Ford Scorpio Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> Problems >> 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
        
(Message started by: arnse on Nov 10^th, 2006, 4:56am)

Title: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by arnse on Nov 10^th, 2006, 4:56am

Hi,
Does anyone know the part no. for the wiring loom that goes in the V to injectors and sensors++? I am sure that it was mentioned on this site some time ago, but can't find it. My local FD quoted 2800£ for the entire engine bay loom, and that was the only thing they could find,,,
Thanks for any help.

Brgds.

Arnfinn

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by Dave2302 on Nov 10^th, 2006, 3:41pm

Hi Arnse,

Finis code is 1003231, and Ford describe the part as the Fuel Cut Off Loom a bit misleading, but it is in fact the Engine and Gearbox loom that runs from the plugs on the inner wing through the V to all injection equipment and down to auto transmission and Lambda sensors.

I did mine recently and it cost £285.40 from Fordparts UK.

Hope this helps, ;)

Regards,

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by arnse on Nov 10^th, 2006, 7:30pm

Hi Dave,

That's great, thank You very much! Now there is light at the end of the tunnel!

Brgds.
Arnfinn

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by North_33 on Nov 13^th, 2006, 8:30pm

Hi Dave

did you manage to slide the plugs down the top off the gear box or did you have to drop the box to connect this part of the loom

thanks Craig

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by Dave on Nov 14^th, 2006, 7:54am

It can be done without dropping the gearbox, not the easiest thing in the world but can be done :)

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by Dave2302 on Nov 14^th, 2006, 8:28am

[]

Yes, what I did was to leave the exhaust connected, but released the rubbers, and lowered the rear gearbox mounting to allow me to get round the gearbox.

My hands are a bit like a bunch of pork sausages so I found the extra 10 minutes or so to do this worthwhile. It also means you can get at all the clipping points to make sure the new loom is secure and won't chafe anywhere. ;)

Regards

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by arnse on Jan 20^th, 2007, 7:08pm

Finaly a little update on this never ending issue: To avoid a cash out of 7000 Nkr. I desided to double check all work previously done on the engine. No faults found! Removed spark plugs all cylinders and found all left bank (cyl 4,5,6) sparks all black. To much fuel is obviously going though these cylinders, also tail pipe is black and smelling of fuel. Again I like to explain how the car is behaving: At cold start all is fine untill warm. Then missfiring and no steady idle run and alot of unburned fuel at rear. At first I suspected wiring loom, but now I am very confused since it only affects one cyl. bank.
Any ideas out there? (just got the OBD 2 cable from Alex Pepper, but missing a lap top)
Any help appreciated.

Brgds.

Arnfinn

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by tintin on Jan 20^th, 2007, 9:19pm

hi,

sounds like the fuel rail pressure valve, there is a good write up on the site, fiddly but not too expensive....

cheers

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by arnse on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 4:19pm

Thanks Tintin,
but I thought the fuel pressure regulator was common for all 6 cylinders? How could a faulty regulator affect just one bank?
And why is it always starting perfectly when cold and struggle to idle and misfire when hot?

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by Simmo on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 4:27pm

In 'Fault finding' HERE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm) there is also mention of an intake pipe having been dislodged. Could this be a possibility?.

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by tintin on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 4:35pm

Hi,

not sure on the FPR, but i know mine was rich on one side, and had poor hot-start and idle. took a reading and it was overfuelling badly on one side (other side was only slightly overfuelled). changed the fpr and problem went away.

of course 2 months later, i had problems down that side with a blocked cat, replaced it and all was well again. so if its been going on for a while, spare a thought for the cats !!

Hope this helps,

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by arnse on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 10:41pm

on 01/23/07 at 16:27:45, Simmo wrote:

In 'Fault finding' HERE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm) there is also mention of an intake pipe having been dislodged. Could this be a possibility?.

Simmo, thanks for advice, is it the main intake pipe (from air cleaner)you are refering to? If so, that is checked and no problem whatsoever.
Tintin, problems just started after change out of that ba,,, cooling water hose that is routed from thermostat housing, going through Cyl head and block into a connection in front of "V". I have had all parts dismantelled again for double check,no faults found. I think I am loosing, and the dam nice car will still stay in my yard for a while, unless someone can pinpoint the exact fault.

Sorry for this never ending story, Promisse, I will never give up, and still hope for advice from UK.
(only six of these cars in Norway and profesional help is none existing)

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by Highlander on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 11:03pm

inlet manifold cracked?

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by tintin on Jan 24^th, 2007, 9:31am

interesting, mine had the hose to the thermostat done under the manifold), just before the FPR started playing up. i wonder if disturbing that area might cause problems with the FPR. if i had known about it, i would have got it done when everything on that side was apart ! all your symptoms of poor hot start and idle, overfuelling, match the FPR failing (have you checked out the write-up?)

Highlander is more knowledgable than me on these cars, so certainly worth checking out his idea of leaky manifold ;D

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by Highlander on Jan 24^th, 2007, 10:18am

Oh i dont know, you've got far more problem experience than me ;) (touching wood)!

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by arnse on Jan 24^th, 2007, 11:08am

on 01/24/07 at 09:31:04, tintin wrote:

What do you mean with checking the write up? I am not familiare with OBD and such things, but awaiting a friend with a lap top (I got the cable from Alex Pepper last week)
Can this overfueling be checked via OBD?
Cracked manifold could be a possibility, if so, that should have produced a hissing sound? All gaskets were renewed everywere.
That FPR is fitted on left bank rail if i'm not wrong and hopefully that is why only that side is overfueling? Only theories here, but maybe someday all these theories will pinpoint the fault.
Thanks,

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by tintin on Jan 24^th, 2007, 12:19pm

Hi,

There is a good write up on the site about the FPR....

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/fuelreg.htm

Yes, i got a scan on the car, showed LTFT (long term fuel trims) were well into the negatives, so the car was overfuelling that side to compensate.....was also knocking out the lambda sensor readings on that side. here is a write up on the OBD results....

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/obd2scan6.htm

hope this helps,

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by arnse on Jan 24^th, 2007, 1:00pm

Hi
thanks, I have a good feeling that we are closer to the problem now.
Await the scan and I will keep you all updated. (Away though for skiing this weekend, finally got some snow over here)

Brgds.

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by tintin on Jan 24^th, 2007, 1:15pm

ps mine failed at 95k (miles)

if you can, get the scan file and post on the OBD section, so everyone can see the results and give advice.....

jonnycab has been through a similar problem, worth checking out his posts.

FPR can be bought from www.fordpartsuk.co.uk about £90 i think. if you've had that side apart already, should only be ~ 3 or 4 hrs work

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by arnse on Jan 24^th, 2007, 1:54pm

Yes You're right, should not take to long. Already had "octopus" apart twice to double check my initial jobb, all visible parts ok.
Will post results as soon as I can, probably not before next week but it's all worth waiting for if that "beast" and all other with similar problems can get back on the road!!

Brgds.

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by arnse on Jan 30^th, 2007, 2:31pm

Hi again all Scorpio fans,
Done my first ODB scan and must admitt I am not very familiar with using this "hi tech." equipment. Hopefully I will learn as time pass and with a little help from all you experts in UK.
My first codes that came up was:P0131 "upstream heated oxygen sensor- bank one"
Next one:P1151, "lack of upstream heated ox. sensor switch, sensor indicates lean- bank 2"
Does this make any sence to my bank no. 2 (passenger side, UK cars)having dark sparks, and no 1 bank sparks is ok?
Any suggestions for the way forward?
At the moment unable to take car on a road test as I don't have battery available for computer.
Brgds.

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by tintin on Jan 30^th, 2007, 6:30pm

yep, similar to the codes i was getting. there are 2 pre-cat (upstream) lambda sensors and 2 post-cat (downstream) lambda sensors. looks like you have one lambda not responding (P0131) on bank 1, probably replace, and one indicating lean (P1151) on bank 2.

did you get the LTFT (long term fuel trim) readings? these would indicate if the car is trying to lean off the fuel because its getting fed too much through the FPR....

with mine i (read Scorpioman) noticed that after a long run, the LTFT was not too bad, but at idle when it couldnt consume all the fuel the LTFT went off the scale.

ps im only going by what i know, more knowledgable will maybe help more if you post the results in the OBD page

Title: Re: 24V Overfueling on Cyl 6, injectors++wiring lo
Post by arnse on Mar 15^th, 2007, 2:33pm

Update on this "newer ending" problem.
Cyl 6 is injecting fuel when ignition is turned on(without starting engine) This last for approx.2 sec. while fuel pump is running. Beleive it injects continious while engine is running causing all the unburned fuel in exh. (and in oil sump, now changed)
Moved lead to another Injector and problem follows lead. This means problem is electrical, but were is the connection here?
Is it possible to use OBD to locate problem?
Any suggestions for next step?

(will never start engine again with this kind of overfueling)

Brgds.

Arnfinn

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by mike on Mar 15^th, 2007, 5:13pm

Hello Arnfinn,
It is likely that the wire between injector 6 and the engine computer is shorted to ground.
According to the electrical diagram the injector multiplug has a purple/orange wire and a black/red wire. The former is always live (connected to fuse 37) and the latter goes to pin 99 of the PCM.
I suggest you check resistance between the black/red wire and earth. If close to zero you'll be left to find where the engine loom is damaged and exposed wire(s) are rubbing against metal.
Good luck!
Mike

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by arnse on Mar 15^th, 2007, 7:26pm

Hi Mike,
You are right, black/red wire is shorted, reading zero. But just a little moving of main loop in V ,1 mm is enough, gives a positive reading.
No doubt there is a short, but does any of the leads inside wiring loom carry any ground leads? No visible damage on outer loom protection.

Well , this must be one of a few 24 V Scorpios with faulty loom, is it still available?

Brgds.

Arnfinn

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by mike on Mar 15^th, 2007, 9:58pm

Yes, I think there are some ground wires in the loom for the sensors (ECT, ACT, TPS).
It gets quite hot in the V. The insulation will have disintegrated around the wires. I have no idea whether new looms are still available.
How about open loom surgery?

Cheers!

Mike

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by arnse on Mar 28^th, 2007, 3:44am

A BIG Thank You to all of you giving inputs to this problem.
Fault found to be cracked and earthed insulation were the loom turns 90' in front of "V".
Quick(and temporary) solution was to lift loom away and put some plastic insulation between loom and engine block.
Only fault remaining is a slight hesitation when moving trottle out of idle, revs under 2000rpm. above 2000 it just goes like a rocket!
OBD scanning said both upstream lamda sensors at fault, now changed and fault cleared. (no 2 downstream still at fault, will be changed)
;)

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by mike on Mar 28^th, 2007, 9:24am

Glad you sorted it out!:)
Just out of curiosity: how did you find out #6 injector was always on? Did you have to remove the fuel rails?
Cheers,
Mike

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by arnse on Mar 28^th, 2007, 7:49pm

Mike,
Since unburned fuel was leaking from joint under the cat on left hand side, it was obvious that problem was on that side. When turning ignition on there should be a pressure build up for about 2 sec. Put on a gauge on test point (air type) and no pressure! Removed sparks and turned ignition on and fuel was entering cyl 6 every time I did so. A lot of fuel in lub. oil, so had to change that as well. Luckily the cyl. seems to have survived!

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by mike on Mar 28^th, 2007, 11:00pm

Well done! ;)
Cheers,
Mike

Title: Re: 24V injectors++wiring loom, 95mod.
Post by petehull on Mar 31^st, 2007, 10:49am

Well done everyone,

Reading these threads is like reading a good book and it's always nice to read a happy ending...
glad it's all sorted :D :D

Pete