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        General >> Problems >> IS THIS A JOKE!!?
        
(Message started by: sector-9 on Apr 15^th, 2006, 9:53pm)

Title: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by sector-9 on Apr 15^th, 2006, 9:53pm

Thought I'd spend this weekend doing the various little jobs my Scorpio needs. Nothing too difficult, replace oil & filter, replace fuel filter, replace radiator fans and fit new horns.

Okay, first off, removed and replaced fuel filter. No problems there but obviously it hasn't been done for a long time as there are all sorts of bits floating around (worryingly these include specks of rust). Unfortunately you can't remove the centre bolt without unbolting the oil separator. Also added some injector cleaner directly into the new filter, took several minutes priming to fill the new filter and expel the air. Whilst I'm there I'll check the engine loom multiplugs. Bottom one seems to have water in it and pins on both of them don't look very clean so I use contact cleaner on both to get the pins nice and shiny.

Second job, add some engine flush to the existing oil. All done, engine idled for about 10 minutes to circulate then turned off. Next thing is to remove the engine fans whilst I wait for the oil to cool a little. Try to unbolt fan shroud and find that a couple of the bolts are just spinning round instead of being held still in the radiator. Oh well, the radiator will just have to come out as well. Tried removing bottom hose and intercooler feed pipe but both screw clips have seized and the screwdriver just chewed up the heads. No problem, I'll disconnect the hoses at the other ends. Half an hour of further dismantling I can get to the other ends and disconnect them! Now to unbolt the radiator - b****r, the RH mounting bolt has sheared off. Also the plastic RH top mounting has broken so it's got to be repaired somehow as only the left hand side of the radiator is now supported. Erm, still can't remove radiator because there are oil pipes in the way. Okay, unbolt and move the power steering fluid cooler and oil cooler out the way. Finally get the radiator off and manage to replace the fan shroud. By now it's getting dark so I leave it until the morning after.

Okay, first job of the day is drill out the remains of the sheared bolt. Drill a 1mm hole in the centre of the bolt, bit snaps. Try to drill a 2mm hole in the centre, that bit snaps too. Try ANOTHER 2mm bit. This time I can drill deep into the broken shank. Keep working my way up in size until I've used the largest bit and there is very little of the shank left in the hole. Another 10 minutes with a punch and hammer and I've cleared the hole so I find two equivalent bolts in the shed and refit the radiator. Everything seems to go back without difficulty though I do need to get some new screw clips for the hoses, but I'll do that later.

Next job is to drain the old oil/engine flush as I've now fitted the new oil filter (great big thing). Have a look at the PDF for engine dismantling so I can work out which one of the several bolts on the bottom is the drain plug. According to the manual it is the two allen plugs at either side of the sump. Get an allen key from the shed and try undoing one. Won't move so I put an extension bar on it and it then rounds off the plug head! Try on the other plug and allen key snaps. Remembered I have set of 3/8in drive allen bits so I get the right sized one and put it on my ratchet. Try unscrewing that plug and can feel that it too is starting to round off so I stop. Quite obviously they're made out of cheese or have been done up far too tightly before.

Decide that an impact wrench would probably be able to undo the plugs easily and I already have a compressor so off I go to Machine Mart to buy an air impact wrench and suitable adaptor for my quick-release hose. Also buy a 1/2in drive set of allen bits and new screw clips. Get home and find that the adaptor doesn't fit my hose so I take it and the hose back to the shop (another 16 mile drive in my parent's car). "Sorry sir, we don't do that type of fitting. We know somewhere that does but they don't open until Tuesday." $%@@#!!! In the end I decide to cut my existing hose in half and buy a screw on nozzle to push fit into the hose. Finally get the impact wrench connected to the compressor and running. Crawl back underneath the Scorpio armed with impact wrench and new allen bit. It immediately rounds off both plugs with no hope of ever unscrewing them again. By this point I'm ready to cry. :'(

In desperation I decide to try undoing one of the other bolts and hope I can get oil out that way. I pick the nice big plug with a 12mm allen head and it unscrews easily with the wrench. Guess what? Oil gushes out into the container. I look at this plug and see that it has a rubber O-ring seal and a magnetic tip - this is the real drain plug - the others aren't!!! >:( It's not the first time the Ford PDF manuals have been wrong.

Last job of all, remove the old horns (one not working) and fit new ones. New horns are twin terminal but old ones are single so I make up two short leads to attach one terminal of each to earth. Horns go on relatively easily. Finally refilled oil and cooling system and started the engine.

Pleased to report no leaks so far and the engine does seem a little quieter than it did. Unfortunately the RH fan still does not run, which means that neither fan runs at low speed. Check with multimeter and discover that RH fan is only receiving about 8V so there is obviously a problem with the loom somewhere. Sod it, that can wait until tomorrow!

Darren

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by jonnycab on Apr 15^th, 2006, 10:07pm

After reading this I could literally feel your frustration. It reminded me of Michael Douglass in the film 'Falling Down'.....Have a nice day!.....aaarrgghhhh!!!!!

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by Danny_R on Apr 16^th, 2006, 4:34am

Hey Darren,

I too feel your frustration mate. I thought only that kind of stuff could happen to me. Reminds me of the time I spent a day washing and polishing my scorp. I had that car gleaming like a mirror, I'd just finished and was reeling the hose pipe back up when a heard a loud thud. I turn around to look at the car. It had bird C*** from the center of the roof all the way down the bonnet and in between the slats in the grill. I could of cried man!!!

Chin up mate

Danny_R

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by cossie_al on Apr 16^th, 2006, 8:29am

Ahh yes!
these are familiar sets of circumstances.
So its not only me who falls victim to the law of the s o d

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by Paul B on Apr 16^th, 2006, 8:40am

on 04/16/06 at 04:34:46, Danny_R wrote:

I thought only that kind of stuff could happen to me.

on 04/16/06 at 08:29:48, cossie_al wrote:

So its not only me who falls victim to the law of the s o d

Ohhhh no. You're certainly NOT the only ones. This type of catalogue of disasters is ususlly my kinda luck too!

Hats off to you though Darren... for not taking a hammer to the car! >:(
;)

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by mr._floppy on Apr 16^th, 2006, 2:34pm

Oh yes, we've all been there : " a five minute job, back in time for Antiques Roadshow and Corrie " quoth he, No Chance :-[

It would help if metal of a superior ( i.e. harder ) quality was used for nuts and bolts, self-tappers and keyheads and less use of Torx, Spline and allen threadheads ( just what is the point of the Torx head on the wishbone bottom balljoint as opposed to a hex nut ? cost me £7 for the correct Torx key, Grrrrr !!!!! >:() )

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by stan1746 on Apr 16^th, 2006, 5:26pm

i know what it feels like just done a cluch change on a ultima estate never againe

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by monghad on Apr 16^th, 2006, 6:33pm

:o :o Your patience is inspiring to say the least.

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by trogg on Apr 16^th, 2006, 8:18pm

you have my sympathy. i've got my service to do! better order some tools to replace the broken ones. oh well.

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by sector-9 on Apr 16^th, 2006, 8:55pm

Well I finally got both cooling fans to run, and at both speeds. Never did find the exact cause of the voltage drop from 12V down to about 8V at the terminal of fan 1 but I don't care - I found roughly where in the loom the fault would be then cut both ends off the orange/yellow wire either side and ran a new lead. Job done, now have full battery voltage at the fan terminal and that was all I was missing!

One last job to do: replace the gearbox switch so the reversing light works - should only be a 10 minute job... ;)

Darren

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by cossie_al on Apr 16^th, 2006, 9:05pm

Darren,
You should know better than to say its a ten minute job. You have gone and tempted that fate thing again.
As mr._floppy says
just what is the point of the Torx head
I hate those things with a passion had a citroen xantia for a while and everything was fixed with them >:( >:(

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by Paul B on Apr 16^th, 2006, 9:27pm

on 04/16/06 at 20:55:28, sector-9 wrote:

One last job to do: replace the gearbox switch so the reversing light works - should only be a 10 minute job... ;)

You gotta love this guy!

This is going to be fun :D

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by cossie_al on Apr 16^th, 2006, 9:42pm

on 04/16/06 at 21:27:15, Paul B wrote:

You gotta love this guy!

This is going to be fun :D

[]
Darren I only wish I still had your enthusiasm

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by sector-9 on Apr 16^th, 2006, 10:08pm

Whilst I'd like to be able to book it into a garage and let them get oily, I don't have the money (or alternative transport) - and nice though it is, it's still classed as a banger in terms of age and value. In fact, all my cars have been bangers when you think about it...

So I fix my cars myself. If it needs the head taking off and valves replacing, or the gearbox taking apart and new bearings put in then that's what I do - or buy a s/h part and fit that. If it's an electrical fault then I get the multimeter out. If it's something I can't fix and can't live with then it goes on ebay for spares or repair and I buy another.

Not enthusiasm, just part and parcel of running big old cars; though it is very satisfying fixing things myself and knowing I've learned and saved money.

Darren

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by cossie_al on Apr 16^th, 2006, 10:32pm

Darren,
Please dont take my postings out of context.
I have much admiration for your attitude towards running/repairing your vehicles.
I also prefer to do my own repairs whenever my back problems allow. due to the nature of these problems I can no longer work and therefore money is tight. I believe this is something I have in common with many members of this site.
I have read back through my postings and I may have come across as a bit arrogant. if this is the case I sincerely appologise.

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by Paul B on Apr 16^th, 2006, 11:11pm

Me too... No offence meant here either.

I've had more than my fair share of problems just lately. Still do have.
Is just that "10 minute job" bit ::)

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by david_molloy on Apr 16^th, 2006, 11:26pm

Know the feeling well - staggering from one disaster to the other - patience certainly is a virtue.
I'm sure someone will correct me but my take is that torx is used as better / easier for assembly purposes.
Obviously manufacturers only assemble & don't appear interested in how it will come apart several years later when corroded.
Hope that better luck with next jobs
david

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by sector-9 on Apr 16^th, 2006, 11:41pm

No need for either of you to apologise - none of the replies have offended me but after reading my last post I see I didn't word it very well and you could think that. :-[ Actually I was secretly flattered that you would all credit me with so much patience so my last post was to sort of set the record straight. No hard feelings eh? I think we're all pretty much in the same boat, otherwise we'd have no need for this forum...

Darren

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by cossie_al on Apr 17^th, 2006, 11:19am

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by mr._floppy on Apr 17^th, 2006, 5:40pm

As Sector -9 says there is a pleasure to be had in accomplishing a DIY task that has saved you much moolah ( and you know the job has been done properly ).

As I approach my big 50 I was planning to stop squeezing my massive bulk underneath the car struggling with stubborn nuts and bolts , skinning my knuckles and getting cramp in my back, let the professionals do it I said . :D

I do, however, continue to do it . :-/

I'm amazed at male friends my age and younger who don't even know what a spark plug looks like let alone finding it and changing it. :'(

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by tintin on Apr 17^th, 2006, 6:08pm

i used to love working on cars (minis, triumphs etc full rebuilds), but i have to say the scorpio is a bit more daunting. the two tasks so far have been change g/box and remove inlet manifold/replace thermostat neither of which was going to happen on the street with imperial tools ;D

having said that, have now invested in metric sockets and spanners and planning/determined to do [/b][/i]something[b][i] myself !!

its not always money that decides if the car is going into the garage.....knowing what a spark plug is? check ! knowing how the little elves in the black box runs the car.... ???

hoping with the help of this forum i can start working on it again ;D

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by Bren_K30 on Apr 18^th, 2006, 11:13pm

on 04/18/06 at 23:05:10, Bren_K30 wrote:

Hats off to you though Darren... for not taking a hammer to the car!

Memories, memories, memories. And has anyone else ever tried to seal a worn cam cover on that inclined engine Vauxhall used in the Victor and CF vans. I did - - repeatedly, and then took the hammer to the engine. . . . . . And then took the handbrake off and let the _ _ _ _ _ thing roll down the hill I lived on.

Title: Re: IS THIS A JOKE!!?
Post by sector-9 on Apr 18^th, 2006, 11:54pm

tintin, if you just remember that the black box is a small computer dedicated to one or two jobs, you'll find it easier to cope (not understand, just cope ;D). Like all computers, they look at input from the various sensors, decide what to do based on a program, then give an output to things like the fuel injectors or ignition coil.

In practice, the computers themselves rarely fail - but they do need accurate information from the sensors to be able to do their job properly. Usually it's just a bad connection (common over time as vibration and damp attack them), or a sensor which has failed or giving false readings. Thankfully nearly all computerised systems can recognise when a sensor is blatantly lying and they'll ignore it - instead assuming a pre-set value for that input. Obviously some sensors are critical and if they don't work (such as the crank sensor which helps determine ignition timing) then the engine won't run at all...

Because it is still just a computer running a program, most of them can be diagnosed by plugging them into another computer running special software to interrogate them (i.e. OBD-2), or, in the case of the EEC-IV, you can get the ECU to flash a code which (with a look-up chart) tells you what the computer thinks is wrong.

None of this will make you an OBD expert but once you know what the computer is expecting to see on each input, and what it should output under that condition, testing suddenly becomes much easier. For example, when replacing the throttle position sensor you would rotate it so that the ECU sees 1.2V with the throttle closed (made up voltage, but you get the idea). If the ECU sees a higher voltage it thinks you are pressing the accelerator and it will increase the amount of fuel injected. Now if you were to check the voltage back from the TPS using a multimeter and found it was different to what it should be then you know to check the sensor or it's wiring. You'd also understand why it isn't idling properly - because the ECU thinks you've got your foot on the throttle. Of course, knowing what each sensor should be reporting is vital for diagnosing any faults in this area!

Darren

Title: stupid stupid fans!
Post by sector-9 on Apr 19^th, 2006, 8:41pm

Topped up my coolant today after fixing the leaking hose. Ran it up to normal temperature until the fans kicked in. Guess what?? They spin in opposite directions - one blowing in and the other blowing out.

When I was fitting them I noticed that one seemed to be wired up backwards. The red lead was connected to ground and the black one had 12V switched to it - ironically this is the fan that is running in the correct direction!!! }{ When I get chance I'll try 'wronging' the polarity of the other fan so that they both blow in the same direction...

Darren