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        General >> Problems >> timing 2.3 ultima
        
(Message started by: pedropedro on Jul 6^th, 2006, 10:52am)

Title: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by pedropedro on Jul 6^th, 2006, 10:52am

I have a problem with pinking and suspect the timing chain has been fitted incorrectly..had head removed recently

does anyone know what the timing advance should be at idle please..mine reads approx 21-27 degrees / fluctuating ..that seems too high...advice appreciated thanks

fuel rail is ok replaced fuel valve / filter etc

Title: Re: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by RichardMS on Jul 6^th, 2006, 1:23pm

I would suspect an air leak perhaps on your inlet manifold first, If the chain had been fitted wrong, even by one tooth then you would have major problems, Not sure of what the advance should be though sorry.
Have you ever cleaned the MAF ?, Not sure what else controls the mixture of the top of my head but others will tell you I expect :)

Title: Re: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by pedropedro on Jul 6^th, 2006, 1:49pm

there are no leaks ..maf is fine, no codes on obd other than lean..but that would come up if timing were wrong.

i am not sure if they have put chain back one cog out how significant problems would be...mine idles badly pinks at speed

timing goes to 30 degrees advance when at 1000 rpm...
tks for input

Title: Re: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by Kjetil S on Jul 6^th, 2006, 2:29pm

I believe it can also be caused by a bad fuel pressure regulator or fuel filter/pump (latter being very unlikely).

Iirc, the regulator is relatively cheap from Ford, and the fuel filter isn't too expensive either.

Correct me if I'm wrong ;)

Title: Re: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by pedropedro on Jul 6^th, 2006, 2:37pm

changed both of those ......Ive pretty much eliminated the fuel side.......cant identify any air leak

I need to find out why the timing is at 25 degrees when idling and why the fuel trim goes to +25% at 1000rpm

it was fine before the head was taken off....

Title: Re: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by RichardMS on Jul 6^th, 2006, 3:29pm

How about the ICV :-/
I think one cog out would make the valves just touch the pistons and you know what problems that would cause.
[edit]Just remembered that I had the same sort of problems on the 2.0 16V, Suspected ICV but found the EGR was loose and when I went to tighten it the pipe gave up, there were at least three hairline cracks in it[/edit]

Title: Re: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by pedropedro on Jul 6^th, 2006, 3:44pm

icv is fine been cleaned 2- times ...that wouldnt produce the pinking problem would it?

Title: Re: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by RichardMS on Jul 6^th, 2006, 4:56pm

Not sure but the 2.0 still pinks and it idles rough sometimes but not as bad as before I found the egr pipe cracked.

Title: Re: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by scorpio_man on Jul 7^th, 2006, 9:30am

hi there

you spark advance seems fine (can't check just now as my wife has my car).

is it the VE software you're using? if so, run a 5 minute scan with a warm engine and email me the 3 files and i'll have a look at it.

you need to scan the following:
MAF
RPM
LAMBDA SENSOR (only pre cat on the 2.3)
LTFT
leave it at idle, but every 60 sec, give it a very quick rev to 2k rpm.
do this after disconnecting the battery for 20 mins and then running the car for a few days for it to re-learn the values.
then from a cold engine, scan the ECT, IAT and the SPARK readings along with the above and send them to me.
do you get a hiss when taking off the petrol cap? was one of the injectors damaged when doing the head work?

get back to me with the scans, if possible.

hth
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/obdfaq.htm *note, you can't use anyboard any more.

Title: Re: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by pedropedro on Jul 7^th, 2006, 5:02pm

Hi Scorpio man

i have run obd check I dont have the ve software ...but it works well what I have ....only fault code is running lean ,,,the ltft are up to 25%..........the maf gives the right numbers I checked with you on that a few weeks ago.....there is a very slight hiss when undoing fuel cap i know its under a vacuum. I am ordering the cable and software from alex pepper ... appreciate help

Title: Re: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by pedropedro on Jul 7^th, 2006, 6:01pm

I have some numbers here from the software I am using re the pbd

at idle / engine cold maf = .37 iat = 140 ect =190
spark =26 degrees the o2 sensor is switching when i rev engine between .08 and .9 so that looks ok

the ltft sits at zero when idle and goes up to 25 % when rev goes to 1000 rpm

have unhooked battery etc last week to clear tables no change

Is that giving any clues?

Title: Re: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by scorpio_man on Jul 8^th, 2006, 9:23am

hi there

this is getting strange! normally, the ltft fall back to around zero when you rev it a bit. are you holding the revs at 1k? does the MAF reading change?

i wonder if there's a air leak somewhere on the egr system. not just the bits around the manifolds. try running with it disabled (plug the small vac pipe to the egr valve).

how's the sparkplugs? correct gap and colour? in nice and tight? loom wiring. all ok?

i'm scratching my head with this one! :-/

Title: Re: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by pedropedro on Jul 8^th, 2006, 10:10am

just checked system again...heres an overview

if left to idle it stays at 25% ltft then after 30 secs you can hear a solenoid click and engine drops by 150 rpm or so and ltft drops to 0%..also very lumpy running

maf goes to .7 at 1500 rpm, at that speed ltft is around 25% .
blocking egr doesnt do anything .........there isnt a vacuum on the egr connecting tube that I can hear at ant engine speeed should there be?? fuel cap hisses when opened..its had a new 02 sensor thats switching....it says fuel in open loop ...when should that switch to closed??

Title: Re: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by scorpio_man on Jul 8^th, 2006, 12:14pm

hi there

me might be getting somewhere (slowly!). have you read http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ho2smonitor.htm

while doing these scans was the air con/climate switched off (should be)? egr vac only happens at part throttle on the move (i think).

closed loop should be after about 3 minutes from cold. how's the power from the engine? could it be going into limp home mode? did you check over all the wiring loom incase it's dodgy signal?

Title: Re: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by jonnycab on Jul 9^th, 2006, 12:54am

scorpio_man wrote;-
"i wonder if there's a air leak somewhere on the egr system. not just the bits around the manifolds. try running with it disabled (plug the small vac pipe to the egr valve)."

I recently had pinking. I was advised to pull the small pipe off the egr & plug it, & it seemed better for a day or so. I then tried replacing the fuel rail pressure regulator....problem sorted!!.... or so I thought. ???....the pinking came back again.

I did notice that the pipe that goes from the manifold to the egr was loose at the egr end. I took the egr off & noticed that the brass sealing ring that seals the pipe to the egr was not seated properly & so was not making it air tight. Whilst I had the egr off I noticed it was very coked up & the valve seemed 'sticky' so I gave it a good clean with carb cleaner.
I re-fitted the egr with the brass ring properly seated &........... the pinking didn't disappear straight away, but a few days later & 500 miles, the pinking has all but gone.

It's worth a try :)

Title: Re: timing 2.3 ultima
Post by pedropedro on Jul 9^th, 2006, 11:12am

i will give that a try.......theres not much left now that i havent loooked at!!

thanks for advice