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        General >> Problems >> Wondering wheels
        
(Message started by: Butterfingers on Jun 24th, 2006, 7:02pm)
Title: Wondering wheels
Post by Butterfingers on Jun 24th, 2006, 7:02pm
I have had a problem with my wheels, they tend to wander about when the road is uneven. When the road is flat there is no problem. When the wheels wonder on uneven road, the movement is reflected in the steering wheel. So please do not refer me to the steering wander section on the website as it does not apply to my car.

I have the standard ford alloys 12 multispoke with 225 50 r16 tyres. I have had the wishbones checked radius arms and there is no problem. Steering rack is also fine.  If I change the alloys there is no problem.

Does this mean I have dodgy tyres?

I have a Champro on one side and a Ventus on the other. I just want to get some opinions before I invest in new tyres.

Thanks for reading!
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by Kjetil S on Jun 24th, 2006, 7:21pm

Quote:
I have a Champro on one side and a Ventus on the other.


I hope you mean Champro at the front and Ventus on the rear (or vice versa). Mixing different tyres on the same axle is generally a bad idea, and probably not legal.

Don't know if it has anything to do with your problem, but it is still a bad idea  ;)
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by Butterfingers on Jun 24th, 2006, 7:24pm
Could be? But yes I have 3 Ventus and 1 Champro so they are on the same axle. Perhaps I'll get rid of both!
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by jonnycab on Jun 24th, 2006, 7:28pm
Mine does the same, especially in the lorry gullies on Motorways. I've checked the bushes etc & am convinced it is the tyres.
Maybe it's because they are cheap, or maybe because they are wide, or maybe it is uneven wear...or a mixture of all three factors.
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by Butterfingers on Jun 24th, 2006, 7:35pm

on 06/24/06 at 19:28:55, jonnycab wrote:
Mine does the same, especially in the lorry gullies on Motorways. I've checked the bushes etc & am convinced it is the tyres.
Maybe it's because they are cheap, or maybe because they are wide, or maybe it is uneven wear...or a mixture of all three factors.


Thank you, I'm glad I'm not the only one on this. I think it is because they are cheap typres. Like I said if the road has been resurfaced, there is no problem. But as soon as you get an uneven road, the wheels will happily follow in the tracks and do the steering for you.
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by RichardMS on Jun 24th, 2006, 7:53pm

on 06/24/06 at 19:21:03, Kjetil S wrote:
I hope you mean Champro at the front and Ventus on the rear (or vice versa). Mixing different tyres on the same axle is generally a bad idea, and probably not legal.

Don't know if it has anything to do with your problem, but it is still a bad idea  ;)

;D ;D ;D What a load of rubbish, That was in the days of crossply and radials.
As for the problem it even happens on my wagon and that is not fitted with cheap tyres, I would tend to say it is more to do with the width of the tyre.
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by Kjetil S on Jun 24th, 2006, 8:00pm
It IS illegal in Norway, and I'm pretty sure someone here said it was in the UK as well, and it is for a reason, so no, I don't think it's rubbish.

Different tyre types behave differently on slippery surfaces, which can lead to interesting situations. In addition, the tyres will probably not wear down equally on both sides (if they were of equal depth to begin with that is), wich can cause even more interesting problems.
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by jonnycab on Jun 24th, 2006, 9:32pm
Tyre width does seem to be a major cause of wander especially on uneven roads, but I think it is also a lot to do with the quality of the tyre.
I usually pay around £50 (not a fortune) a tyre & when they are new they are fine, but when they start wearing I always seem to be correcting the steering on uneven roads.
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by Pam and John on Jun 24th, 2006, 11:44pm
Have always put it down to width of tyres and 'tram lining' effect. Running 225 x 50 x 16 's on both the Scorp and the Probe (pity the wheels arn't interchangeable  :( ), happens in the same places on both cars  
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by mr._floppy on Jun 25th, 2006, 1:09am
Do you mean  on  uneven  roads    (  or  raised   white  lines )     the  steering wheel    tends   to  want  to    wander  off    the  straight  and   has  to   be constantly   checked ?

   Sorry,   but  it  does  sound  like      wishbone /  bush /  lower  balljoint        Barney  Rubble.  :(  


                    However   much   you    lever  or   crowbar   these    components  ( on the ground or in the air  )     trying    to find  wear  or  movement    ( even  in  the   MOT   test ),    you    can   never   replicate   the     huge   forces      that    they   are   subject    to    in   normal   usage.

 A couple of   mm  free play   on   these  components    can  affect  the   steering  and tyre wear   but   is   very  difficult  to  detect    on  cursory   inspection.

         
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by km449 on Jun 25th, 2006, 7:15am
My Scorp has 225's, recently replaced all round, and the car still tram lines on the lorry motorway depressions just like before.
My wife's "car" runs on 195's and they arent affected by the lorry tracks at all. (Knew there must be something good about her X90!!)
Should we get an award for supposedly owning two of the uglies of the world   ;D
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 25th, 2006, 8:56am
hi there


Quote:
If I change the alloys there is no problem


what do you mean? do you have other wheels or you swap the wheels front to back? ???


re the width. yes they are a bit wide, but not that wide. my car doesn't suffer too much from tramlining. road need to be really bad for it to happen (affects wife's honda as well). i'm one for same type of tyres on the axles and make sure there is no movement in the wishbones (there's only 0.5mm play on these from new;)). i've replaced the wishbones, roll bar bushes and the drop links on mine.
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by john_smiffy on Jun 25th, 2006, 9:35am
i drive a 44 ton truck and tramlines affect it with a fullload on

i think some of the wandering on scorpio is tyre pressure
mine had 29psi all round took it up to 32psi front 34psi rear
and it seems to have cured it had it up to 120mph all ok
when i tow my caravan i go to 34fr & 46rear and it seem ok
look on side wall and it will tell you max pressure and weight per tyre try it at max and drop 2psi till it feels better
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by surfcoast4 on Jun 25th, 2006, 10:01am
nicely put John, hi all, yes you,ll find its a combination of both too low a tyre pressure and the extra width tyres, I've found, particularly in Aus. were driving is quite a pleasure generally with lots of open space, that running 32psi allround gives about the best combination of Road holding, tyre wear and BETTER fuel economy....slightly harder ride but worth the extra savings and road handling.
cheers Andy.
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 25th, 2006, 11:56am
hi there

just a word of warning on taking the pressure up to the stated max of your tyre.

the max pressure is at cold. running will take the pressure up by at least 4psi.

check with your handbook for correct ford pressures and then maybe increase pressure by steps of 1psi until you find a pressure you like. i run at 31psi on the front and 29psi on the rear of my estate without any issues (and i don't hang around! ;)), checked from cold.

all my own opinion.  :)
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by Butterfingers on Jun 25th, 2006, 2:03pm

on 06/25/06 at 08:56:49, scorpio_man wrote:
hi there


what do you mean? do you have other wheels or you swap the wheels front to back? ???


re the width. yes they are a bit wide, but not that wide. my car doesn't suffer too much from tramlining. road need to be really bad for it to happen (affects wife's honda as well). i'm one for same type of tyres on the axles and make sure there is no movement in the wishbones (there's only 0.5mm play on these from new;)). i've replaced the wishbones, roll bar bushes and the drop links on mine.


Hi,

Yes if I use my non ford alloys, all 4 of them, I don't have this wandering problem. The other alloys have 2 pirelli 6000's on the front and 2 cheap Ventus tyres on the back. All tyres are 225/50/16. I only seem to have the problem with the Ford 12 spoke alloys. And as I said I had the car checked out by 2 Ford dealers and its just passed the MOT.

So I think it is the cheap tyres on the Ford 12 spoke alloys. Anyway what is the correct size of tyre for the Ford 12 spoke alloy?
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 25th, 2006, 3:34pm
hi there

sounds like your wheels aren't true. :-/
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/alloys.htm

what about the tyres. are they on the correct way round (see that before)! ;D

re the size. yes, 225x50x16 is the size. tyres should be 'v' rated and above (think they were 'w' rated to start with).

hth
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by Butterfingers on Jun 25th, 2006, 6:47pm

on 06/25/06 at 15:34:45, scorpio_man wrote:
hi there

sounds like your wheels aren't true. :-/
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/alloys.htm

what about the tyres. are they on the correct way round (see that before)! ;D

re the size. yes, 225x50x16 is the size. tyres should be 'v' rated and above (think they were 'w' rated to start with).

hth


I'm pretty sure the FOrd ones are fine. I know the non FOrd ones have a flat spot because they are not as smooth as the Fords. I'm now thinking of getting the non Fords refurbished because they don't wander and flogging the non FOrds!
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by Ultima on Jun 26th, 2006, 6:18pm

on 06/24/06 at 19:53:44, RichardMS wrote:
;D ;D ;D What a load of rubbish, That was in the days of crossply and radials.
As for the problem it even happens on my wagon and that is not fitted with cheap tyres, I would tend to say it is more to do with the width of the tyre.


Unless you have no differential is is a VERY bad idea to have different tyres on the same axle (this applies to front or rear on a RWD car or just front on a FWD car). Ask my wife, her MX5 has 1 original panel left (but she's not crashed it since I made her change all the tyres to the same type)

If the driving (and/or steering) wheels have different levels of grip they exert different amounts of friction and can make your vehicle pull to one side. This same thing also causes problems when accelerating, braking or cornering.
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by Butterfingers on Jun 28th, 2006, 8:22pm
Well guess what. I've aligned up with the same tyre on each axle and the problem has totally disappered. I can't believe it has been that simple for something that has caused so much grief. Yes tramlining does happen but not like it was before with the car just going off in its own direction. Many thanks for all the responses!
Title: Re: Wondering wheels
Post by howiedintheplace on Jul 22nd, 2006, 11:51pm
At speed & on high performance cars mixed makes of tyres can affect braking & handling.

Some tyres have hard compounds others soft & different types of constrution.

The harder you drive the car the more noticable the problem.

Only legal requirement in the U.K is that the tyres are of the same size, type on each axle & road worthy.


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