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        General >> Problems >> 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
        
(Message started by: Dave2302 on Jul 14^th, 2006, 5:36pm)

Title: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by Dave2302 on Jul 14^th, 2006, 5:36pm

Hi Guys,

I'm halfway through re - furbishing an engine and gearbox loom for my Cossie Estate ;D. No probs with doing it except the numbers had worn off two of the Injector plugs so I dont know which ones they are. I know they are NOT numbers 2, 3, 4, or 5, as these were still numbered. Of the remaining two plugs one has a Black / White trace feed, the other has a Black / Red feed. So my question is which one is number 1 injector and which one is number 6 ? ??? ? Can anyone help without referring me to a Ford wiring digram }{

Cheers, Dave

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by Meg on Jul 14^th, 2006, 5:57pm

hi-black/red=6 black/white=1 hth

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by Dave2302 on Jul 14^th, 2006, 6:02pm

Cheers, M8 that saved me getting my glasses out !! ;D
Dave

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by chaps987 on Jul 16^th, 2006, 6:53pm

HI , dont know if you or anyone can help, I need to put a new loom in, anyone know of any suppliers for an engine loom inc gear box for a 2.9 cosworth estate (1996) and what I should expect to pay for the loom

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by fordcos on Jul 17^th, 2006, 8:41am

loom no longer available but i was quoted £1400. so i just repaired the old loom at a cost at a cost of £100 at a local motor electrical firm.

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by rodhgv on Jul 17^th, 2006, 4:19pm

I HAVE RECENTLY DONE THIS JOB WHAT YOU NEED IS THE FUEL CUTOFF LOOMref 1003231 FROM BRAD SEWELLCOST ME £400 REACH BRAD @FORDPARTS UK VERY GOOD SERVICE FROM THESE GUYS

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by Dave2302 on Jul 17^th, 2006, 8:25pm

No, it is not the fuel cut off loom but the main angine and gearbox control loom which goes from the 2 plugs on osf inner wing, under edis unit and across the valley of the engine, then down the back of bell housing to the transmission and lambda sensors. I too was quoted £1400 but told no longer available. This is why I am re - wiring a second hand loom. Regards Dave

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by howiedintheplace on Jul 18^th, 2006, 7:58am

How you getting on with it Dave?

That loom is not the £1400 one by the way, it is only £350- £400 & was still around a few months ago.

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by Dave2302 on Jul 18^th, 2006, 8:28am

Hi Dave, not doing too bad, have only spent an afternoon so far and have almost finished the engine wires, will move on to gearbox ones next. I decided to basically replace all the wires in the loom, more for peace of mind than anything :). I have made up a "peg board" with ply and nails and cut each wire out in turn near to the plug ends and soldered / heat shrink a new wire into each one, using good quality heat resistant cable. Also considered using some heat resistant tape like exhaust manifold wrap to bind it all up in when I have finished. Regards, Dave

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by Dave2302 on Jul 18^th, 2006, 8:33am

Oh by the way Dave, Could well be interested in the details of that 4 litre Cosworth engine conversion when you've got time ! Its about time I built something quick again ;D The last project was a 2.9 24 V 4wd Escort conversion which was very very quick ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by howiedintheplace on Jul 18^th, 2006, 9:48am

Any pictures of that 24V Escort, you know Ford did a prototype one but I think it was only 2wd.

Yeah I can give you a link to the 4.0L stuff.

The heat resistant wrap is a good idea, that would make it 100% worry free.
Sounds like you are doing a good job. :)

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by Simmo on Jul 18^th, 2006, 10:06am

Dave2302, Is there any possibility of posting a few pics of the loom rebuild and the 'kit' you made up. It seems as time goes by this type of DIY repair will become more and more necessary and those of us less skilled may be able to glean some help and confidence from someone like yourself. Good luck. Mike.

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by Dave2302 on Jul 18^th, 2006, 1:47pm

Hi Mike, Yeah will take some pics this week and see if I can get them onto the site, (not very good with computers LOL :) Same with the Cossie Escort Rep the pics are in an album somewhere but I'll dig them out together with the Fiat 500 / 400 cubic inch Chevy that I built a few years back. ( Yes I was the loony wot built it ;D ;D ). Both cars were in several magazines and well publicised at the time but sadly when I got divorced about 5 years ago they had to go to raise some cash :'( Regards, Dave

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by Dave2302 on Jul 18^th, 2006, 1:56pm

By the way, does anyone know the finis code for the 24V Engine Loom, because it appears to me that Fords may be mis describing it. It would seem that the £1400 loom is the engine bay loom, and this is definitely unavailable, but RODHGV may well be right as I have looked on Ford parts computer and there is something called a fuel cut off loom available at a list of £343.81 + VAT. The finis code is as he states,1003231, so if this is the 24valve engine / box loom I think I'll just buy a new one and wrap it in exhaust manifold tape. I'm up to my ears building an extension at home this summer, cos we are selling up next year and moving to a Lochside plot in North West Scotland, so i dont really have the time to mess around, I just want the car right LOL ;D

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by howiedintheplace on Jul 18^th, 2006, 4:08pm

Dave yeah sounds like the one Ford don't list it very well so it confuses everyone including the parts guys.

Switch to part number instead of finis & it should be the same as the one in this thread.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin3;action=display;num=1128295432;start=9#9

Email me some 24V Escort pics as I would like to see that as I have lost my Ford prototype 24V Escort pics :(

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by Dave2302 on Jul 18^th, 2006, 7:34pm

Hi Dave, yeah will do when I dig out the albums and scan them in. Also, according to Trev at Ford parts UK he stocks the looms new at about £330, so Ive ordered one, reckon it'll stop the Girlfriend moaning that I'm working on the car and not the extension LOL ;D

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by chaps987 on Jul 21^st, 2006, 5:51pm

Can anyone advise on how difficult it is to replace the loom with the engine and auto box in place? The engine end looks straight forward but then the loom dissappears down to the top of the transmission, can thsi be done from underneath without dropping the gearbox down?? any help gratefully received chaps 987

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by fordcos on Jul 22^nd, 2006, 8:18am

hi you have to disconect the exhausts and lower the rear of the gearbox.

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Jul 24^th, 2006, 8:10pm

I've got mine off without dropping anything out. Had to cut one wire though that passed through a part of the box.

Don't know if I'll be able to get it all back in place though. If I have to, I'll reroute the wiring, rather than drop the box. That's just daft.

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Jul 24^th, 2006, 8:12pm

By the way, is a new replacement one better made than the originals? i.e. is the £400 one likely to do the same cracking insulation thingy all over again?

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by rodhgv on Jul 27^th, 2006, 2:31pm

:HAVING JUST DONE THIS WORK I WAS SURE I HAD POSTEDTHE RIGHT INFO REGARDING THE FUEL CUT OFF LOOM BUT BE AWARE THAT THE INJECTOR NUMBERING MAY NOT MATCH WITHTHE SAME INJECTORS SINCE FITTING I GET VERY HIGH TEMP' READINGS I THINK I HAVE MATCHED THEM UP WRONG THERE IS A POST SOMEWHERE THAT GIVES THE RIGHT ORDER BUT I CAN'T FIND IT

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by colinw on Aug 5^th, 2006, 6:39pm

just a thought for all you guys rewiring your existing looms ,if you are thinking of keeping cars for a long time it is possibly to re route these looms away from the v of the engine and take the gearbox loom around and down over the back of the bulkhead directly to gearbox,and then the injector loom etc can go in over the manifolds and down to injectors ,thus keeping it all out of the excessive engine heat.and also easy to check if there are any future probs.i did this on my old estate a cuople of years ago

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Aug 6^th, 2006, 12:00pm

Which way did you do this? I have a brand new £400 fuel shut-off loom coming from Fordparts UK and would like to keep it in good nick...

Can you take some pics maybe? Did you take it round the drivers or passenger side of the motor?

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by colinw on Aug 7^th, 2006, 7:16pm

Im pretty sure you will not be able to do it without serious modification to new loom.the original room is actually 2 looms that are spliced together in the v of the engine.but only by one cable which if i remeber correctly is a common live feed but you would need to check,what i actually did was to split the loomsd and route the gearbox loom around the inner wing across the bulkhead and drop it down onto top of transmission tunnel.to be honest it is probably not a worthwhile option with a new loom .but at time my failed new looms were not available,so i had to repair existing one.
i had a feelinf some pics were sent to admin of site ,but i cant really remember .and i sold car about 18 months ago

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Aug 10^th, 2006, 7:54pm

I suspected this. My old one has all the wrapping off. But the spangly new one is lovely lovely! Should be for £350 quid.

I'm going to wrap it in fibreglass aluminised heatproof tape at the V section, should be cool (!).

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by howiedintheplace on Aug 10^th, 2006, 9:15pm

It is a good idea to use a heat resistant wrap even on a new loom as it does get very hot in the V of the engine. Just to be on the safe side :)

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Aug 10^th, 2006, 9:19pm

Yeah, only worry is making the loom too bulky. I've got this stuff

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/VWPweb2000/sleeving/sleeving.html
halfway down, heat resistant tape.

Also got some plain aluminium foil tape which is much thinner and should reflect some heat away. Will see what fits best in-situ.

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Aug 10^th, 2006, 9:26pm

I also have to ask again if anyone can tell me the injector number sequencing. Which number connector goes to which injector?

Should have made notes/took a photo when taking it apart, d'oh.

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by howiedintheplace on Aug 10^th, 2006, 9:32pm

Well that tape looks more like exhaust wrap to me 815 degree :o

But will do the job or something like this

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=MSPORT&pcode=NIM14002

Dave.

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Aug 10^th, 2006, 9:42pm

I think that's like the other stuff I have. Basically shiny aluminium with a sticky back.

In my head the (thicker) fibreglass tape will have more insulating effect, rather than just reflecting radiant heat, it'll cut conducted heat too. Although I suppose the wires will eventually get to the same temperature, unless they can lose more heat by conducting out of the engine 'V' than they're absorbing in there.

Hmmm, I do remember the section of physics at Uni about this sort of thing was very tricky.

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by howiedintheplace on Aug 10^th, 2006, 9:48pm

The tape will make a big difference, I have used it for my turbo cars.

You lost the sticker numbers off your injectors then.
I can let you know tomorrow if no one else pipes up.

Dave.

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Aug 10^th, 2006, 9:50pm

Are there numbers on the injectors themselves?

The new loom has numbers on the connectors (old one didn't).

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Aug 10^th, 2006, 9:51pm

Love the idea of a twin turbo too. What units do you use? T25s? Is it a bespoke install? How does the rest of the motor/tranny cope?

This is probably worth a whole topic to itself.

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by howiedintheplace on Aug 10^th, 2006, 10:12pm

Oh yeah I forgot you have a new loom.
The numbers relate to the cylinder which the injector fires into.

& yeah a pair of T25's for the 24V & T2's for the 12V.

Alot is one off, crank is girdled, custom pistons with ceramic tops, dual oil feed crank etc etc.

I am using a Nissan Skyline GTR gearbox with variable front/rear drive adjustable incar.

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Aug 10^th, 2006, 11:01pm

My god. You're clearly a car modding superhero. Ceramic-topped pistons is pretty hip.

I wondered if it was just some sort of suck-through single blower Turbo Technics Capri setup... That's the sort of lazy thing I'd do. In my dreams.

Has it been in any mags? Should be if not. Can I see it on a website or somewhere? Sounds utterly pimping.

Can you remind me how the cylinders are numbered? I had it somewhere on the site, but can't remember where...

Cheers!

Al

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by howiedintheplace on Aug 10^th, 2006, 11:39pm

The engine is in bits at the moment, pistons are forged ceramic topped & teflon skirted with gap less rings.

3 6
2 5
1 4

Front

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Aug 11^th, 2006, 12:01am

Cheers for that, ace.

What compression are the pistons? How much power do you think? Got to be an easy 400bhp with 8psi or something? You got a big FMIC on there?

I'm very excited by the idea of this engine...

Just googled and found Boost Performance - some nice stuff on there for the 24V, eh?

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by howiedintheplace on Aug 11^th, 2006, 8:18am

Mike @ Boost performance is the guy who got the pistons made to my spec.
He calls them generation 3 pistons.

Engine runs 7 to 1 compression & takes 20 psi easily which is just over 500 bhp.
The 12V runs 7.25 to 1 & also takes 20 psi but only makes 350 bhp.

Dave.

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by Dave2302 on Aug 13^th, 2006, 4:17pm

Well my Cossie Estate is all back together now and has been running fine for the last two weeks with no gremlins at all. Best its ever run !! A new loom worked fine, and took about 5 hours to fit from start to finish. I let all the exhaust rubbers go and lowered the tranny removing the cradle. This seemed easiest. The only grief I had was that some of the plastic vac pipe Tee pieces had gone brittle and broke but I had a load of spare ones so wasn't really an issue. Will post some pics of the loom rebuilding jig soon, when i get digital camera back off girlfriend LOL, basically just a bit of ply 3ft by 5 ft with nails bashed in where the loom branches off. This way you can untape it all and replace the wires one by one soldering at the plug ends and heat shrinking the joins. To be honest though, now we know looms are available and the finis code, it is a far better long term repair to just bite the bullit and buy a new one. Dave

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Aug 14^th, 2006, 7:51pm

Hey Dave,

Can you tell me exactly how to loosen the tranny down? Which bolts to unfasten? Did you unbolt the exhaust or leave it in one piece? The fasteners on mine look so rusty that they'll need to be cut off...

I've been trying to put the two tranny plugs in with it all in place but I think I need smaller hands... It looks possible, but perhaps the proper method will be as quick.

Did you have it up on axle stands? And do you need a second jack to support the tranny and put it back up?

Cheers for any advice...

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by Dave2302 on Aug 22^nd, 2006, 5:56pm

Hi, Sorry not been on for a while, always go away weekends. Yes up on axle stands on all four corners, then you can use the jack to lower the gearbox saddle as you unbolt it. When you have lowered it un do the big bolt in the middle, and remove the gearbox saddle, you can get at a lot more then by reaching over the back of the tranny. Dont break any exhaust joints, (they are a pain unless new) as I said I just let all the rubbers go so it tips back with the engine a bit. The gearbox plugs are fiddly and I've got sausage fingers hands and still managed it !! Good Luck, and if you want quicker replies e - mail me LOL Regards Dave

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Aug 22^nd, 2006, 5:59pm

NO worries mate - thanks for that. I actually managed to do it without dropping the box - a pair of 12" long nosed pliers and some faffing got the two plugs in in the end with everything in place...

Super fiddley, but got there okay in the end...

Cheers!

Al

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by Dave2302 on Aug 22^nd, 2006, 6:07pm

And is it running ok now ?? I opened my big mouth too soon lol !! Mines ben running fine for a few weeks now but over the weekend has developed a coolant drip,drip, drip !! Its that awful hose from the thermostat that runs up betwen the n/s cylinder head and the block, so today I've ordered a complete set of underbonnet coolant hoses and a new stat from FMD, so guess what I'm doing tommorrow ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Aug 22^nd, 2006, 6:12pm

I haven't got it all back together yet. I had an attack of good practice, and am replacing all the seals - injector seals, intake manifiold gaskets, I'll do both rocker covers while I'm here to stop a mild weep, and also all the water pipe 'O' rings.

That pipe seems in pretty good order on mine, but I'll give it a real good check before putting it all back together. Is it the metal pipe itself that's leaking do you know?

I don't need the car day to day (just as well!) so I'm taking my time. If all the parts arrive in time I'll have it finished this holiday weekend. Woo!

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by Dave2302 on Aug 22^nd, 2006, 6:23pm

Hi, no not the metal pipe its the one that dissapears under the n/s head, at the front of engine, (goes on the ally housing which has all the 'o' ringed pipes) and I looked at mine, pulled and twisted it before putting it all back together thinking it was fine, oooooh how i wish I'd changed it, so if yours is still in bits, I think the hose is about 20 Quid...... need I say more.... :'( :'(
Must admit I dont use mine day to day, have a Land Rover Disco and a few Bikes ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Aug 22^nd, 2006, 6:38pm

Ahaha. I have half a notion to change the thermostat, but it looks like a pig of a job. 'Take off the AC compressor' indeed.

Once I get all this wiring and top end sorted I'll have a look at these other jobs I guess.

What bikes do you have? I have a K6 GSX-R750, which is awesome.

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by Dave2302 on Aug 22^nd, 2006, 6:53pm

Im not sure if the compressor has to come off but yes its the hose above the stat, but sod it I'm changing all of the rubber hoses now, I'm just fed up keep working on it.

Between me and my girlfriend we have 4 . She has a SR 125 Yam and is currently doing DA test as we got her a CBR 600. I've got a ZX 12 R with the usual Air box, Exhaust and Power Commander, awesome bit of kit, 180 BHP at wheel !!! Also (and more fun round the local streets) is my DRZ 400 Supermoto which I built from a pile of bits USD WP forks, Ohlins, Big Disc etc right laugh doing rolling stoppies, guess I'm gonna crash it soon ;D Anyway good luck with the Scorp and let me know how its going, I'm gonna go get some grub Curry probably, catch you soon regards Dave

Title: Re: 24V Wiring Loom Refurb, Help needed
Post by adowds on Aug 22^nd, 2006, 8:25pm

Smart. The ZX12 is a proper beast, although I still sort of prefer the Hayabusa. That new ZZR14 is mental though - crazy bad fast! Not much less power than a Cossie as stock, 215kg dy, handles pretty well too, wild.

Would you happen to have the part number/FINIS for that hose handy? I'll see if I can get it ordered...