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        General >> Problems >> 2.3 LPG stalling
        
(Message started by: bernjmays on Dec 13^th, 2006, 5:04pm)

Title: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by bernjmays on Dec 13^th, 2006, 5:04pm

Hello, I'm brand new to this so please be gentle with me!
I recently bought another Ultima. A 2.3 Estate 1997 86K LPG.Returning from work, nearly home. I accelerated hard from stationary onto a roudabout, car had been on LPG but may have just switched over to petrol (but had only done 230 miles on 75 litres of LPG). There was a bang from under the car (or bonnet) and the engine died, car ground to halt. I started car up again (LPG gauge, Tartarini tec 6 showed two red lights) pulled away normally but engine died after 200 yards, at 200rpm, approx 30mph. I started again got a bit further, cycle repeated itself till I got home.Tried car again on SAT 9 DEC with fuse removed from LPG system. Cycle continued to repeat itself. Grateful for any advice including recommendations for good Scorpio/LPG garage near to Grays, Essex.
This web site is beyond awesome, many thanks.

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 13^th, 2006, 5:38pm

hi there

re lpg kit, contact autogas2000 (http://www.autogas2000.co.uk/). they're the sole importer of tartarini lpg kits. really good guys. ask for chris (owner). tell him you got his details from this site.

do you know how your system is set up? does it need to heat up a bit before switching to gas? or does it start on gas?

hth

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by bernjmays on Dec 14^th, 2006, 8:46am

Thank you scorpio_man I will contact autogas2000.
The lpg system is a Tartarini tec 96 (sorry) and cuts in, I was told, at approx 2000rpm, the stalling occured at approx 2000rpm (sorry again) which was why I took the fuse out of the lpg system in the hope of eliminating it as a cause.
Having now read more of the forum I think I should mention that the O/D light had come on a couple of times prior to the incident and also that the car is automatic.

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 14^th, 2006, 9:21am

hi there

i wonder if the car is trying to go into limp home mode. :-/ it would be good to see the results of a obd-2 scan. there's a few members down your way. see the meeting (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin12) page. i think it's barry from SU (http://www.scorpiounleashed.org.uk/) that has a lead. bit of a different 'feel' to that site ;), but most of them are ok.

will it not even idle for any time (not reving it)? i think it's the car, not the lpg, but can't be sure. :-/

let us know how you get on with autogas2000 and/or barry.

hth

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by bernjmays on Dec 14^th, 2006, 9:41am

The car when stationary revs ok above 2000rpm it is only when it gets up to 30 mph that it cuts out.

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 14^th, 2006, 9:50am

hi there

have you done any work to it? check anything or just left it and tried driving it?

this (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ccmonitor.htm) is the bit about LOS.

also you could start working through the fault finder (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm) page.

hth

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by bernjmays on Dec 14^th, 2006, 11:08am

No work has been carried out yet. I will try the following this Saturday & take car for test run after each step.
1. disconnect MAF and take car for test run.
2. clean/ swap MAF (will MAF from my 1995 2litre 16v fit?).
3.I was thinking about changing fuel filter, but engine runs normally when stationary.
4 I will also check fuel cutoff switch if I can find it.
5. Do you think I should refill with LPG and try that?

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 14^th, 2006, 11:26am

hi there

1. i wouldn't run with MAF disconnected.
2. 2.0 & 2.3 MAF's are the same. just change it over.
3. maybe for a later time.
4. car wouldn't start if it was off.
5. won't do any harm. you'll use when you're up and running again.

so, you have a 2.0 to 'steal' parts off! maybe try swapping over the coil packs as well. check the wiring (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm) to them at the same time.

hth

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by Glut4pun on Dec 14^th, 2006, 12:28pm

Hi if you suffered a loud bang you will probably have blown one of several pipes off (happened to me loads). Unfortunately I don't know the names of them but I will describe them as best I can.
1: The main air intake nr the accelerator cable adjuster push back on and tighten screws
2: A little further back just below the black plastic inlet manifold is a large black plastic box. On top of this is a double thin tube fitting .... push back on . More likely though at the back of the box a 15mm ish elbow tube fitting quite often blows off ...push back on. Good luck.

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by Glut4pun on Dec 14^th, 2006, 12:36pm

Sorry should have mentioned the large bang you heard is some sort of backfire ...LPG igniting in the air intake thus blowing these pipes off ... caused by spark plugs having too large a gap. Apparently you need a smaller gap size than normal for LPG and as basic a set of plugs as you can get ... certainly not platinum. Good luck again, John.

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 14^th, 2006, 2:04pm

hi there

you makes some good points there.

re sparkplugs. yes the gap needs to be a bit closer.... about 0.8 or 0.9mm on lpg, but you can still use the platinum ones.

just to tidy up......

it the system single piont? gas injected into the air intake? if so, check all the pipes that have been mentioned.

hth

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by bernjmays on Dec 14^th, 2006, 2:31pm

Thanks Glut4pun,
I will add your suggestions to list of jobs for this Saturday.
Thanks Scorpio-man,
I have spoken to Chris at autogas 2000. He says air leaks on inlet side likely cause of present petrol problem, but this is less likely to affect LPG system as it is 'stand alone' therefore worth trying a fill with LPG. Cause of original backfire may be plug gap not being 0.8 to 0.9mm (i.e. too wide at 1.0mm). He also said lpg system is Tartarini Tec 97 or 99, there is no Tec 96.Like you he implicated coils etc.

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 14^th, 2006, 2:40pm

hi there

let us know how you get on.

regards

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by bernjmays on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 9:50am

Sorry for delay in replying. No internet access over Christmas.
Glut4pun you were spot on, the 'main air intake' had blown off. I put it back on and car runs well on petrol. Unfortunately I cannot get the car to run on LPG. The Tartarini Tec 97 gauge shows red light indicating it is running on petrol. There is no display (not even a red light indicating empty) on the level in LPG tank display. I put 20 litres of LPG in so I know it isn't empty.
I think I may need to seek out a Tartarini LPG garage.
Thank you for all your help so far in this matter, it has been an uplifting experience.

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by scorpio_man on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 12:46pm

hi there

did you manage to swap over all the sensors (maf, etc)?

the 'bang' might have damaged one of them, the MAF's the one i'm thinking.

hth

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by bernjmays on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 2:12pm

I took out the MAF from the 2.3 LPG & from the 2.0 (which was new in FEB 2006) both looked very clean, but as I'd already bought the Wynn's carb & injector cleaner I cleaned them anyway. As 2.3 then ran as well on petrol as it did prior to backfire I abandoned further work on the petrol side of things. I believe the Tartarini Tec 97 LPG system fitted (single point injection?) ignores the signals from the cars sensors/computer including the MAF. I have to have an exchange (safety?) valve fitted to the LPG system to 'update' the 10 year certificate of conformity, this requires an empty LPG tank. The garage who are fitting the exchange valve have said they will get me running on LPG again to get the tank empty. (they seemed very confident that they could do this, hopefully at low or no cost!) I will acquaint them with the input from the forum and also get a quote for improving or even updating the LPG system to one that uses input from the cars sensors/computer which will hopefully improve the car's LPG consumption (last check it was 14mpg!).
I would be grateful for recommendations from members on LPG installers and also if there are any installers to avoid!
Thanks again.

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by scorpio_man on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 2:23pm

hi there

as i posted earlier, autogas 2000 would be my choice for any work on the system.

re mpg. my system is the etgas one. i get 18/19mpg @ 16/19 mph. on a run, i can get 27mpg @ 50mph+.

hth

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by bernjmays on Jan 8^th, 2007, 12:36pm

I took car into garage to check LPG system. The ECU and the emulator are positioned just in front of the battery and battery cover. Both were found to be wet and not functioning. I have put them into the airing cupboard in the hope that they may dry out! The day the problem first occured the roads to and from work were flooded and it was raining hard. I suspect therefore that the water was the initial cause of the problem with the LPG system.
Does anybody have a spare Tartarini Tec 97 ECU and emulator going cheap?

Title: Re: 2.3 LPG stalling
Post by scorpio_man on Jan 8^th, 2007, 2:02pm

hi there

the emulator for mine was £50! i went through 2 of them until i moved it and put it in a freezer bag.

good luck in finding them, but i think autogas2000 would be your best bet. no idea of costs. though. :(