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        General >> Problems >> Poor heat
        
(Message started by: macroy on Dec 8^th, 2006, 2:35pm)

Title: Poor heat
Post by macroy on Dec 8^th, 2006, 2:35pm

Hi,having a problem with my heater,it is not giving out much heat.I have checked the inlet and outlet pipes to the matrix and these are both really hot,could I have an airlock or is it something more serious.Any help please.Thanks,Roy. ???

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by Simmo on Dec 8^th, 2006, 2:46pm

Is the fan working ?. Have you done a re-set if you have Climate control? details are Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ccreset.htm).

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by macroy on Dec 8^th, 2006, 3:36pm

The fan is working and have done a re-set but still the same,no fault codes ,showing 00,thanks Roy.

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by Simmo on Dec 8^th, 2006, 3:44pm

Have a read of, and try The Johnnycab cure (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1142380998;start=15#15) ;)

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by macroy on Dec 8^th, 2006, 4:19pm

Thanks Simmo,gone dark now but will give it a try tomorrow,Roy.

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by macroy on Dec 9^th, 2006, 2:29pm

Tried as suggested and did another re-set but just the same is there anything else you may know of? thanks,Roy.

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 9^th, 2006, 4:25pm

hi there

1. blocked matrix.
2. air lock.
3. air flap(s) broken. think a member had one broken on his car (dj?)

when you flushed the system, was it running clear? did you get all the air out of the system?

hth

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by macroy on Dec 9^th, 2006, 4:35pm

Hi,yes the water was running clear but I have just put another post on due to the fact that when I was doing a c c re-set, number 53 appeared on the passenger side before I selected 50 and I was wondering if this was a fault code for the outside temp sensor and if this would interfere with the heat output from the heater,any thoughts on this? thanks,Roy.

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 9^th, 2006, 4:39pm

hi there

not sure. :-/ i would have though [HI] would have overridden the outside temp sensor. :-/

hth

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 9^th, 2006, 4:40pm

hi there

did the error code go away after the reset? or just stay there even after a couple of resets?

hth

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by macroy on Dec 9^th, 2006, 5:22pm

Hi,It showed 53,I then pressed the blue button which then showed 50,I then pressed recirculation to give the 00 and pressed ac and recirc together and then everything was normal no sign of the 53 very confusing to me.

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by Simmo on Dec 9^th, 2006, 7:24pm

Have you checked/replaced the pollen filters? Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cabinfilters.htm) as if they are blocked up they might be impeding the air flow thus preventing the fan from forcing enough air over the matrix.

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by jonnycab on Dec 10^th, 2006, 12:56am

It does sound like the matrix is restricted.
Hot coolant can still go in & out, but the veins may be almost blocked....so little heat. :)

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by macroy on Dec 10^th, 2006, 12:02pm

Hi and thanks for the help.I have just ordered some filters from Jetex so will fit these when they arrive but am now getting resigned to the fact that the matrix is restricted as Jonnycab suggests,I have read all previous posts on the subject and a new matrix seems to be the only cure. :'(

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by solarpanel on Dec 11^th, 2006, 9:30pm

been having probs with the heater in mine aswell,have tried "the jonnycab" twice with no luck,so took off the hoses at back of engine and put hosepipe to the matrix back flushed one way then the other way [twice]reconnected the pipes, took both of the small pipes from header tank off,hooked the pipe from rad to bonnet catch held the other one up aswell started to fill with coolant then started the engine while still filling with coolant,after 5 mins with the coolant level at min switched off engine put both pipes back on,restarted engine,checked level fitted cap, road test and so far super heater.

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by macroy on Dec 12^th, 2006, 1:55pm

Thanks,I have tried backflushing already but I will try it again the way that you did it and see how it goes.

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by jonnycab on Dec 13^th, 2006, 1:32am

I tried backflushing & forward flushing & eventually got some heat out....but it only lasted a few days :)

Some people have tried putting various household lime scale removers etc in the matrix & leaving it over night.....but as far as I know, it has never worked long term.
And because the matrix is made of aluminium, then any cleaner that is too strong may cause a leak :)

Replace the matrix....it takes a couple of days....but at least you will know that you've done the job properly & saved yourself a s**t load of cash, & it will last for as long as you keep the car.

But do it now, before it gets too cold.....I did mine in February this year....it was freezing & I could hardly feel my fingers while doing it. :o
I remember someone else on this site doing it at the same time & their quote was..."I pray for endless summers"

But if you've got a heated garage, then you're laughing ;)

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by Dave2302 on Dec 13^th, 2006, 9:57am

[]

Hi,

Yeah, I did all the other s**t, all to no avail. Fact is set on HI these systems will override everything and pump out air that is so hot you almost can't hold your hand over the duct for more than a minute when the matrix is new.

I replaced my matrix, (about £100 from FMD). A good day and a half's work, and it is now lovely, so hot I keep turning it down !!

Regards

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by cossieguy on Dec 13^th, 2006, 10:15am

Have a look at This (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORD-SCORPIO-HEATER-MATRIX_W0QQitemZ120064348087QQihZ002QQcategoryZ21654QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Hope this helps someone out.
Guy.

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 13^th, 2006, 10:31am

hi there

spotted this (http://www.granada-and-scorpio-online.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13100) on the g&s site. no sure if the scorpio is the same or not.

could someone who's replaced their confirm? :-/

hth

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by jonnycab on Dec 13^th, 2006, 10:56am

I can't see that breaking off the matrix pipes & pulling it out of a hole cut in the passenger side is going to work :-/

The pipes come out of the matrix at right angles & stick out....so how would you get it back in ?...

....unless I've missunderstood ::)

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 13^th, 2006, 11:01am

hi there

did seem too good to be true. :-/

wonder if it because of our climate control. is our matrix bigger, maybe?

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by jonnycab on Dec 13^th, 2006, 11:06am

When I bought my matrix from FMD, they asked me if I had climate control as it is a different matrix to a Scorp without it ???

Not sure if the size is different though....just a different design....more veins maybe ? :-/

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by macroy on Dec 13^th, 2006, 12:18pm

Can anyone confirm that this matrix on ebay posted by Cossieguy is the correct one for the Scorpio cosworth with climate control,according to the posting of Nissens spec,it appears to be.Thanks,Roy. ???

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by jonnycab on Dec 13^th, 2006, 1:50pm

on 12/13/06 at 12:18:41, macroy wrote:

It looks the same....couldn't be 100% sure though.

But as the guy says....he bought it for his Scorp but never fitted it & the original price tag of over £90 is about right.
Seem to remember mine was £108 inc VAT :)

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by harry.m1byt on Dec 13^th, 2006, 7:14pm

If both pipes are hot, then the only way for both to be hot is if the coolant is passing through the matrix without being cooled down by air flow from the heater fan. So that would indicate air control flaps, dud fan, or air obstruction to me.

If it were blocked to water flow, then so little water would flow that it would be cool at the outlet end if the air side is working as it should.

You say you have flushed it - was there a good flow of water through the matrix? If so this would further confirm that the matrix is not blocked.

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by solarpanel on Dec 13^th, 2006, 7:32pm

i agree,as i said mine was not hot and after flushing twice the matrix ran clear,as im breaking a cossie i cut the bulkhead out and took out its matrix,flushed that aswell,the pipes are about 8mm dia that the water runs through so if the water flow is good then it can not be blocked.

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by Dave2302 on Dec 13^th, 2006, 7:40pm

Hi,

Wrong Wrong Wrong !!!!!!!!! :'( :'( :'(

The water will still flow in and out even if all the vanes are blocked, cos the in and out pipes share a common chamber at the same end of the heater rad. Therefore both pipes will be hot even when its blocked completely. I know this cos I cut the end off my old one to check it was blocked before I put it all back together again. ;D

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by macroy on Dec 13^th, 2006, 8:35pm

Hi everyone and thanks so far for all your help.Now I am totally confused. ??? Roy.

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by solarpanel on Dec 13^th, 2006, 10:01pm

well i can not see any shared common chamber on my spare one

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by harry.m1byt on Dec 13^th, 2006, 10:07pm

on 12/13/06 at 19:40:24, Dave2302 wrote:

OK I can live with wrong :)

Seems a bit odd though, effectively short circuiting the flow in the matrix.

They do it in single pipe home central heating system - where a single pipe passes under each radiator and the water is caused to flow into the rads by virtue of the fact that heat rises and cold (water) falls. The hot water will flow through the pipe, even with the radiator blocked or turned off.

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by solarpanel on Dec 13^th, 2006, 10:26pm

yes i have worked on single pipe central heating and agree with you harry,with the matrix laying flat in the car the water has got to go in through the inlet down the pipes to flow out of the return pipe.

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by jonnycab on Dec 14^th, 2006, 2:47am

I flushed mine 3 or 4 times before I decided to change it.

After the first flush the heat lasted a couple of days...then after every other flush the heat would last literally minutes. So obviously there wasn't alot of hot coolant running through the veins & the blower cooled it down very quickly.

The hose would always produce a steady flow from the outlet, but unless physically held into the pipe then it would force itself out....so there was resistance.
Incidentally, when putting the hose pipe through the brand new matrix, there was no resistance felt.

The water pump, that does not produce as much pressure as a hose pipe, will not be able to force the water through the veins at the rate that a hose pipe does & if the veins are restricted then there is not much hot coolant running through them. So when you turn the blower on, it cools the matrix very quickly.

I found that the outlet pipe was only warm as long as the blower wasn't on. As soon as the blower was switched on then the outlet pipe would go cold.

I hope this all makes sense ::) :)

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 14^th, 2006, 8:57am

hi there

copied from the mailing list....

I flushed my heater matrix out using a tow way sink plunger Attach one end of the heater hose to the plunger (it will need a clip to hold it on) and trail the other end in a bucket of water You will obviously need to extend the hose to make it reach i used a short length of garden hose two clips and a piece of 15 mm copper pipe. Operate the plunger with a good dollop of elbow grease and that should clear it. You may well find as I did that there's a considerable amount of congealed anti-freeze causing a partial or total blockage. After I had a very warm winter.
>

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by wickedteen on Dec 14^th, 2006, 5:52pm

how much do you charge and how long do you take, cheers, lol

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by harry.m1byt on Dec 14^th, 2006, 8:22pm

on 12/14/06 at 02:47:58, jonnycab wrote:

Could that have possibly been a combination of narrow passages through the matrix, combined with loose debris in the cooling system?

Might flushing have worked had you flushed out the entire system thoroughly?

Title: Re: Poor heat
Post by jonnycab on Dec 15^th, 2006, 3:48am

Harry...I did flush the entire system, just didn't mention it 'cos it didn't seem relevant.

Also when I eventually got the old matrix out, I stuck the hose on it again & there was alot more resistance in it than the new one.
The new one had no resistance whatsoever :)