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        General >> Problems >> 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
        
(Message started by: derekne on Jul 27^th, 2006, 7:48pm)

Title: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by derekne on Jul 27^th, 2006, 7:48pm

Hello all,
Are we sitting comfortably? Then ill begin :-/
Started the car up 5 days ago in the morning.
Started as normal in half a turn.
Pulled away and the car started jurking. Also leaping everywhere as I pressed the throttel pedal. The idle was ok with no warning lights. I put some cleaner in my fuel tank.
I ran it for the day.
When ever I put the pedal down to over take or go up a hill the engine would shake vilently. Then it would slow down to a stop. Even if I did 70 mph it would slow to a stop as if no petrol in.
I tried gas (lpg) It just backfires when I put my foot down.
I can drive anywhere for miles with little throttle. As soon as I press harder on the pedal it shudders.
My mpg is 43mpg :o
The vehicle has had new fuel filter. New wiring loom was fitted last year.Which I have checked. I have soldered all wires in the engine bay properly. I have even bought and used. Some heat shrink for my wires.

I Took it to a garage they said spark plugs. So almost £30 for NGK Spark plugs I put them in. It still shudders now its not barely ticking over.
It now appears to be missing. When the bonnet is open as it ticks over. The bonet almost shakes its self off the car. ???
Any advise is most apreciated.

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by solarpanel on Jul 27^th, 2006, 9:07pm

my 2.3 has just had 3 coilpacks fail,check the coilpack plug connectors to see if wires are not frayed and touching each other,my car ran on tick over but try and drive it shook all over the place.

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by jonnycab on Jul 28^th, 2006, 12:36am

It does sound as though the coil packs have seen better days.
When mine failed on my old Scorp, the symptoms were the same.....fine on tickover, but as soon as you accelerate then the car would seem to be mis-firing & holding back.
I didn't have violent engine shaking though, but maybe your coil packs are further gone than mine were.

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by aleosa on Jul 28^th, 2006, 4:27pm

Catalytic convertor/ exhaust blocked? Just suggestion on the off chance as I had a vehilce have similar symptoms and turned out to be a blocked catalyst.

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by sector-9 on Jul 29^th, 2006, 9:30pm

As it doesn't run any better on gas either then I think your problem is more likely to be related to the ignition system or possibly exhaust/EGR as mentioned.

Still, at least you've proved what the 2.3 is capable of if driven gently!!!

Darren

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by derekne on Jul 30^th, 2006, 10:16pm

Hello,
Thank you for your posts.
I have since bought 2 new coil packs which has made a big difference. However it still has a little lack of power.
But no missing now :).
I have drove the car into Team vally Tuning. The guy in there was great. He almost new more about my car than myself. going on about o not them bloody wireing looms again. }{
I explained then he started the engine. He took each injector off. One by one putuing it back and listening for engine change. Then Bobs ya uncle he said. Number 3 isnt working. Its not doing a thing. He changed over the injector leads and still nothing. ???
O no he said I know whats wrong now its your valve/s.
I suspect he said that something has. Worked its self down your spark plug holes. Getting stuck into your valve or valves. Maybe a bit of wire or a nut or something. However Im 100% sure this is what it is. theres a foreighn body down there. :o
It will need to be left for up to 3 days. Also aprx £300 to sort out.
Will there ever be a light at the end of the tunnel? :-/
Regards.
Derek

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by jonnycab on Jul 30^th, 2006, 10:26pm

Ouch...that's gotta hurt....seems a little far fetched though.
Do you recall dropping anything in there at all?
When ever I pull the plugs on my 2.3, I always drop the top cover back on....you never know :)

When the new wiring loom was fitted, is it possible a bit of the old wire/insulation may have dropped in there?

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by derekne on Jul 30^th, 2006, 10:47pm

Well when I bought the car 2 years ago It didnt come with a cover.
I bought a new cover. However I was advised by 2 independant auto electrictions. Not to fit the new cover. As it is increasing the heat, and not letting the wires air out (radiate the heat)
So in the winter I put the cover on and in the summer I erm...... :-[ dont.
In order to find out about my missing ect. I had the spark plugs in and out. Also the leads off and on. Checking and re checking. I have also thoroughly checked and re checked. All the wiring loom on the top of the engine. Back to the black oblong box.
Maybe I knocked something down there ??? Maybe I havent I just dont know. I know I had to strip wire back. Also heat shrink wires and solder conections.
Maybe solder or plastic wire sleeving or something fell?
This really is a sickner. This d**n car is going to be brand new before long.
However I was told it doesnt matter how many miles I do this wont change. Unless I stuff more down there. ::)
He said just drive it until your ready. This car still flys but not like it should. I have to rev out a little harder when over taking or trailer pulling. :-/

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by derekne on Jul 30^th, 2006, 10:51pm

O ......and also im off to scotland for 2 weeks. On monday possibly 8pm.So this will be a 174 mile little test for it. St Andrews East Fife.
Regards.......
Derek

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by howiedintheplace on Jul 30^th, 2006, 10:52pm

I think it's a yarn but a compression test will show up any problem in that area.

The injector thing is interesting.

That indicates a plug firing fault or injector.
Could be a partly blocked or poor spray pattern as you say the missing has stopped.
Bad conection to the injector or at worst low compression.

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by jonnycab on Jul 30^th, 2006, 11:09pm

When you changed the coil packs, did you replace the HT leads as well?

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by derekne on Jul 30^th, 2006, 11:17pm

Hello,
I have just gone out there for another fiddle.
With a torch. I swapped the injecter squerty thingy (3). Which was 2 tiny bolts. With number 2 injector. I was very carefull. Both inspected and seemed ok even the O rings seemed ok. Started up and tested it. Seemed exactilly the same and I took off the injector plug. With the engine idleing. It still doesnt work (do anything) on 3.
Also number 2 injector. I swaped with is working a treat still. Even with number 3 injector in. ???

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by derekne on Jul 30^th, 2006, 11:20pm

on 07/30/06 at 23:09:33, jonnycab wrote:

When you changed the coil packs, did you replace the HT leads as well?

No the HT Leads were replaced by myself with the wireing loom about 1 year ago from ford main dealer. They are motorcraft ones. With the numbers on them for the 1,2,3,4 banks. They have been inspected 3 times over and still look as new as when I bought them.
Regards
Derek

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by jonnycab on Jul 30^th, 2006, 11:21pm

I suppose you could drill a couple of holes in the cover to let heat escape :)

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by derekne on Jul 30^th, 2006, 11:28pm

on 07/30/06 at 23:21:02, jonnycab wrote:

I suppose you could drill a couple of holes in the cover to let heat escape :)

}{
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/derekne/pack.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/derekne/coil.jpg
Here is my coil pack from my 2.3. With the clasic metal showing through. Where the plug sits on to it.
I guess this is due to years of spark plug changes during services. It can be a nightmare to find as it looks fine until light. Preasure is applied to the coil.
Only this one (the front ) Was damaged however I replaced both anyways.

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by jonnycab on Jul 30^th, 2006, 11:37pm

Don't laugh...it's not such a bad idea :)
I was even considering it myself to stop the loom from cracking up under the heat :)

My front coil pack looks the same (connection visible), but the car runs fine apart from pinking.
Would a dodgy coil pack cause pinking as well?....I wonder......

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by derekne on Jul 30^th, 2006, 11:46pm

If you do make sure you take that top cover right off the car. Before you drill. One because of the wires ect.Two you dont want any crap. From the hole u made. To end up where my. Suspect forieghn body has ended up.
;)

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by jonnycab on Jul 30^th, 2006, 11:49pm

Obviously ;D

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by howiedintheplace on Jul 30^th, 2006, 11:52pm

Hmmm
How does the car run on LPG now?

Try changing plug number 3 & do a compression test on all 4.

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by derekne on Jul 31^st, 2006, 12:02am

Plug was changed with 2 and 2 with 3.
Still the same 2 works great and 3 doesnt do a thing.
There is no change what so ever with the engine. When I take any of the swapped leads. Off the number 3 injector. Lpg works great no miss or backfire which happened a week earlyer.However still a lack of power.
I must have about 90% of power.
When I take a plug off a good injector. Th engine almost stalls completely.
A compresion test will have to be done from a garage. I wouldnt have a clue. Where to begin or even what is needed.
I may ask up scotland if anyone is willing to help a Englishman. ???

Title: Re: 2.3 ECONOMY MODEL SCORPIO 43MPG
Post by sector-9 on Aug 4^th, 2006, 10:11pm

I'd be suprised if the valves weren't closing properley as they'd soon burn out under combustion temperatures (the valve seat also transfers heat away into the head), and on a four-pot engine I'd expect it to run a little rough too. Still, it would account for it being down on power even on LPG - but that can be caused by lots of things.

The injection system on the 2.3i is sequential so each injector is controlled individually by the ECU, however if it gets bad or no input from the cam sensor it will revert to bank injection (i.e. squirt in pairs) as the old EEC-IV did. This raises an interesting possibility though; if you swap injector wiring plugs around and it is working in sequential mode then it would become very rough and liable to stall as you'd have two cylinders not doing anything useful. The fact it runs no different with the wiring plugs swapped over would indicate it has dropped down into banked mode which could explain a loss of power...

Darren