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        General >> Problems >> Starting problem
        
(Message started by: crop on Jan 20^th, 2007, 3:34pm)

Title: Starting problem
Post by crop on Jan 20^th, 2007, 3:34pm

Hi... during the last week or two my car (Scorpio ultima 2.0)
has had problems starting. Sometimes i turn the key and it starts first time others it may take 5 or 6 and sometimes it almost flattens the battery. It runs perfectly when started, does not cough and splutter when trying to start just turns over fast but no ignition, If it was petrol related would it not cough and splutter a bit when trying to start ? , if it was an ignition fault it wouldn't start at all ?. its like when i use the wrong key, that turns over ok but will not start but of course thats the immobiliser,....any ideas on what i can check...thanks

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by Simmo on Jan 20^th, 2007, 4:31pm

First thing is the 'state' of the battery. These cars require a whole load of power to start them. Do the speedo and tacho dials 'spin' right round at any time? If they do it is a sure sign of battery problems. There can be enough power to turn the engine over BUT not enough to start it. This time of the year with heaters,screens, headlights etc going often puts a drain on the battery which the alternator can't replace particularly on short runs, that or a failing battery will cause you problems. Does that help or ring any bells?. There is a lot more on the site but start with the basics. :)

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by crop on Jan 20^th, 2007, 4:38pm

Yep the dials do spin right round but they have done so since i got the car, they only do it when i first switch the ignition on (every time) but as i said they have done so since i had the car and up till the last week or so it started on the button no problems.

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by Simmo on Jan 20^th, 2007, 4:53pm

Sure sign of a failing battery,guess you've been lucky so far. Read THIS (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/battery.htm). Also check out the section under electrical concerns re 'flicking dials' Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm)

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 20^th, 2007, 9:47pm

Could also be gummed up idle valve or fuel pressure regulator. Battery is a good point though, my dials started flicking...I had no idea what it was until one day I had a dodo on the drive ;D

BUT, my experience with batteries (had quite a few on the Mondeo now ;)) is that car works perfect until the battery just suddenly dies overnight and in the morning the car won't go for love nor money ::).

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by philgood on Jan 21^st, 2007, 1:39pm

I would go for new battery as well! Flicking dials give it away.

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by macroy on Jan 21^st, 2007, 2:25pm

Same here,a new battery cured my problem.Roy

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by crop on Jan 21^st, 2007, 3:22pm

I have had the battery tested and have been told that there is nothing wrong with it, also i am beginning to suspect a fuel problem on startup. On this car would a fuel filter be causing the problem as although i have never run out of petrol i ran it very low a while ago as i could not find a garage open where i was until it had almost ran out.

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by big_neil on Jan 21^st, 2007, 3:23pm

my dials once went round when i turned the key and nothing happened , turned out a perfectly healthy battery but the positive terminal was slightly corroded, a quick wire brush and petroleum jelly cured the problem, never had a problem since.

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 21^st, 2007, 8:52pm

Bunged fuel filter would affect the engine at high revs too, engine would stumble on full throttle...you'd notice it on normal driving. More likely in my opinion to be in the area of idle valve or fuel pressure reg.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by harry.m1byt on Jan 21^st, 2007, 9:21pm

on 01/21/07 at 15:22:40, crop wrote:

I am beginning to suspect a fuel problem on startup. On this car would a fuel filter be causing the problem as although i have never run out of petrol i ran it very low a while ago as i could not find a garage open where i was until it had almost ran out.

The symptom of a blocked fuel filter is worst at those times you try to draw most fuel through it. I would suggest it would be most evident on hills and when attempting a full power overtake, gradually affecting more and more of the lower power ranges. Its demise could be gradual, or quickly become worse if there were a lot of sediment in the tank.

I once had one block up on the road, after a slight climb over 30 miles, to where it became quite steep. It deteriorated to the point where halfway up the steep bit it would not pull and I had to stop. It would still start and rev up fine, but not pull at all.

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by jonnycab on Jan 21^st, 2007, 9:27pm

So it's turning over but not starting....that would certainly flatten the battery & cause the flicking needles.

But the battery may not be the issue...as you say...it's turning over every time.

I would definately consider the fuel rail pressure regulator to be at fault.

I had a similar problem a few months back....the car wouldn't start when hot. It took 2 or 3 turns to start & once started, it was fine. :)

Ford charge £42 for a new regulator, but I've got one for a 2.0 Scorp.
If you would like it, to see if replacing the frpr does make a difference then pm me ;)

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by crop on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 2:37pm

Thanks all, it certainly takes more than 2 or 3 times to start ages in fact, is there any way to test the fuel rail regulator or any way like a carb engine to pull a pipe off to see what fuel is being pumped, i have noticed now that when she does start she is a bit lumpy for a few seconds so it does look like a fuel problem, but like most things i dont want to start changing things unless i know they are faulty.

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 5:36pm

You can hook a pressure gauge up to the fuel rail but I'm not sure where it goes on the Scorp. On some cars there's a check valve in the reg line which can cause problems...again not sure if the Scorpio has one. Pressure on a healthy system should be a couple of bars (imagine mains water pressure) so be careful ;)

Another cause could quite seriously be the air filter, not getting enough air into the engine at cranking speed.

Have you tried giving it a bit of throttle? Mabye it's the idle control valve sticking?

Plenty of straws to clutch at ;)

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by crop on Jan 24^th, 2007, 5:31pm

Update... The car will not start when the engine is cranking over at jet speeds, only when the battery is dying and today when it was almost exhausted does it fire.
????? high crank speed....no startee ....?????
????? low crank speed....it starts....?????

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by Simmo on Jan 24^th, 2007, 5:37pm

Have a read of THIS (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/fuelrail.htm) and see if that helps any.

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by crop on Jan 30^th, 2007, 2:49pm

Update.... If i switch on the ignition but wait for 30 seconds or more it sometimes starts 1st time or only needs a few turns if i leave ignition on for a while between turns, could this be the fuel pump ??? although as i said it runs ok when started.

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 31^st, 2007, 8:12pm

Still sounds like fuel pressure problems to me :)

New regulator is well worth a try, it only bolts onto the rail, causes exactly the symptoms you describe :)

Might also be worth loosening the fuel filler cap, if the vents are blocked you'll get pressure buildup making for hard starts.

Try starting it with a bit of throttle...don't floor it, just hold it down a bit. This should rule out idle valve/throttle body.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by crop on Feb 13^th, 2007, 2:40pm

Update. When we had that very cold day a week ago when there was an inch of frost on the car and the next day it snowed i expected real problems but, It started first time that morning and has started first time ever since. If someone could explain the logic in this i would be forever grateful. Just keeping my fingers crossed and hoping its permanent.

Title: Re: Starting problem
Post by ml on Feb 13^th, 2007, 4:46pm

Sounds a bit like a problem I had a little while ago. Traced it to the notorious fuel shut off loom. Might be worth taking a look at it. see here
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/dohcloom.htm

Mark