shouted down for this but you are describing "pinking" and I would go on to suggest that except the management system takes care of it. As an experiment try using higher octane fuel like Shell Optimax... Snoopy swears by it anyway. If it is pinking then it should either be reduced or cured.

HTH

Thunderchild

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by DJWerkz on Mar 8^th, 2006, 9:52pm

I only use Shell Optimax! ;)

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by bootiful-scorpios on Mar 8^th, 2006, 9:58pm

well glad u won the court case , wot garage was it ?

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by DJWerkz on Mar 9^th, 2006, 10:42am

They settled out of Court, and I would rather not slag off in public which garage it was as I feel this is rather unprofessional, but it was located in Bletchley, Milton Keynes. If you use garages in this area PM me and I will give you an idea. ;)

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by martin_rowe on Mar 9^th, 2006, 1:16pm

Hi Craig
my money is on exhaust manifold gasket / cracked manifold, you get ticking on med / hard acceleration, usually the manifold to head gasket. sorry.

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by DJWerkz on Mar 9^th, 2006, 1:32pm

Great input Martin, was wondering about the whole exhaust issue myself as it does seem as almost under lower-medium acceleration that there is a 'phutt-phutt' sound as you would expect from a cracked exhaust manifold. When you accelerate harder it increases to what I previously described as a rapid 'ticking' sound.

...you know how difficult it is to explain these weird noises on these forums ;)

Friend of mine know's a guy at Northampton Motor Sport's who races a vehicle with the Cosworth engine, going to see if he can put it on his rolling road and run some tests to be sure ;)

Title: Re: Ticking Noise!
Post by martin_rowe on Mar 9^th, 2006, 7:33pm

try a length of tube, one end in your ear & poke the other end around the manifolds, may have to remove the heat shields first, or at idle a little squirt of wd 40 can trace it, or better monitor pre cat lambda voltage, at idle it may be sucking in air not blowing out.