|
||
|
Title: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by slimspider on Nov 14th, 2006, 2:38pm I dont understand? I picked up my 2.3 ultima from the mechanic who had fitted a brand new inlet manifold. He told me that it was not worth continuing with the car it had overheated and craked the inlet manifold and now although a new one was fitted, the cylinder gasket head not able to keep water in..not a leak....but something about air gushing up. He said to keep the heater on and I would get home 2 miles... so I was prepared to scrap the car... ebay or give to breakers etc. BUT it is driving beautifully. I cannot face that this is the end... can't the head gasket cylinder be mended? If it is a big job it maybe that my mechanic as he is busy could not do it. How much abot would it be, Does anyone know of a good place near St. Albans that would / could mend it or am i missing something..... e.g maybe if I drove a bit more than 2 miles the head cylinder gasket problem would show up... there was no water leak that I could see....just a lovely smooth car with leather seats etc.... or am i being unrealistic? ??? |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by Dave2302 on Nov 14th, 2006, 3:06pm He didn't offer to buy the car off you did he ??? Also, I wonder if it had an airlock ??? Try going for a drive locally and taking water with you in case but kind of keep driving "round the block" so you dont go too far from home but clock up a few miles. If the level stays constant and it doesn't overheat then it simply had an airlock. Good Luck ;) Regards |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by slimspider on Nov 14th, 2006, 5:14pm Cheers - I will try... I see it is a problem of overheating? what would I need the water for? to put in where ....or for me to drink |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by Kjetil S on Nov 14th, 2006, 5:44pm To put in the expansion tank if it runs low ;) |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by cossieguy on Nov 14th, 2006, 5:48pm Does your heater kick out hot air? Just want to make sure that your coolant system is working correctly. Guy. |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by TiberiuS on Nov 14th, 2006, 6:49pm If the compression had gone or something I could understand the mechanic saying it wasn't worth it. But a head gasket/cracked head isn't the end of the world. Anyway, surely the car is worth more to you than market value which makes it worth it? How was the water level when you got it home? Keep it on quiet roads near to home as Dave says, clock up a few miles and keep an eye on the temp guage and coolant level; if the temp starts getting a bit high, pull over and check the level. Good luck ;) Regards, Bruce. |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by howiedintheplace on Nov 15th, 2006, 12:25am Well from what I can make out from your post it appear the inlet cracked & the engine over heated. Then after a new inlet was fitted the guy said the water was being presured. That is likely to be the head gasket if the engine has over heated but could be also a airlock. As said run it locally for a few days carefully & see what happens. A head gasket is not the end of the world. A garage would probably want £500 to do it thou. |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by Spannerdemon on Nov 15th, 2006, 7:14am If you have a friend who is good with cars, then taking the head off is not such a big job, and the head can then be skimmed. This would HAVE to be carried out by an engine reconditioning shop, it's NOTa job that can be done without the proper equipment. A skim would cost you about £50 plus whatever you paid your friend!! :D They usually like B E E R !! Look in Yellow Pages under "Engine Reconditioners". Skimming removes a fine amount of metal from the face of the cylinder head, so that it is perfectly flat and level again. When Cylinder Heads get overheated, they 'warp' and this is why air or water. or usually both, escape from the joint between the engine block, and the head, and you lose the compression. WHATEVER you do, don't cane the car in its present state. You will make matters worse. You've got some good advice here from other members, so see how you go with the air lock possibility first. Hope it's just an airlock!! ;) |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by slimspider on Nov 15th, 2006, 7:47am Thank you for this advice... I will run locally as suggested and see if there is a problem.. What should I look out for in overheating? is it just the temp gauge? |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by slimspider on Nov 15th, 2006, 7:50am Sorry just re read the advice and it is clear - temp gauge and coolant level.. is that the white plastic box on the left of the engine? |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by Simmo on Nov 15th, 2006, 7:51am Yes. ;) |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by Highlander on Nov 15th, 2006, 10:11am Just a note of caution.. I've seen a 2.3 lose water and cook the engine and the temp gauge never moved. Have you got the early model with the coolant level warning light and does it work? Don't trust the instruments on a Scorpio ;) check it regularly and be careful you don't get burned when checking the coolant level, it will be pressurised and release hot steam and water especially if the gasket has gone. |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by TiberiuS on Nov 15th, 2006, 3:45pm Good point, keep a close eye on the water level every mile or so, don't push the car hard, nice gentle drive on quiet roads near home. If you keep it all under check you'll be ok ;) Like the chaps say, just don't cane it, a new head gasket isn't the end of the world if you do need one ;) My Cousin blew the head on his 2.0 Mondeo, new skimmed head, gaskets etc etc, all done at mates rates for £550. I'd have my suspicions over the mechanic, wouldn't be the first to offer to take the car off of your hands and scrap it, some people in the trade never have to buy a car ;) Regards, Bruce. |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by slimspider on Nov 15th, 2006, 11:48pm Thanks for all the advice - it is really much appreciated!! I am away until Fri so will run it over the weekend. The mechanic is a really honest bloke so it may be that he is v busy but I hope it is an airlock... My wife has again started looking at other cars.. to match the 2.3 scorpio spec another car is £10000 at least! |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by Spannerdemon on Nov 16th, 2006, 6:39am Quote:
;D }{ ;D }{ ;D }{ ;D }{ If you say so!!! I've met ONE genuine mechanic in 42 years of driving. Beware!! Most garages have a 'sympathetic smiler' who will then proceed to ream you for every last penny that they can get out of you. If you've found a good garage, then I'm pleased, but as yet, and I mean this very kindly, you don't seem to know a lot about the car, and they WILL take advantage of that.....so be careful. Take the kids along, in some car boot rags, looking absolutely starving, and the wife with nine kids in a pram (use dolls), crying her eyes out. Watch their hearts melt!! ;D I don't think so!! |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by martin_rowe on Nov 16th, 2006, 8:57am spannerdemon, I take exception to your remarks about garages / mechanics, please dont 'tar us with the same brush', I dont dispute there are a lot of incompetant / untrustworthy operations about, but there are many reputable people / companies out there also. The whole garage trade is going through big changes at the moment with the implementation of BSI registration & technician registration, those of us who will then be able to display the 'Kite Mark' will give a guarantee of good, reputable service. Some on the site seem to take exception at good independants charging around £50.00 per hour, i think you will find that that is quite competitive, many main agents charge approx 11/2 times that, in fact I know of an Audi dealership down south charging £200.00 per hour. perhaps some people should think about what the company they work for charges their time out at, or call a man out to your washing machine, $50.00 for the first hour ect. please remember we are not all 'rouge traders'. rant over Martin. |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by Dave2302 on Nov 16th, 2006, 10:06am [] I spent years in the motor trade rebuilding auto boxes, during which time I never once needed to lie or sell a customer something they did not need. :) Part of the problem is that a reputable garage will usually have to charge more to do the job properly, and cover an element of staff training etc in its budget. A cowboy outfit will however fit second hand parts, not renew all the bearings seals etc within a transmission, and usually employ a load of very young in experienced "mechanics" on a low wage. {} Caveat Emptor.......... Go for a cheap job you get what you pay for. I know of places charging under £700 for a "Recon" Scorp Auto box, and I'm telling you all now you cannot do a proper rebuild and remain in business for less than £850. ;) Regards |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by howiedintheplace on Nov 16th, 2006, 11:28am Firstly it's so important that you keep checking the water & oil when you run the engine local to test it. It also needs to be driven hard for a period of time also as that sometimes clears the air lock. Anyway there is no point driving it with care & it seems O.K then go for a 200 mile trip & it over heats because your driving normally again is there ;) I think what the garage is trying to tell you is that the car is not worth the work. So in my book that makes him a honest guy. You have already replaced the inlet with new so you have probably spent £500 already. The gasket or cracked head at least another £500. In short your spending more than the car is probably worth. A garage don't take into account how much you like the car but just looks at the cost of it all. A dodgy garage in my view is one that says you need this & this & .................. Before you know it you have spent twice the value of the car & it still has problems >:( |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by TiberiuS on Nov 16th, 2006, 12:15pm No you can't. Some honest, some are rogues, as with plumbers, chippies, brickies, sparks... You get good and bad in all walks of life, we had a mechanic in London who was great, went down the road to another (bigger) garage once, got stung for £500 and car came back running like a tractor - never again. It happens to everyone ;) I've worked with a few 'qualified tradesmen' and I've seen some of the (bodge) work of kitchen fitters and the like. But again, they're not all like it just as some of the people I've worked for are more trustworthy than others. I'm still training but there are a lot of things I see which I wouldn't have if I was doing the work. Regards, Bruce :). |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by Spannerdemon on Nov 17th, 2006, 9:56pm Martin I take your point, but I doubt if many of us Scorpio owners can afford a rate of £50.00 plus an hour for garage work. Our cars are older models, which (generally) would mean that we don't have the money to buy newer models. The Scorpio is a great car. That's why we all drive them, but there is no way that I would hand my car over to any garage for a service. I just don't trust garages any more, and I know that many others feel the same way. I personally think that you get what you pay for, and in the case of the bigger dealerships, what you are really paying for is Sales Executives, Service Managers, Service Coordinators, Big glass showrooms, and all the glitz and soft music that goes with it all. That's why their prices are sky high, it's nothing to do with the quality of workmanship. In fact it's quite likely that a trainee will look after your car (but at full workshop rates of course)!! Several years ago, I had a Volvo serviced by a Main Volvo Dealer near York. The service cost me almost £500.00. The mechanic who worked on the car inadvertantly left a Torque wrench under the bonnet, which did over £3,500.00 of damage eight miles down the road at 70mph, when it dropped into the water pump, jammed, smashing everything in sight, including the engine block, on my car. Cost them not only a new engine, but radiator, bonnet, turbo, etc etc. Their immediate reaction when the car was recovered to them by the RAC less than an hour after leaving their workshops was to immediately deny all knowledge of it !!! Nuffink to do wiv us Guv!! :o It was just a shame that the nice new Snap-On wrench sticking out of the block had their mechanics name and the dealers name engraved on the handle!! I speak from personal experience built up over many years, and I'm sorry to disagree with you, but I have to say in all honesty that I wouldn't trust many garages to do a proper job on any car of mine. I've been lied to, misled, and conned too many times by garages to have any faith in them anymore. The main problem is that they book in say 20 cars a day. They have three mechanics. There is NO WAY they can carry out efficient work with so few mechanics in an 8 hour working day. It simply doesn't work out. A FULL service for example, will take even a good qualified mechanic at least 5/6 hours solid work. I now do ALL my own servicing. I then KNOW that the work has been carried out. I source the parts at Trade prices, and I allow sufficient time to do the job properly. No short cuts, no shoddy workmanship, and sadly (as some garages do), I don't mess with other parts to make a bit more work for another time!! We all know it happens. That's why garages have such a bad press. At the end of the day, it comes down to trust. And I don't trust garages. Been there, been bitten several times, and will not be going back for more. As usual, the bad apples ruin the whole barrel. ;) |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by Kjetil S on Nov 18th, 2006, 3:12am [] Last time I left my scorp with a mechanic was when I wanted to have the suspension angles checked and corrected. They seemed to do a nice enough job, but I still prefer to do as much as possible myself. I just didn't have the needed tools for this job. Cost me £82 though. |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by slimspider on Nov 18th, 2006, 8:49am Yeah - i know what you mean about mechanics but this is a bloke who does his own stuff from his back garden in a workshop and I feel he was saying stop now before it costs too much - in fact he said he would not want to do any more work on the car!! No offence as I do know next to nothing about cars and I (and expect many others) are very grateful for the advice given by you wiser beings on here..I wish I could help too in some way mechanically apart from Paypal of course. I am off to run the car now - even if it is a head gasket cyllinder for £500 I would carry on and I will be getting a bill for £240 (new inlet manifold) plus labour to fit in soon in any case so might as well continue. |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by Spannerdemon on Nov 18th, 2006, 1:29pm Top Man. Hope you get it all sorted out! :) |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by taliban on Nov 18th, 2006, 1:35pm i think we all have examples of good and bad mechanics, you learn who to trust, i generally find its the one off small garages that do the best work. i find that main dealerships require too much money to keep their show rooms etc looking flash. i do find the service industries in this country absolutely disgusting; we all warn each other about bad mechanics, traders etc which is human nature, but, the worst thing is we tell each other when we've had good work carried out! we all do it, people on here often ask if anyone knows of a 'good' garage in their area, surely this should not be, if you're having work done on your car, motorbike, house, etc you're paying someone for their expertise and when the work is finished, as standard it should be good, you've paid for it too be. we shouldnt have to jump up and down saying we've found a mechanic who has done a 'good' job, thats what they're meant to do, thats what we're paying for..... |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by Spannerdemon on Nov 18th, 2006, 1:49pm That's exactly what I have been saying. It comes down to TRUST |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by slimspider on Nov 19th, 2006, 8:38am Ok back for some advice - I ran the car on Sat and Sunday morning for about 10 mins each time... too short?? On Sat..All seemed fine.. I opened the water holder (white plastic box) but it all poured up and out like a champagne bottle when opened except a lot of steam etc. Also the oil seemed to be none existent - bit difficult to see on the dip stick. On Sunday the same thing... the temp gauge sat at halfway between blue and red both times. The water level did not seem to be going down.. in fact it rose over the max level so I could not see what the level was until I opened it - maybe expansion.? I guess the water in the white box should not be steamy though and should not overflow when opening the screw top?? Pretty bad? |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by Dave on Nov 19th, 2006, 9:50am Did you open the bottle when hot? Think it will spill out if you do that. Also the water level can go to over max when hot if it has a bit too much in, should be halfway between min and max when cold. Try siphoning a bit off. I overfilled the Scorp once and had to do that. Have you topped the oil up (if required)? |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by Kjetil S on Nov 19th, 2006, 1:44pm It WILL steam and most likely overflow if you open the expansion tank cap when hot. That is normal :) |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by taliban on Nov 19th, 2006, 1:47pm check the oil when the engine is cold, scorps hold a fair bit of oil and it takes a while for it to settle... |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by TiberiuS on Nov 19th, 2006, 8:19pm It's normal for the coolant to rise up over the MAX mark when hot, expansion as you say. If you take the cap off when it's at temp then the least you'll get will be a hissing of steam/air, leave it until cold before you touch it ;) I'm sticking my neck out a bit but if you run the car until it's at temp and the temp gauge behaves ok (doesn't move up/down rapidly etc) and the coolant level stays up then it seems everything is ok. If it is the head or gasket you'll get an oily film on the surface of the coolant in the expansion tank and what people call 'mayo' on the underside of the oil filler cap. Half way on the temp gauge on the 2.3 is normal. Good luck and keep at it ;) Regards, Bruce. |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by slimspider on Nov 19th, 2006, 9:39pm Well yes the water level did not drop in fact it seemed to expand and go over the max mark until I opened it... so if the head gasket cyllinder is damaged when the inlet manifold cracked then now it has a new inlet manifold - the water should disappear from the white water tank if there is a gasket problem? I will run it a bit more tomorrow.. |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by harry.m1byt on Nov 19th, 2006, 10:33pm on 11/17/06 at 21:56:08, Spannerdemon wrote:
Something with which I agree whole heartedly :) I have never as a matter of course taken my car to a garage for serving or repairs, I do almost all of it myself. It is well worth my while for the money I save, the satisfaction achieved, the convienience of not worrying about appointments and knowing the job has been done right. I can see it might be difficult for those lacking the facilities, whereas I have a good sized and well equiped garage to work in. Before I became so well equiped, I used to do my more serious work at one of those places where you can hire a service bay, but these don't seem to exist anymore. I run the Scorp, caravan, motorbike and a company car. During the servicing of the later I have seen the company robbed blind in charging for work that has not been done and by main dealers. On those very rare occaisions when I just cannot do a job, I take it to a local and have just the one closely specified job done. You can buy an awful lot of tools for the cost of a typical service and most services are straight forward, especially so if you know the vehicle well. Being able to do the work yourself for just the cost of the parts, puts a whole new slant on what is economically worthwhile doing. I buy my vehicles with the intention of keeping them a very long time. When I buy them I spend several weeks, as and when time permits going through them end to end getting everything right - so they become sound reliable vehicles. An older car means cheap parts can often be sourced from scrap yards, if you take some care over what you buy. |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by Spannerdemon on Nov 20th, 2006, 8:02am You are on the same wave length as me Harry. There is a HUGE satisfaction in doing it yourself, and KNOWING that the work has been done, without getting the horrendous bill, and WONDERING if it's been done!! :) |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by howiedintheplace on Nov 20th, 2006, 8:35am Slimspider. You need to run the engine more than 10 minutes as unless the gasket is real bad it won't show a problem. Also if the head is cracked it won't open up till it's nice & hot. Drive it at least an hour, some hard driving in that hour too. Check the levels on a flat surface when cold then after the run let the engine go cold again then check the levels again on the same flat surface. |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by slimspider on Dec 29th, 2006, 3:30pm I have been driving albeit short journeys over the past month and all seems OK but once about two weeks ago the water all seemed to disappear and then this morning I noticed steam coming from the front of the radiator when I got home and looked in the bonnet... wonder if this might mean it is not a head gasket problem but something to do with radiator and that was why the inlet manifold split in the first place? |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by george1 on Dec 29th, 2006, 9:16pm Daft question mate , have you had a look at your radiator check if it has warped?,also check your hoses you may have a split in one of them. hth. |
||
|
Title: Re: Cylinder head gasket? all seems fine?! Post by slimspider on Feb 24th, 2007, 4:07pm Have finally given in and after 7 years having to sell the old girl.... If anyone is interested the link to eBAy is below.. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280086805095 Hoping someone will be able to keep it going as I just had a brand new Ford supplied inlet manifold fitted in Nov 2006 and have done less than 100 miles since then. Reconditioned gearbox 2 years ago and new bumper 2 years ago approx. Has the dimming mirror in place... Radio etc working (although when I started it up today I saw that the display has now gone..damp?)... Got key fob but dont know how to reprogramme it when had a new battery and Ford wanted £40 to do it! Got red key too.. not sure what that is for.. New Brake discs and shoes last Dec. (2006). Air con not working.. everything else OK ish but bodywork not very good... not rust but lots of dents. Alternatively if anyone could mend the car for a reasonable fee and is near to St. Albans I would be interested in keeping it... |
||
|
Ford Scorpio Forum » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1! YaBB © 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved. |