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        General >> Problems >> Glovebox Light
        
(Message started by: ColinE on Dec 27^th, 2006, 5:42pm)

Title: Glovebox Light
Post by ColinE on Dec 27^th, 2006, 5:42pm

Hi Sorry another question, thats the trouble being new to the scene.
When I took the glovebox out to get at the ccm, I found the the glovebox light cable floating in the air, where or what does clip into I can see no where it can go.
It is just a bulb holder, but I have the (lamp shade) again off a cosworth, but I cannot see where it should fit.
1995 Scorpio Ultima 2L

Colin

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by harry.m1byt on Dec 27^th, 2006, 5:47pm

That is all there is to it - no shade, just a lampholder in a black plastic bracket which clips into the upper face of the glove box.

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by ColinE on Dec 28^th, 2006, 2:16pm

Hi Harry
I do not have any clip, does it just clip to the back surface of the glove box?

Colin

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by harry.m1byt on Dec 28^th, 2006, 3:13pm

There should be the two wires attached to a black plastic molding with a lamp in it and (not certain on this bit without looking) a switch built into the molding. There are no separate bits, the plastic molding just clips itself into a hole in the upper surface of the glove box - the right hand corner as you sit in the passenger seat. It clips in from above by grasping it with your finger tips through the hole.

It is a bit awkward, until you get the hang of it - so use a good light so you can see what you are doing.

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by ColinE on Dec 28^th, 2006, 4:21pm

Harry
Thanks I will have another look tomorrow, thanks for your time.

Colin

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by harry.m1byt on Dec 31^st, 2006, 11:31pm

I have just checked this out and...

The light fits into a lampholder the other end of which has the push button to switch it off as the lid closes. All you see when it is in place is the button poking out through a round hole in the roof of the glovebox. The light shines through a squarish hole at the side of the lamp.

To change the lamp you can get your fingers through the square hole to push and waggle out the entire assembly down and out through the round hole, complete with its two wires.

No shade, just the bare lamp in mine.

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by ColinE on Jan 1^st, 2007, 12:09pm

Hi Harry.
Yes Thanks I have found it, I managed to push the switch out, changed the bulb, with a 2.2w all I had, but its sorted.
But that was not the one I was talking about, when I took the glove box out there is a lead with a bulb holder on it just floating in the air behind the glove box, I thought this was the glove box light, so this must have another function, do you know, could it be a foot well light, I cannot see where it fits its live, I fitted a bulb which lights up, but did not seem to go out, I had to leave it as I got so cold, as I am suffering with pneumonia. and did not want to chance it any longer.
Thanks for your help, I had no idea the bulb was in the back of the switch.

Colin

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by harry.m1byt on Jan 1^st, 2007, 12:22pm

on 01/01/07 at 12:09:24, ColinE wrote:

But that was not the one I was talking about, when I took the glove box out there is a lead with a bulb holder on it just floating in the air behind the glove box, I thought this was the glove box light, so this must have another function, do you know, could it be a foot well light,

My best guess is that it must be the passenger footwell light, especially so if it is fitted onto a clear square lens.

If that is what it is - It latches up into a rather flimsy cover panel (extreme left hand corner) which bridges the horizontal open gap between end of your footwell carpet and the back edge of the glove box - in other words directly above your passengers toes. The panel is easy to damage, so perhaps someone left it out after damaging it?

The light should come on as you open a door (along with the interior lights), stay on for a while after you close the door then go out, or go out as soon as you turn the ignition on. I think I read that it also goes out after an even longer period if you leave the door ajar to save flattening the battery.

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by ColinE on Jan 1^st, 2007, 5:29pm

Hi Harry Thanks for that, I can only think its something like that, there is no cover on mine just the bulb holder, I got the cover from the cosworth I have been buying parts from, I will have another look, I also found two, plastic sockets for want of a better description on the floor right at the top of the passenger footwell, a guess about 6 inches apart, any ideas, maybe for holding the orginal overmats.
If you dont mind I have another question, I have asked on the forum but have had no answers.
Behind the glove box is a ccm central control module, as you look at it thgere are three sockets, mine has a plug in the right hand one and in the center one nothing in the left hand socket, but there is a plug (that would not fit in this socket) in a bracket and wrapped in foum,
in a clip on the left side of the ccm.
What I am try to do is find out why I cannot get the tailgate to unlock with the central locking, I have fitted a new solenoid, and also why I have the tailgate open light on all the time, the drawing on the forum says the wiring goes back to a ccm, I do not know if its this one or wheather there is another one some where, I can read the drawing but there are no placement drawing showing where the parts are.
Sorry to be a pain.

Regards Colin

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by harry.m1byt on Jan 1^st, 2007, 6:23pm

on 01/01/07 at 17:29:03, ColinE wrote:

Your description does fit the supports for the overmat. From memory, two at the back, and another two sockets at the front edge.

Quote:

If you dont mind I have another question, I have asked on the forum but have had no answers.
Behind the glove box is a ccm central control module, as you look at it thgere are three sockets, mine has a plug in the right hand one and in the center one nothing in the left hand socket, but there is a plug (that would not fit in this socket) in a bracket and wrapped in foum,
in a clip on the left side of the ccm.

If you check back through the forum archives, I asked the very same question about the CCM spare socket and the plug alongside it. I too got no replies. All I can do is assure you that yours is exactly the same as my own Scorp. My best guess is that the spare socket may be for internal motion sensors, which mine lacks. The plug doesn't fit the socket BTW, I tried it.

Quote:

What I am try to do is find out why I cannot get the tailgate to unlock with the central locking, I have fitted a new solenoid, and also why I have the tailgate open light on all the time, the drawing on the forum says the wiring goes back to a ccm, I do not know if its this one or wheather there is another one some where, I can read the drawing but there are no placement drawing showing where the parts are.

Perhaps you cannot unlock the tailgate, because the car thinks the tailgte is already open? Find out why it is indicating the tailgate to be open as a first step.

As the doors have an addressable multiplex units in them, my best guess would be that the boot/tailgate will also have one too - problem is that there is not much information to be found about the multiplex system. If it is wired to the CCM, then I would certainly be looking for a multiplex module for the tailgate and suspect that to be at fault if you have covered everything else.

Basically the multiplex cuts the wiring down to just two wires going right around the car, to control many of the functions, rather than using discrete wires - one per function. Data is sent down the wires from the CCM, addressing particular things on the car, with a module local to each item which decodes the data and operates the switches locally. I'm not sure whether the local module can send data back to the CCM as yet, but it would seem sensible for it to be able to do that too.

The CCM controls door mirror positions, seat positions, alarm system, locking and unlocking, receives the signal from the remote control etc..

Quote:

Sorry to be a pain.

No problem, I too was a pain when I got my Scorp three months ago and was trying get my head around its problems to sort them out, as well as work out the cars systems in general.

Keep asking, its the only way to find out the answers if there are any to be had.

FYI, all of my little electrical/electronic niggles have been traceable to oxidation on plugs, sockets and door lock contacts around the various parts of the car. Not one item of equipment had actually failed or needed any replacement and the list was quite long to start with. All it has cost me in parts is a couple of wishbone bushes at £35 and an hour to fit them.

It is a complex beast and to make it even worse, Mr Ford has made them not all quite operate in the same way, just to keep us on our toes ;D

Where are you, if you are not too far away from Leeds/York perhaps I might be able to offer some more direct help?

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by ColinE on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 9:59am

Hi Harry
First thanks for your help.
I am miles away from you, Basingstoke Hampshire.
I have changed the ccm, did not make any differants.
When I bought the car maybe three monthes ago the tail gate open light was on, the guy I bought the car from told me he had fitted a new battery, also that he had carried the old one on the back leather seat, so you can imagin the state of the seat, I found a guy braking a cosworth, and bought the back seat cushion from him,
I mentioned the tailgate problem, he gave me a switch and latch from this car.
So that was the start of it, when I put the switch into the spare latch it did not operated when I closed the latch, it appeared the plunger was to short, also I realised the spring on my latch was broken, I fitted the new latch with the orignal switch, no change, so I bought a new switch from Ford, fitted it, still no change, the guy said this switch was the alarm switch, so I started looking for another switch, after removing the white cam on the back of the tailgate lock there seemed to be a cage to take a switch, I tried the old latch switch for fit, it popped in ok, but the connection on the wire was wrong, I also found the tailgate solenoid was broken, so I spoke to the guy with the cosworth, I got the solenoid from him and a switch which he said fitted the lock cage, it does, for some reason someone had cut through the wires from the original switch to the connection, as it was a plug and socket the new switch fitted ok, I fitted the new solenoid, tried to fire it all up, nothing, I can open the tailgate with the key, checked the Russion drawing, which shows the wire to this going back to the ccm, there is a ccm behind the glove box, so I changed this, still nothing, so that is the stage I am at, at this time, I do not know if there is another ccm, or I have a wiring problem, I have checked where the wires come out of the tailgate to the body, in the rubber tube they are fine, I am not sure where they go from there, they do not appear to go straight down the body that side.
Someone mentioned in a post that there is a unit in the drivers side footwell that does the central locking, have not look there yet.
Happy New Year.

Colin

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by harry.m1byt on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 4:16pm

So far as I have been able to work out, it is all multi-plex controlled from the CCM behind the glove box, with 'out stations' in the doors, drivers seat (to control its positioning) and perhaps other places. For instance the CCM must have control of the sun roof, for it to be able to close it via the global close feature, but where is the out-station that does this? Multi-plex meaning multiple control signals for various things, all fed down a single wire.

There are no modules down in the footwell, though there are some above both the drivers and passenger knees up in the dash. I am not yet clear on whether the door/boot/tailgate alarm sensors are individually wired all the way back to the CCM, or if the signal is just fed to the local multiplex module and it then signals the status back to the CCM.

Just to make it clear, there is only one CCM and that is the one behind the glovebox. How the CCM behaves (its programming) varied from country to country and also upon when the car was built.

A single list of where all of these things are, plus a list of their functions would be extremely useful.

In the dash passenger side has the - CCM, ECU, PATS and the ABS (I think) modules. Drivers side has the cruise control, timing module (interior lights) and perhaps others.

By the sounds of it, you desperately need to find someone on the forum local to you, who knows his way around the Scorps systems and could perhaps eyeball your tailgate problem.

Another possility might be to take a look at a partially stripped estate in a scrap yard, where it is often easier to follow wiring and find out where various bits are hidden.

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 4:41pm

on 01/01/07 at 18:23:06, harry.m1byt wrote:

Your description does fit the supports for the overmat. From memory, two at the back, and another two sockets at the front edge.

So that's what the holes in my mats are for, eh? ::)

How do they fix on though? I've got the Scorpio branded woolen ones with 4 eyelet holes in but never noticed any fixings in the car itself...

No shade on my lamp either...the bulb's blown, I'm leaving it that way; had enough trouble with the glovebox lamp in the Capri...

Regards, Bruce :).

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by harry.m1byt on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 4:51pm

I think there might be some confusion of the term 'overmats'.

We were talking about the bit of stiff material above your toes, the one into which the front foot well lights go, its is also the material which closes the gap between the rear edge of the dash and the inside of the bulkhead.

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by ColinE on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 5:35pm

Hi Harry
No the sockets appear to be on the floor but on the up slope towards the back of the glove box, but I would say on the floor.
Its been to wet here to do anything outside, the rain when looking out of the window was like a waterfall across the road.
Still thinking about this dam tailgate, I did not ask the question, is yours a 95 car, do you have a fob, so could it be I need a fob to unlock the tailgate, or should it unlock with the central locking, I am sure I read some where the tailgate locking is seperate from the central locking. but this still leaves the problem with the tailgate open light on all the time.
Scorpio_man is having another look at it for me.
Just for information I ordered a 95 manual from the forum that finally arrived this morning, its ok for finding bits on the engine, but no good at all for electrical problems, I was asked for feed back so that is what I have told Gary.
Sorry missed the August 95 at the bottom of your post.

Colin

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by ColinE on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 5:43pm

Hi Tibs
I really do not know I guess the holes in the mats go over the upstands, then there is a button or plug that goes through the mat into the upstands, I only found them when looking for some where to fit the light thats floating about behind the glove box.
The glovebox light (bulb is in the back of the on/off switch) I pushed mine out to change the bulb, I did not have a clue that thats where is was, it was only talking to Harry on the email sorted that one.

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by harry.m1byt on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 5:51pm

On mine at least (saloon) and both of my CCM's are the same in these respects....

Press the remote unlock and the entire car is unlocked, all 4 doors, fuel filler and boot. You then have to push the button on the boot to open it, or you can press the button on the remote (see below)

Press the boot unlock button on the remote - it only unlocks the boot and does actually open it for you - the boot lid then automatically rises a few inches. Close it and it is locked again. Really handy if your hands are full as you approach the car, but never put the keys down in the boot and slam the lid shut :D

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by ColinE on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 6:01pm

Hi Harry
I am beginning to wonder if thats my problem, I need a fob to unlock the lot, rather than the key only unlocks the four doors, then you have to unlock the boot seperate with the key.
Thanks for your time I am sure we will get an answer some time.

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by harry.m1byt on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 6:16pm

Using the actual key in either door also unlocks the lot. With the car locked if I use the key in the boot lock, it only unlocks the boot and it relocks when I close it.

Start the engine and the boot locks itself, I suppose so no one can dip in the boot as you are stood in traffic or at the lights etc..

Use the key to lock it and hold the key a few seconds towards the lock direction and mine global closes, in other words all the windows and sun roof shut themselves. Hold it in the unlock position and it does a global open.

Title: Re: Glovebox Light
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 7:04pm

on 01/02/07 at 16:51:00, harry.m1byt wrote:

Indeed I think there is ;)

I'm talking about the original Scorpio branded woven overmats I have, they have a kind of eyelet hole on each corner...I'm curious about its purpose.