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        General >> Problems >> Brake Problem
        
(Message started by: bizzay1 on Jun 17^th, 2006, 6:05pm)

Title: Brake Problem
Post by bizzay1 on Jun 17^th, 2006, 6:05pm

Took the scorp out this morning after it has been stood for a week, got to the bottom of the hill, started to brake and the pedal wnt straight to the floor aghhhhh
stopped it just in time and went round the block - everything seemed ok so we went on our journey (only about 20 miles) a good day was had for my lads 4th birthday and on the way home got a grating metal to metal noise from the front brakes, anyway got her home and whipped a wheel off and yes the pads had scored the disc (thought the ultima would have had wear indicators !)
Off to the motor factors who relieved me of £66 for a set of lucas pads and front discs, came home and fitted them went out for a test run and now I have to pump the pedal to get any brakes - is there something I've missed - do the brakes need bleeding after changing the pads or is there something more sinister going on ??

Title: Re: Brake Problem
Post by Spannerdemon on Jun 17^th, 2006, 6:42pm

Yes, you need to bleed the brakes. Get a simple One Man Brake bleeding kit, (mine cost £2.99), basically just a plastic tube with a gizmo that pushes over the hose to hold it in place. and an old jar. You'll need some brake fluid too. Remove the front wheels, and put the car on axle stands.

Go under the bonnet, and remove the brake fluid reservoir cap. Fit the bleed tube to one of the bleed nipples. Put the other end in the jar. Undo the nipple about half a turn. Give it a good spray with WD40 if it's corroded, and go gently, these nipples are quite fragile if handled roughly!
Now, go into the car, and gently press the pedal to the floor. let it come up again, and repeat this. You'll probably see the tube fill with a great big air bubble. Press the pedal again and then let it come up, and keep doing this, checking to make sure that the reservoir doesn't go under the minimum mark. Do this until there is no more air in the tube. Then tighten the bleed nipple, and repeat the job on the other side.

When you've done both sides, re-fit the wheels and lower the car. Then get in, and pump the brake pedal a few times. It should now be hard, and not have any spongy feel to it.

Go for a test drive and take it gently while you check your work. You should now have restored your braking again.

Finally remember to bed your new pads and discs in. Try not to brake harshly for at least 100 miles or so.
You'll find that they get progressively more powerful as they bed in together.

Hope this helps you. :)

Title: Re: Brake Problem
Post by Spannerdemon on Jun 17^th, 2006, 6:43pm

Forgot to add. Don't forget to top up the brake reservoir and refit the cap. :o

Title: Re: Brake Problem
Post by bizzay1 on Jun 17^th, 2006, 7:02pm

thanks m8, never heard of needing to bleed after fitting new pads, But then this is the first scorp I've had, and it would appear that they are unique !!

Title: Re: Brake Problem
Post by Spannerdemon on Jun 17^th, 2006, 7:24pm

Just read your post again. I thought you'd fitted new pads AND discs?
Anyway. If you had a problem with the pedal going to the floor, after leaving the car for a week, before you had this trouble with the brake pads/discs, then you need to check your brake system over, as it would suggest that you have a leak somewhere on the system or that the fluid level had got too low.
Bleeding is as described, and will take the air out of the system, but if you've got a leak somewhere else then the problem will return.
If your discs are scored, then they will need replacing anyway, as they will just ruin your new pads very quickly.
Check all hydraulic hoses on all four wheels, and the brake servo. Also the brake pipes under the car. Not sure if the Scorpio has brake cylinders, but if it has, then check those too. ;)

Title: Re: Brake Problem
Post by a900one on Jun 17^th, 2006, 8:02pm

It could be the seals in the master cylinder as I have never had to bleed the brakes after changing the pads and discs. Are you from Plymouth.

Title: Re: Brake Problem
Post by bizzay1 on Jun 17^th, 2006, 10:14pm

on 06/17/06 at 19:24:53, Spannerdemon wrote:

Yes I did change pads & discs, already had a look around and no leaks are aparrent

Quote:

Are you from Plymouth

yes m8

Title: Re: Brake Problem
Post by bizzay1 on Jun 18^th, 2006, 9:02pm

well I have bled the brakes today and this made no difference at all, the pedal still goes to the floor.

Do they do a master cylinder repair kit for these ?? I'll see if I can get one tomorrow and try that next

Title: Re: Brake Problem
Post by Spannerdemon on Jun 19^th, 2006, 8:17pm

You've got a serious leak somewhere if even after bleeding the brakes, the pedal is going to the floor.

I'd have a look under the car. Brake fluid MUST be dripping out. Locate that, and you will know where it's being lost from the system, before you go replacing parts which might be perfectly OK.

You may have a corroded or damaged brake pipe, or a loose nut on one of the brake pipe joints. Either way, there will be a brake fluid leak.

Obviously it would be highly dangerous to use the car until you've got to the bottom of this. Trace the pipes from the Brake servo, and reservoir, and if possible get someone to press the pedal repaeatedly until you find the problem. :(

Title: Re: Brake Problem
Post by sector-9 on Jun 19^th, 2006, 10:50pm

Don't forget to check the rubber hoses going to each caliper - make sure they aren't ballooning under pressure when somebody presses the pedal!

Also, is the ABS light lit? If so, disconnect the ABS unit or pull it's fuses out and see if that helps, though I would expect master cylinder seals are most likely...

Darren

Title: Re: Brake Problem
Post by bizzay1 on Jun 20^th, 2006, 9:49am

Well, I have had another good look all around, even with the mrs keeping pressure on the pedal, no fluid is being lost and can't see any tell tale signs on the floor, and not getting any abs lights, so this can only point to master cylinder I think

Title: Re: Brake Problem
Post by Dave on Jun 20^th, 2006, 10:13am

You could try clamping the rubber hose to each caliper in turn then pressing the pedal. If it makes no difference then I suppose master cylinder.

Title: Re: Brake Problem
Post by mr._floppy on Jun 20^th, 2006, 7:04pm

Far be it from me to inculcate your mechanical dexterity and expertise.......

( OOoooooh ) ............

....but you did correctly fit the correct pads ? :P

Title: Re: Brake Problem
Post by bizzay1 on Jun 20^th, 2006, 10:09pm

on 06/20/06 at 19:04:27, mr._floppy wrote:

Far be it from me to inculcate your mechanical dexterity and expertise.......

( OOoooooh ) ............

....but you did correctly fit the correct pads ? :P

very politely put but yes & yes ;D

Title: Re: Brake Problem
Post by bizzay1 on Jun 22^nd, 2006, 10:42am

on 06/20/06 at 10:13:38, Dave wrote:

You could try clamping the rubber hose to each caliper in turn then pressing the pedal. If it makes no difference then I suppose master cylinder.

I thought I would try this and if I clamp either one of the fronts the pedal is as I would expect, but as soon as both are unclamped the pedal needs to be pumped ???????????????????????

Title: Re: Brake Problem
Post by bizzay1 on Jun 23^rd, 2006, 11:57am

SORTED !!

I am a Muppet !!!!!!!!! of the first order !!!!!!!!!!

I put the spring clips back the same way that they came off - it was wrong, with the new pads and discs they were binding at one point so all along it was my abs trying to work on both the fronts at once and giving me sfa!!

Thanks for the help from everybody who answered and thought long and hard about it on my behalf.